English now officially the USA's national language - 05/19/06 12:02 PM
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 04:49 PM
It still has a long way to go before becoming law, but it is certainly a step in the right direction because English is our national language.
I personally find it to be retarted that we must offer a driver's license test in 30 some languages in Ohio when not one road sign in Ohio is in any language other than English. If you want to speak Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, or whatever else at home, fine, and more power to you. But when you are dealing with the government, English should be the only thing accepted.
I personally find it to be retarted that we must offer a driver's license test in 30 some languages in Ohio when not one road sign in Ohio is in any language other than English. If you want to speak Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, or whatever else at home, fine, and more power to you. But when you are dealing with the government, English should be the only thing accepted.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 05:46 PM
Originally posted by red99sesport:
It still has a long way to go before becoming law, but it is certainly a step in the right direction because English is our national language.
I personally find it to be retarted that we must offer a driver's license test in 30 some languages in Ohio when not one road sign in Ohio is in any language other than English. If you want to speak Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, or whatever else at home, fine, and more power to you. But when you are dealing with the county at large, English should be the only thing accepted.
That's why we need this law. Lots of things in multiple languages here in Florida too. From driver tests to handbooks to building permit applications. This law will encourage all to speak, read, write in english, learn it before coming here, and save us lots of tax dollars.
This will also potentially save lives as recent tragic traffic incidents have shown in south Florida.
Anybody who portrays this as a racist or narrow minded law is an un-thinking doofus. Learning english will allow all to go anywhere in the country and be able to function equally well. People not learning english are just limiting themselves.
I've long been an advocate of diversity in our culture. Honor your history by celebrating your heritate, your homeland, your ancestry, but be AMERICAN first. None of this segregationist african-american, asian-american, mexican or latino-american CRAP. That is how the politicians keep us as adversaries. Be American, my neighbor, my friend, my countryman, a part of something bigger, then celebrate our differences and I will celebrate with you.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:02 PM
This is a formality. Who cares? What's the penality? Nothing, yaah. Its about as good as reforming immigration laws, they don't already enforce the current laws. The Government will still provide every thing in different languages to make other happy.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:08 PM
Most, if not all, States have adopted English as the official language. Yet this has not stopped the use of Spanish in many State government offices. I am not sure that this will help on the national scale.
Just on a side note, the whole Mexican immigration issue is interesting to me because I am an American living in another country. Here in Austria there are a lot of Turkish people, and people from the Balkans, and everyone must speak German. When dealing with anything in the government you need to speak German, if not they tell you to learn and come back. I was never for this kind of thing in the US, but now that I have experienced it I think it is a good idea. The problem with not learning the language of the land is that one will never become part of society as a whole. You find small immigrant areas in every country. Often few speak the country�s language and never leave these small communities. Pandering to these legal and illegal immigrants by offering government services in anything other than the language of the land, only gives people one more reason not to integrate into society.
Just on a side note, the whole Mexican immigration issue is interesting to me because I am an American living in another country. Here in Austria there are a lot of Turkish people, and people from the Balkans, and everyone must speak German. When dealing with anything in the government you need to speak German, if not they tell you to learn and come back. I was never for this kind of thing in the US, but now that I have experienced it I think it is a good idea. The problem with not learning the language of the land is that one will never become part of society as a whole. You find small immigrant areas in every country. Often few speak the country�s language and never leave these small communities. Pandering to these legal and illegal immigrants by offering government services in anything other than the language of the land, only gives people one more reason not to integrate into society.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:08 PM
Originally posted by We Todd:
This is a formality. Who cares? What's the penality? Nothing, yaah. Its about as good as reforming immigration laws, they don't already enforce the current laws. The Government will still provide every thing in different languages to make other happy.
we have become so extremely "pc" about everything, we are no longer "pc" about anything.....
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:10 PM
Originally posted by We Todd:
This is a formality. Who cares? What's the penality? Nothing, yaah. Its about as good as reforming immigration laws, they don't already enforce the current laws. The Government will still provide every thing in different languages to make other happy.
Yep. I don't see how it would ever matter anyway. ARRRGH!!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:57 PM
I think it's a good step, if it will pass. But realistically it will be meaningless.
More importantly, where do I get one of these?
More importantly, where do I get one of these?
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 07:57 PM
I think it's a good step, if it will pass. But realistically it will be meaningless.
More importantly, where do I get one of these?
More importantly, where do I get one of these?
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 08:06 PM
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Originally posted by We Todd:
This is a formality. Who cares? What's the penality? Nothing, yaah. Its about as good as reforming immigration laws, they don't already enforce the current laws. The Government will still provide every thing in different languages to make other happy.
Yep. I don't see how it would ever matter anyway. ARRRGH!!
Read my post from an hour & a half ago. I explain why. Wien Sean elaborates further & strengthens my argument with his experience & observation as an American in a foreign country.
If we require english, provide voting, DLs, medical & other benefit applications in english only, they have to learn to get along. They integrate into society rather than society pandering to them. And, as I said, by not learning the language, they are limiting their opportunities. With mastery of english (to some functional degree), they will be able to make a living anywhere in the US, not just in areas where there are translators or agencies making things available in their native language.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 08:18 PM
Originally posted by TourDeForce:Yes, IF that were to happy. Its not going to happen though. We as a society are too soft and not hard enough to enforce this to say "Toughh Chit, learn the language or else." It will be called 'discrimination,' just like I'm a 'racist' because I am not for illegal immigrants. In a perfect world, it would work, but it ain't perfect.
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Originally posted by We Todd:
This is a formality. Who cares? What's the penality? Nothing, yaah. Its about as good as reforming immigration laws, they don't already enforce the current laws. The Government will still provide every thing in different languages to make other happy.
Yep. I don't see how it would ever matter anyway. ARRRGH!!
Read my post from an hour & a half ago. I explain why. Wien Sean elaborates further & strengthens my argument with his experience & observation as an American in a foreign country.
If we require english, provide voting, DLs, medical & other benefit applications in english only, they have to learn to get along. They integrate into society rather than society pandering to them. And, as I said, by not learning the language, they are limiting their opportunities. With mastery of english (to some functional degree), they will be able to make a living anywhere in the US, not just in areas where there are translators or agencies making things available in their native language.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 08:31 PM
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:Yes, IF that were to happy. Its not going to happen though. We as a society are too soft and not hard enough to enforce this to say "Toughh Chit, learn the language or else." It will be called 'discrimination,' just like I'm a 'racist' because I am not for illegal immigrants. In a perfect world, it would work, but it ain't perfect.
Read my post from an hour & a half ago. I explain why. Wien Sean elaborates further & strengthens my argument with his experience & observation as an American in a foreign country.
If we require english, provide voting, DLs, medical & other benefit applications in english only, they have to learn to get along. They integrate into society rather than society pandering to them. And, as I said, by not learning the language, they are limiting their opportunities. With mastery of english (to some functional degree), they will be able to make a living anywhere in the US, not just in areas where there are translators or agencies making things available in their native language.
Well, I ain't giving in. Call me racist, call it discrimination, whatever. I really don't care. It is to their benefit, how is that racist? It is to the benefit of society as a whole, how is that discriminatory?
Not a perfect world?? Well, dammit! I'll make it one!
Just to elaborate, I see your point and it is valid. However, your attitude seems to imply that you're all too willing to be one of those that caves to the liberal PC BS. Stop caving. Make it happen. PC is on the way out, ride the wave!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 08:39 PM
Originally posted by TourDeForce:I'll be one of the last ones to cave and am right there with you, however, the unfortnate reality is that our Government / Politicans are NOT listening to the [B]AMERICAN[/B] people, but instead are listening to the minority on this and are only going to do what they have to to make the American's borderline happy......otherwise, it would be this half-assed attempt at securing our borders and enforcing our laws. Hell, I'd be for putting the GWOT on hold until we can secure our own country, or, roll them into the same [censored] bag of money.
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:Yes, IF that were to happy. Its not going to happen though. We as a society are too soft and not hard enough to enforce this to say "Toughh Chit, learn the language or else." It will be called 'discrimination,' just like I'm a 'racist' because I am not for illegal immigrants. In a perfect world, it would work, but it ain't perfect.
Read my post from an hour & a half ago. I explain why. Wien Sean elaborates further & strengthens my argument with his experience & observation as an American in a foreign country.
If we require english, provide voting, DLs, medical & other benefit applications in english only, they have to learn to get along. They integrate into society rather than society pandering to them. And, as I said, by not learning the language, they are limiting their opportunities. With mastery of english (to some functional degree), they will be able to make a living anywhere in the US, not just in areas where there are translators or agencies making things available in their native language.
Well, I ain't giving in. Call me racist, call it discrimination, whatever. I really don't care. It is to their benefit, how is that racist? It is to the benefit of society as a whole, how is that discriminatory?
Not a perfect world?? Well, dammit! I'll make it one!
Just to elaborate, I see your point and it is valid. However, your attitude seems to imply that you're all too willing to be one of those that caves to the liberal PC BS. Stop caving. Make it happen. PC is on the way out, ride the wave!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 09:07 PM
Originally posted by We Todd:
I'll be one of the last ones to cave and am right there with you, however, the unfortnate reality is that our Government / Politicans are NOT listening to the [B]AMERICAN[/B] people, blah, blah, etc.
See? There ya go with that defeatist attitude again. The politicians respond to those making the most noise. Make noise man!!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/19/06 09:45 PM
I can compare these immigration issues with those of integration of the EU. Because there are no boarders between Schengen countries and a common currency, many feel they will loose their national identity, their heritage. This may be part of what legal immigrants are afraid of in being forced to learn a second language. This is a valid concern, but I would argue that it is up to their community to keep their heritage at heart and up to the individual to integrate into the new society. This is what my families did when they came from Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany, and Austria, in the early 20th century.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/20/06 11:41 PM
Originally posted by TourDeForce:IF we could put together marches for the enforcement of immigration laws and securing our borders like all the so called 'pro-immigration' people do, I'd be there in a heart beat! I've already written letters to my congressmen when I heard VA was going to allow illegal immigrants in-state tuition!
Originally posted by We Todd:
I'll be one of the last ones to cave and am right there with you, however, the unfortnate reality is that our Government / Politicans are NOT listening to the [B]AMERICAN[/B] people, blah, blah, etc.
See? There ya go with that defeatist attitude again. The politicians respond to those making the most noise. Make noise man!!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/21/06 12:43 AM
must say im quite shocked that it isnt already american law that the "official" language is english.
I also dont buy the argument that an immigrant would be threatened of their heritage having to learn another language. I myself am a proud canadian and of german descent, but i dont call myself a german canadian. Im a canadian first, all else is history. I think anyone that wants to live in another country and become a citizen should so likewise. If you want to be proud of your roots, thats something else.
I dont hear many people up here in canada complaining about having to learn english as a second language. Even when they are originally from holland, china, japan, bulgaria or iran (some people who immigrated here i work with)
I also dont buy the argument that an immigrant would be threatened of their heritage having to learn another language. I myself am a proud canadian and of german descent, but i dont call myself a german canadian. Im a canadian first, all else is history. I think anyone that wants to live in another country and become a citizen should so likewise. If you want to be proud of your roots, thats something else.
I dont hear many people up here in canada complaining about having to learn english as a second language. Even when they are originally from holland, china, japan, bulgaria or iran (some people who immigrated here i work with)
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/21/06 03:33 AM
Try life with TWO official languages.......
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/21/06 03:52 AM
lol like it matters out in bc! more chinese than whites out there!
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/21/06 03:55 AM
Learning English was something to be personally proud of in the past. My neighbors in Sterling Heights came to this country from Italy and spoke no English when they arrived. My neighbor once told me that within 1 year of landing on US soil they learned English, and from then on, they didn't speak anything but English in public. She said that they knew if they were ever to become American, regardless if the INS said they were citizens or not, they needed to learn English.
This isn't the case with Mexicans. They want us to cater to them and speak Spanish to them, and to provide this and that and everything else in Espanol. That is an attitude problem. It smacks of laziness, it goes against the old mantra, "When in Rome" What makes them think they are special or different from the Pols, Chezcs, Russians, French, Germans, Spanish-speakers, Chinese, Italians, or Japanese who came here in the past and learned English?
I have nothing against people who speak English as a second language. I'm not asking Mexicans to perfect their understanding of English. I'm not asking them to give up Spanish. I'm just asking that they make a reasonable attempt to learn English to the point where they can interact in America (An English speaking country) and not limit themselves. I just want them to do what the other immigrants throughout history have done when they came here. It would be a win-win situation.
This isn't the case with Mexicans. They want us to cater to them and speak Spanish to them, and to provide this and that and everything else in Espanol. That is an attitude problem. It smacks of laziness, it goes against the old mantra, "When in Rome" What makes them think they are special or different from the Pols, Chezcs, Russians, French, Germans, Spanish-speakers, Chinese, Italians, or Japanese who came here in the past and learned English?
I have nothing against people who speak English as a second language. I'm not asking Mexicans to perfect their understanding of English. I'm not asking them to give up Spanish. I'm just asking that they make a reasonable attempt to learn English to the point where they can interact in America (An English speaking country) and not limit themselves. I just want them to do what the other immigrants throughout history have done when they came here. It would be a win-win situation.
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/22/06 12:47 PM
disclaimer: this is not an attempt to bash anyone or anything regarding this whole issue, this is simply using an outlet to DISCUSS a current issue
that being said...
i will go ahead and put my flame suit on but i just have a question...call me devil's advocate here but i am a white american male....very proud of my heritage and my country...active in voting and politics....but in the broad spectrum here....what is so different about all of this, then what our ancestors did 220 some odd years ago by fleeing england and settling in this land.....we didnt come over here and learn native american languages, we forced our culture on other peoples, so why have we become so arrogant as to think that we are supreme enough to turn our backs on a people fleeing oppression and one sorry-ass economy for the opprotunity at something else? when answering this question, i understand that some mexicans are making NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect our culture, but again remember that 200+ years ago we made NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect other cultures...
that being said...
i will go ahead and put my flame suit on but i just have a question...call me devil's advocate here but i am a white american male....very proud of my heritage and my country...active in voting and politics....but in the broad spectrum here....what is so different about all of this, then what our ancestors did 220 some odd years ago by fleeing england and settling in this land.....we didnt come over here and learn native american languages, we forced our culture on other peoples, so why have we become so arrogant as to think that we are supreme enough to turn our backs on a people fleeing oppression and one sorry-ass economy for the opprotunity at something else? when answering this question, i understand that some mexicans are making NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect our culture, but again remember that 200+ years ago we made NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect other cultures...
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/22/06 01:30 PM
Originally posted by csc99svt:
disclaimer: this is not an attempt to bash anyone or anything regarding this whole issue, this is simply using an outlet to DISCUSS a current issue
that being said...
i will go ahead and put my flame suit on but i just have a question...call me devil's advocate here but i am a white american male....very proud of my heritage and my country...active in voting and politics....but in the broad spectrum here....what is so different about all of this, then what our ancestors did 220 some odd years ago by fleeing england and settling in this land.....we didnt come over here and learn native american languages, we forced our culture on other peoples, so why have we become so arrogant as to think that we are supreme enough to turn our backs on a people fleeing oppression and one sorry-ass economy for the opprotunity at something else? when answering this question, i understand that some mexicans are making NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect our culture, but again remember that 200+ years ago we made NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand and respect other cultures...
1. I will not pay for the sins of the long dead, ignorant, fearful, pioneers - They're most likely not even related to me. The 'WE' you speak of is not ME, or my family, or any friends that I know. Likely not you either, so get over the guilt. WE didn't do anything wrong to those people 220 years ago & opening the border is not the way to try & make up for that anyway. Just stupid non-logic.
If you wanna do something to make up for the expansion of the west, blow your paycheck at an indian casino.
2. We're not turning our backs on people seeking economic betterment. We are securing our border (i.e. security), our health, & our economy from an un-regulated flow of immigrants.
2a. There are legal means to enter this country. Too slow & inconvenient for the illegals apparently. Too bad. The legislation going through the Congress will likely have a guest worker program included to allow those seeking a better economic opportunity the ability to speed into this country without obtaining citizenship - which is what they're doing anyway. Now they get the blessings of society. Cool huh?
2b. Roughly 4 to 5 % of the people caught crossing illegally are OTMs (other than Mexicans). Some of those (I don't know the numbers) are from the 7 terrorism sponsoring states on the government watch list. That's only the ones we catch. Terrorist states/organizations have more money & other resources to offer their agents crossing illegally, so who knows how many are really coming in. This is a serious national security issue. The border must be secured.
3. I've already explained about learning the language. Check my other posts. Works for everybody. We are not taking their culture & language away, just encouraging them to assimilate into the rest of the USA so the whole country can function better & more efficiently.
Any more questions?
Re: English now officially the USA's national lang - 05/22/06 04:08 PM
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
1. I will not pay for the sins of the long dead, ignorant, fearful, pioneers - They're most likely not even related to me. The 'WE' you speak of is not ME, or my family, or any friends that I know. Likely not you either, so get over the guilt. WE didn't do anything wrong to those people 220 years ago & opening the border is not the way to try & make up for that anyway. Just stupid non-logic.
By no means do i condone what is taking place here....do i agree that our borders need to be secured...of course.....do i want taxes to continue to rise because the cost healthcare in this country continues to sky rocket and insurance policies go through the roof because we increasingly have to compensate for those who do not carry medical insurance and the likes, the majority of whom are illegal immigrants....HELL NO......
furthermore do i feel guilty about what happened 200+ years ago, absolutely not, not in the least bit, nor do i feel the need to oppress "whitey" because of things that happened in the past towards whatever race in whatever situation....
i just simply find it interesting that America is putting so much effort against one particular country,(yes i know immigration covers ALL immigrants, but lets face it here, there is no plan for fences on the northern border) to counter actions that mirror upon the exact situation on which this very country was founded...
do i want secure borders....hell yeah.....i think we should go underground, rather than build fences though.....dig a trench like 3 feet wide....fill it full of concrete and sensors to detect against digging.....then build a fence....my $.02