What if I were to tell you there is a documentary on 9/11 that PROOVES it was a inside job by our government? I just watched it in it's entirety and words just fall short of describing my feelings right now...
There is a free video on Google video called "911 Loose Change 2nd edition". Has anyone here ever watched this in it's entirety? This extremely hard hitting, heavily referenced documentary puts the truth, lies, and numerous gross inconsistencies right in front of you in a way no one has done. It's nothing short of genius.
Guys, I know some of you here donâ??t always agree with my views. In light of that, Please just this one time I'm asking... no PLEADING with each of you reading this right now just as soon as you can to commit the time (2hrs), watch this documentary! This is nothing like Farenheight 9/11, and it dares to show you the unfiltered, raw truth about the events leading up to and surrounding 9/11.
In all seriousness, if you watch this in it's entirety and donâ??t come away from it completely blown away, I'll eat my hat and apologize to you personally for wasting your time. I'd like to warn the faint of heart, this is quite taxing on the mind as it FORCES you to confront some very difficult and ugly things.
Please watch and share your thoughts. I posted this over on Neco as well.
911 Loose Change 2nd Edition
What a complete ass you are.
Yeah i watched it a while ago. Pretty intense stuff that really made me skeptical but not sure if the information he proposes is legit. I do think the pentagon attack was set-up by our govt.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
What a complete ass you are.
Please explain!?
As far as an inside job, not too sure I believe that. I do however want to see footage of the plane hitting the pentagon in addition to the wreckage that well...doesn't exsist... 
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
Don't watch those things and expect it's all true. It kinda brain washes you with the truth and some BS, If you watched a video proving how the government wasn't involved you would probably believe it too (if it had strong enough evidence and bs to sway you the other way)
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me! 
Well, the more you say about our government blowing its own people and property up, the more you are going to be judged. You might be right, but that doesn't matter. You WILL be judged. Nature of the beast...ARRRGH!!
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Well, the more you say about our government blowing its own people and property up, the more you are going to be judged. You might be right, but that doesn't matter. You WILL be judged. Nature of the beast...ARRRGH!!
I didn't say they gov't did the deed...but they are sure as hell covering something up. Until they show actual footage of that plane hitting the pentagon I am not going to believe it...
Originally posted by Icefury:
What if I were to tell you there is a documentary on 9/11 that PROOVES it was a inside job by our government? I just watched it in it's entirety and words just fall short of describing my feelings right now...
I'd tell you that you were out of your mind. I've watched this steaming pile of horsecrap.
I don't doubt that the gov't turned a blind eye to the potential for this out of sheer arrogance. I DO doubt it was directly involved in the destruction.
There will be no footage of the Pentagon. Any and all military base footage is classified, and there's no way they'll let it out, one way or the other. The only reason the WTC footage exists is the news was on it immediately.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
There is a video on ifilms from years ago demonstrating what happens when a plane runs full bore into a concrete wall. It disenigrates (sp?)! The only thing left of the plane was where it did NOT hit the wall. Thats where the plane yet.
Better yet for you conspiracy theorist, where did the people go on those planes?
Why would we pick Saudis to be the 'scapegoats' and not go after them?
If you guys believe that kind of crap, then well, I hope you get your money back for your educations...
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
There is a video on ifilms from years ago demonstrating what happens when a plane runs full bore into a concrete wall. It disenigrates (sp?)! The only thing left of the plane was where it did NOT hit the wall. Thats where the plane yet.
Better yet for you conspiracy theorist, where did the people go on those planes?
Why would we pick Saudis to be the 'scapegoats' and not go after them?
If you guys believe that kind of crap, then well, I hope you get your money back for your educations...
lol, why for being open minded I should get my money back...
You really answered no questions besides critisizing me...assclown.
And still where is the rest of the debris and the wingspan of the plane went where!?
Originally posted by Icefury:
What if I were to tell you there is a documentary on 9/11 that PROOVES it was a inside job by our government?
I say you are an ass if you believe something like this â??PROOVES it was a inside job by our government.â?
Conspiracy theories are easy to formulate for any complex event. Nothing could be more complex than 911. This will go on for decades â??? each â??documentaryâ? building and obscurating upon the previous. Rich pickings for Michael Moore wannabeâ??s to showcase their skill at splicing together public domain film-clips and way out of context quotes.
Crap like this is not about revealing truth: itâ??s all about â??look how clever I am! No Really, look!â? Cinemagraphics with a hypnotic beat. The MTV generation is itâ??s own worst enemy. Absolutely stunning display of selfishness.
Do you believe dozens if not hundreds of people involved at all levels of government and military service willingly â??fakedâ? a terrorist attack they knew would kill thousands of citizens and cause near unbelievable damage? And not one of them blew the whistle? Even now? What an incredibly evil and inhumanly disciplined set of characters you must think exist in our government. This fantasy is so much more interesting and entertaining than the truth!
Truth is there are people on this planet who hate us with unbridled passion, who would spare no effort to kill and hurt us â??? not even their own lives. No restraint and no sense of the moral standard we take for granted. A group of them, organized as a vicious terrorist army, found a hole in our security and took advantage of it.
And this is a waste of my time. Idiots will be swayed by whoever speaks loudest and wears the flashiest clothes. Itâ??s all about fashion. You want a conspiracy? How about the attempts to make it â??fashionableâ? for young people to believe our own government orchestrated 9-11?
Hey, thatâ??s a documentary Iâ??d like to watch! And guess who benefits from such a thing? The democrats you say? Well maybe, but Iâ??m thinking more along the lines of the groups we are at war with. Propaganda, the best way to fight us. Let us defeat ourselves through lack of will and focus.
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Conspiracy theories are easy to formulate for any complex event. Nothing could be more complex than 911. This will go on for decades â??? each â??documentaryâ? building and obscurating upon the previous. Rich pickings for Roger Moore wannabeâ??s to showcase their skill at splicing together public domain film-clips and way out of context quotes.
What does James Bond have to do with this? 
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Rich pickings for Roger Moore wannabeâ??s to showcase their skill at splicing together public domain film-clips and way out of context quotes.
This man speaks the truth. Take a documentary film class. I can take the most innocent looking series of clips and manipulate them in a way that you'd think the 2nd coming of Christ was upon us. If anyone believes anything purported by this mockumentary is naive beyond comprehension.
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Conspiracy theories are easy to formulate for any complex event. Nothing could be more complex than 911. This will go on for decades â??? each â??documentaryâ? building and obscurating upon the previous. Rich pickings for Roger Moore wannabeâ??s to showcase their skill at splicing together public domain film-clips and way out of context quotes.
What does James Bond have to do with this?
Ha ha! OK fixed.
Originally posted by todras:
This man speaks the truth. Take a documentary film class. I can take the most innocent looking series of clips and manipulate them in a way that you'd think the 2nd coming of Christ was upon us. If anyone believes anything purported by this mockumentary is naive beyond comprehension.
indeed. and this topic has been covered ad nauseum. 
as soon as I saw who bought Pete's 3L SVT, I KNEW these conspiracy threads would find their way into CI.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Well, the more you say about our government blowing its own people and property up, the more you are going to be judged. You might be right, but that doesn't matter. You WILL be judged. Nature of the beast...ARRRGH!!
I didn't say they gov't did the deed...but they are sure as hell covering something up. Until they show actual footage of that plane hitting the pentagon I am not going to believe it...
I am 99.999% certain that a few members here witnessed a plane hit the Pentagon.
Originally posted by Shaggy:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Well, the more you say about our government blowing its own people and property up, the more you are going to be judged. You might be right, but that doesn't matter. You WILL be judged. Nature of the beast...ARRRGH!!
I didn't say they gov't did the deed...but they are sure as hell covering something up. Until they show actual footage of that plane hitting the pentagon I am not going to believe it...
I am 99.999% certain that a few members here witnessed a plane hit the Pentagon.
Where is the video!? 
I'm a skeptic...I saw the video of the planes hitting the WTC in NY. I wanna see the footage!
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Where is the video!?
I'm a skeptic...I saw the video of the planes hitting the WTC in NY. I wanna see the footage!
dude, the gov't isn't going to release any footage of the pentagon getting hit. it's a security concern... think about it. 
Certain things can and do get marked as classified. The only reason why the video of the first tower is even available is because of the quick thinking of the 2 French brothers - during the making of their FDNY documentary/training video. Once that happened, people made calls and then I watched the towers get hit and fall.
As for the Pentagon, I take the word of the members that saw it get hit.
I have seen Videos!
Its a Plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
There is a video on ifilms from years ago demonstrating what happens when a plane runs full bore into a concrete wall. It disenigrates (sp?)! The only thing left of the plane was where it did NOT hit the wall. Thats where the plane yet.
Better yet for you conspiracy theorist, where did the people go on those planes?
Why would we pick Saudis to be the 'scapegoats' and not go after them?
If you guys believe that kind of crap, then well, I hope you get your money back for your educations...
lol, why for being open minded I should get my money back...
You really answered no questions besides critisizing me...assclown.
And still where is the rest of the debris and the wingspan of the plane went where!?
Open minded?
I answered your question, but you failed to understand it. The plane DISINTGRATED! Thus the majority of the wreckage was gone, crushed, or burnt up in the fire/collison!
But, I would like you to come to D.C. and tell people in the Pentagon, and the families who lost people on that flight, that it was a government conspiracy and you want them to prove otherwise. I'm sure the fact that their loved ones bodies are gone, aren't enough.
You do realize that 395 goes right by the Pentagon? There were people (not government employed) driving by when it happened that actually saw the plane come in. If anyone thinks all these people are being paid by the government or have been brainwashed etc., then they are ignorant.
Originally posted by We Todd:
The plane DISINTGRATED! Thus the majority of the wreckage was gone, crushed, or burnt up in the fire/collison!
There was a jet airliner crash here in Florida over a decade ago. The entire aircraft simply got swallowed up by the Everglades. No evidence except a patch where the vegitation was disturbed and a little jet fuel/hydraulic fluid. No 30' tail sticking out of the ground, no crumpled wing on a tree, no engines 1/2 into the ground. If you were in an air boat & didn't know a plane had gone down, you'd just boat on by and think nothing of it.
IIRC, no significant wreckage was found except the partial remains of 1 engine & the black box. Everything else was in such small pieces that they were un-recoverable.
Here are some quotes from a CNN news report:
Quote:
"When it hit the ground, the water and dirt flew up," he said. "The wreckage looked like if you take your garbage and throw it on the ground."
Aerial pictures showed what appeared to be debris strewn over a marshy region of the Everglades, but there were no signs of a fuselage or larger aircraft pieces.
Originally posted by Decepticon:
I have seen Videos!
Its a Plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
didnt the fbi confiscate all the videos? why have you seen them? if the videos are highly classified (and i understand you have some level of clearance) then how is it that people all over the military are seeing these videos and the public isnt? and what is so secretive about them? is it to prevent people from seeing how a plane can hit the outer perimeter wall? the fact that it is such a big "secret" for "national security" doesnt really make too much sense imo. 
they can parade videos of hussein's dead sons to the iraqi people to prove that they are dead but they cant show their own American citizens a video proving a plane (and what kind) hit the pentagon. especially when there is so much doubt and mistrust floating around out there amongst the citizenry.
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
... but they cant show their own American citizens a video proving a plane (and what kind) hit the pentagon. especially when there is so much doubt and mistrust floating around out there amongst the citizenry.
Election year coming up. Perhaps those will get de-classified for conservative entertainment purposes.
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
Originally posted by Decepticon:
I have seen Videos!
Its a Plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
didnt the fbi confiscate all the videos? why have you seen them? if the videos are highly classified (and i understand you have some level of clearance) then how is it that people all over the military are seeing these videos and the public isnt? and what is so secretive about them? is it to prevent people from seeing how a plane can hit the outer perimeter wall? the fact that it is such a big "secret" for "national security" doesnt really make too much sense imo.
they can parade videos of hussein's dead sons to the iraqi people to prove that they are dead but they cant show their own American citizens a video proving a plane (and what kind) hit the pentagon. especially when there is so much doubt and mistrust floating around out there amongst the citizenry.
That is the ONLY valid argument in the Pentagon plane attack is the reason why the FBI has confiscated the videos and has not released them to the public.
In addition, just because one has or HAD a clearance does NOT mean they are privy to every piece of classified material.
Indeed like ryan says there has to be a need to know.
or right place at right time.
Originally posted by Decepticon:
Indeed like ryan says there has to be a need to know.
or right place at right time.
that's what i was saying (need to know) but the right place at the right time explains it 
happen to know who shot jfk?? 
All the JFK stuff should be released pretty soon. Oh, and Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK. The real question is who shot J.R.? ARRRGH!!!
Or should I just say J. ARRRRGH!!!
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
they can parade videos of hussein's dead sons to the iraqi people to prove that they are dead but they cant show their own American citizens a video proving a plane (and what kind) hit the pentagon. especially when there is so much doubt and mistrust floating around out there amongst the citizenry.
Do you really want to deal with the red tape involved in de-classifying any/all of the security footage from one of, if not THE most secure military offices in the country?
And why should they feel the need to convince the lunatic fringe? They'd just say it was a mockup done on the same soundstage as the moon landing.
To put what I am about to write into perspective, I am what most of you would consider to be a left-wing liberal pinko. However, on September 11, 2001, I was at the Pentagon about 10 minutes after the plane hit. Fire, smoke, and the unmistakable smell of jet fuel burning. At about 2:00 am the next morning, I was coming home from work on I-395 and the smoke from the Pentagon was blowing across the highway. You could still smell the jet fuel, and, sadly, you could also smell something else....
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the aircraft, with all those unfortunate souls aboard, went into the side of the building, and that the doubters are nuts.
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
There is a video on ifilms from years ago demonstrating what happens when a plane runs full bore into a concrete wall. It disenigrates (sp?)! The only thing left of the plane was where it did NOT hit the wall. Thats where the plane yet.
Better yet for you conspiracy theorist, where did the people go on those planes?
Why would we pick Saudis to be the 'scapegoats' and not go after them?
If you guys believe that kind of crap, then well, I hope you get your money back for your educations...
It's pretty easy to make up names. There are plenty of people with the same name. Nobody knows everybody.
I knew in posting this to put my flame suit on. In reading all the posts in opposition to this, not one of you has made an argument on the film from a standpoint of reason and logic coupled with strong supporting facts. Just sweeping dismissals laced with personal flames. With the exception of bishop375, no one in opposition has even claimed to have watched the whole thing.
For those of you who doubt our government is capable of doing such a thing, you obviously have never taken any time to thumb through de-classified FBI/CIA documents. The experiments carried out on the unsuspecting and unwilling civilians of this country will leave you wondering if our elected officials and top military brass have souls at all. Things like poisoning civilian water well's, releasing experimental viruses into subways (results of which are still classified), injecting radioactive material into women and children, mind control experiments involving numerous types of torture carried out on prisoners, mentally handicap, and even children. These are but a few of the crimes against humanity that have been carried out by our government. Now if our government through de-classification can admit to doing things this terrible on it's own citizens, imagine what they do that will NEVER be released.
In a crime a good detective will always ask who stands to benefit and then follow the money for clues. That is what this video has done. Perhaps you could dismiss some of it's presentation individually as coincidence but when you take the numerous inconsistences into account, the gaping holes in the official report, the science in many respects does not add up, and follow the money your left to drawing one irrefutable conclusion. 911 was an insuide job. The official story is enforced not by logic, not by the integrity of the story, but by brute force and a unwillingness by officals to discuss it. The flimsy official story falls apart at nearly every major point. The hoax is bared to all who choose to see.
A closed mind has already made its mind up regardless of the evidence or data presented to it. Its opinion does not change with the flow of incoming data. It is stuck in an ARBITRARY CONCLUSION which results in a FIXED DECISION.
Originally posted by Icefury:
I knew in posting this to put my flame suit on.
soooooo are you saying you purposely posted this as flamebait?
Anybody with enough time on their hands can present an arguement that will make a GULLIBLE person believe anything.
Originally posted by frenchblueC2:
Originally posted by Icefury:
I knew in posting this to put my flame suit on.
soooooo are you saying you purposely posted this as flamebait?
BAN HIM!!!!!
Originally posted by BSpecialist:
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
There is a video on ifilms from years ago demonstrating what happens when a plane runs full bore into a concrete wall. It disenigrates (sp?)! The only thing left of the plane was where it did NOT hit the wall. Thats where the plane yet.
Better yet for you conspiracy theorist, where did the people go on those planes?
Why would we pick Saudis to be the 'scapegoats' and not go after them?
If you guys believe that kind of crap, then well, I hope you get your money back for your educations...
It's pretty easy to make up names. There are plenty of people with the same name. Nobody knows everybody.
Right. Thats why phone calls from the plane were placed, one from a congressman/senators wife IIRC.
Keep pull stuff out of that hat guys...its quite funny.
This is funny. Hippies make me laugh.
Originally posted by Icefury:
you obviously have never taken any time to thumb through de-classified FBI/CIA documents.
And you have had these documents in your hands, not read them on a website, nor via email?
And I'm going to paraphrase from boston.com's article on the movie United 93...
"That's the great thing about conspiracies- they can be altered to match ANY agenda!"
Originally posted by Icefury:
I knew in posting this to put my flame suit on. In reading all the posts in opposition to this, not one of you has made an argument on the film from a standpoint of reason and logic coupled with strong supporting facts. Just sweeping dismissals laced with personal flames. With the exception of bishop375, no one in opposition has even claimed to have watched the whole thing.
For those of you who doubt our government is capable of doing such a thing, you obviously have never taken any time to thumb through de-classified FBI/CIA documents. The experiments carried out on the unsuspecting and unwilling civilians of this country will leave you wondering if our elected officials and top military brass have souls at all. Things like poisoning civilian water well's, releasing experimental viruses into subways (results of which are still classified), injecting radioactive material into women and children, mind control experiments involving numerous types of torture carried out on prisoners, mentally handicap, and even children. These are but a few of the crimes against humanity that have been carried out by our government. Now if our government through de-classification can admit to doing things this terrible on it's own citizens, imagine what they do that will NEVER be released.
In a crime a good detective will always ask who stands to benefit and then follow the money for clues. That is what this video has done. Perhaps you could dismiss some of it's presentation individually as coincidence but when you take the numerous inconsistences into account, the gaping holes in the official report, the science in many respects does not add up, and follow the money your left to drawing one irrefutable conclusion. 911 was an insuide job. The official story is enforced not by logic, not by the integrity of the story, but by brute force and a unwillingness by officals to discuss it. The flimsy official story falls apart at nearly every major point. The hoax is bared to all who choose to see.
A closed mind has already made its mind up regardless of the evidence or data presented to it. Its opinion does not change with the flow of incoming data. It is stuck in an ARBITRARY CONCLUSION which results in a FIXED DECISION.
Idiots such as yourself, because that is indeed what you are, believe Bush and his cronies to be monstrous idiots, then you want people to believe that they are so smart they masterminded this plane to attack a country. I'm assuming their 'payoff' is because Halliburton has some lucrative contracts in Iraq.
What EVIDENCE do you have that proves the USG has indeed attacked itself? Why? So we can go spend billions of dollars in [censored] hole countries? So we can get thousands of Americans killed? Or just because we were bored and needed a new enemy since the USSR has dissolved?
I'm sure you have sat down and read these 'declassified' documents. You probably are privy to classified information on a daily basis that is 'leaked' to you as well?
Since its blatantly obvious that you have a distaste for this country, the Government, and its citizens, then take your ass across the border to Canada since its only a hop skip and a jump from you.
Originally posted by frenchblueC2:
Originally posted by Icefury:
I knew in posting this to put my flame suit on.
soooooo are you saying you purposely posted this as flamebait?
No, that's not it at all. All I was trying to infer is I knew I would have a fare shake of people who would have opposing views some of which would insult me hence the comment about having a flame suit. I posted this in a honest effort to get people to think and discuss this with reason. I have not flamed or attacked anyone.
Originally posted by Icefury:
No, that's not it at all. All I was trying to infer is I knew I would have a fare shake of people who would have opposing views some of which would insult me hence the comment about having a flame suit. I posted this in a honest effort to get people to think and discuss this with reason. I have not flamed or attacked anyone.
lemming.
Originally posted by We Todd:
snip...
Since its blatantly obvious that you have a distaste for this country, the Government, and its citizens, then take your ass across the border to Canada since its only a hop skip and a jump from you.
Ryan, it his right as a US citizen to feel the way he does. That is what make this country the greatest country in the world. But, on the other hand, people such as icefury should go to another country. I say go to Mexico and be an illegal there, but I digress.
Originally posted by Icefury:
I posted this in a honest effort to get people to think...
If it didn't get you to think, why would it make anyone else?
Originally posted by Shaggy:
Originally posted by We Todd:
snip...
Since its blatantly obvious that you have a distaste for this country, the Government, and its citizens, then take your ass across the border to Canada since its only a hop skip and a jump from you.
Ryan, it his right as a US citizen to feel the way he does. That is what make this country the greatest country in the world. But, on the other hand, people such as icefury should go to another country. I say go to Mexico and be an illegal there, but I digress.
You're absolutely correct. However, if people distrust the country (any country) they live in that much, then they should, IMO, go elsewhere to live.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Guess what...Farenheight 9/11 was supposed to be completely factual as well. And we all know, conservative or liberal, for the war or against it, that certain liberties were taken by Mike Moore. Nothing is completely true or factual, those words should not be uttered in any conversation about any government, period.
I haven't even watched THIS video...I will eventually and maybe it will tick me off, but until I they gov't fesses up with WTF actually happened at the pentagon...
You can laugh at me believing this all you want...but unless you have some great explanation as to where the HELL that plane went then I don't want anyone judging me!
Just ask the survivor's families where the plane went.
Jim T.
Originally posted by Shaggy:
Ryan, it his right as a US citizen to feel the way he does. That is what make this country the greatest country in the world.
This statement is absolutly correct.
I spent 5 years in the US Navy.
Spent 6 months in the perssian gulf, 6 months in the mediteranian.
I have been to over 30 different countries.
They only place we ever saw a protest against our being there was Rockland, Maine!!!
All of the [censored] hole thrid world countries and I get protested in the USA!! All I could think about the protestors is...
YOUR WELCOME!!
I serve so you can protest.
YOUR WELCOME!!
The police will not stop you, because in this country iT is 100% legal to protest.
YOUR WELCOME!!
Originally posted by BlackBirdRacing:
Originally posted by Shaggy:
Ryan, it his right as a US citizen to feel the way he does. That is what make this country the greatest country in the world.
This statement is absolutly correct.
By that same right, others can tell him he's FOS.
Originally posted by BlackBirdRacing:
I spent 5 years in the US Navy.
Spent 6 months in the perssian gulf, 6 months in the mediteranian.
I have been to over 30 different countries.
They only place we ever saw a protest against our being there was Rockland, Maine!!!
All of the [censored] hole thrid world countries and I get protested in the USA!! All I could think about the protestors is...
YOUR WELCOME!!
I serve so you can protest.
YOUR WELCOME!!
The police will not stop you, because in this country iT is 100% legal to protest.
YOUR WELCOME!!
I'm from norther Maine. I'd like to tell you that I, and my family, are 100% behind you, the nation, the mission - Despite what the assclowns in Rockland say.
Originally posted by jthursby:
Just ask the survivor's families where the plane went.
Jim T.
Bush had them kidnapped at the airport before take-off...it's a fact, it just hasn't been de-classified yet
Originally posted by SVZETEC:
Originally posted by jthursby:
Just ask the survivor's families where the plane went.
Jim T.
Bush had them kidnapped at the airport before take-off...it's a fact, it just hasn't been de-classified yet
That BASTID!! I just can't take any more of his LIES and SKULLDUGGERY!!!!
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ??¢:
Originally posted by BloodyTomFlint:
Well, the more you say about our government blowing its own people and property up, the more you are going to be judged. You might be right, but that doesn't matter. You WILL be judged. Nature of the beast...ARRRGH!!
I didn't say they gov't did the deed...but they are sure as hell covering something up. Until they show actual footage of that plane hitting the pentagon I am not going to believe it...
and the fact that all surrounding surveilance cameras tapes were taken by the govt. before or after this happened is also quite interesting. Im sure there are more videos of what hit the pentagon besides that one parking lot shot. I dont understand why they wont show those clips. And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Yes... lets continue to avoid the topic at hand here and continue to insult me and make snide remarks vs discussing the documentary. I made a request and judging by almost everyone's response none care to examine the video with an open mind and ask questions. Most of the questions/arguments brought up in opposition here are addressed in the video but I'm not going to spoon feed you with what it had to say.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me nor am I upset that most of you don't. But for god sakes if your not going to even watch it, let alone make a logical argument backed with reason and supporting facts why you agree or disagree why even bother posting? To ridicule and mock me? Hijack the thread for your own amusement?
As for the declassified documents, here are a few examples.
Google search the following Operations.
Operation...
MKSearch
MKUltra
MKOften
Paperclip
ProjectF
Document 07075001
The aircraft hit a fortified building and the fuel burned in a much more confined space than in the case of the Concorde accident (hence more destructive collision forces and hotter fire). IIRC, Aviation Week reported that titanium cores from the aircraft's engines did survive the fire and were recovered.
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Same here. Normally, there are pieces left. I'm not denying that they might be small, but not vaporized. It does seem odd. Plus, there's no way a plane of that size hitting 5 light poles could have not done anything major to the plane. If a piece of rubber from a tire hitting the fuel tank of the Concorde that crashed created shockwaves to shake wires off creating a short circuit, how is it that a lightpost can't do that?
EDIT: Thanks, Katabatic. The aforementioned is retracted.
oh no way im not dissing anyone or anything, it was just somthing I had always wondered about alot..
Originally posted by katabatic:
Aviation Week reported that titanium cores from the aircraft's engines did survive the fire and were recovered.
yea..any pics though?
thats what I mean ya know..
I know. I think next term, I'll be taking a crash investigation class to fill my Av. Safety minor.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
That BASTID!! I just can't take any more of his LIES and SKULLDUGGERY!!!!
at least hes not a FLIP-FLOPPERer! 
Originally posted by gilroynewball:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Same here. Normally, there are pieces left. I'm not denying that they might be small, but not vaporized. It does seem odd. Plus, there's no way a plane of that size hitting 5 light poles could have not done anything major to the plane. If a piece of rubber from a tire hitting the fuel tank of the Concorde that crashed created shockwaves to shake wires off creating a short circuit, how is it that a lightpost can't do that?
EDIT: Thanks, Katabatic. The aforementioned is retracted.
You guys are talkin' about planes in which the pilots were trained & motivated to keep the aircraft in one piece. The pilots of the 9/11 aircraft were out to do quite the opposite. They didn't care if there would be little/nothing remaining of the plane & their targets.
not only that, but for the umpteenth time... the gov't isn't going to release ANY info that might give a potential attacker any sort of intelligence as to the pentagons structure and fortifications. and that includes ANY pieces of the aircraft that may have survived the impact.
someone could look at those pics and determine all kinds of intelligence as to the construction and security of the building.
using past "excerices" or whatever as evidence for a current situation is simply a red herring and doesn't have any bearing on this particluar situation.
i IMPLORE some of you (pete) who i know are intelligent to think about this rationally and let go of the conspiracy theories.
Originally posted by Icefury:
I don't expect everyone to agree with me nor am I upset that most of you don't. But for god sakes if your not going to even watch it, let alone make a logical argument backed with reason and supporting facts why you agree or disagree why even bother posting? To ridicule and mock me? Hijack the thread for your own amusement?
I've watched it.
I've been in this debate before.
Fact - Cell phone calls CAN be made from airplanes.
Fact - Plane wreckage WAS recovered from WTC, Pentagon, and PA crash sites.
Let's see some of the other arguments brought forward - why did the buildings collapse? The only people I know who are confused about the collapses have never been to New York nor have seen the ground at WTC pre- or post- 9/11. It was NOT a solid ground foundation. It was a subway station, parking garage, walkway, etc. NOT one mass of concrete. WTC7 was NOT "pulled" as in demo. Support, including FDNY was pulled to avoid further loss of life.
Fact - A CEG'er saw the Pentagon site in person.
We ridicule because this shadow government military operation conspiracy is so contrived and thin that we can see right through it and the mindless drones who think that just because this information is different, it is correct.
These videos offer absolutely no proof of anything, just speculation.
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Goonz, as I stated before, there is a great video on ifilms that should help with this. Its a test with a F-4 running into a concrete wall at speed. The video looks to be done in the 80s buy its quality. Search there for that video and it should help explain it. Sorry I can't remember what the title is.
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Goonz, as I stated before, there is a great video on ifilms that should help with this. Its a test with a F-4 running into a concrete wall at speed. The video looks to be done in the 80s buy its quality. Search there for that video and it should help explain it. Sorry I can't remember what the title is.
yea but theres a difference between an F4 hitting than a 757..I dunno..oh well
perhaps showing pictures of surving wreckage may give away info but certainly not video footage of an airplane about to turn into a huge fireball followed by tons of smoke. what could that possibly give away?
what they arn't airplanes??????
whats the diff other than size and speed.
the same thing can happen even more soo at the insane speed those 757's where traveling 25ft off the ground
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Goonz, as I stated before, there is a great video on ifilms that should help with this. Its a test with a F-4 running into a concrete wall at speed. The video looks to be done in the 80s buy its quality. Search there for that video and it should help explain it. Sorry I can't remember what the title is.
yea but theres a difference between an F4 hitting than a 757..I dunno..oh well
there is, but the same principles apply, also you have to remember, when the Pentagon was designed, it was designed to resist a nuclear blast, IIRC.
Being an airplane buff, I'm sure you've seen the special where the raise the P-38 from under ice in Greenland or Iceland or something. First thye found the B-17..they thought it would be fine, but it was crushed. The P-38 was under the same stresses and was intact. So, if those same physics prinicples apply to those planes, I would think they would tranfer to the F-4/737/757 bodies, thus, I would think that LESS of the commerical airliner would be left and it is probably structurely weaker than a plane designed to land on aircraft carriers.
Originally posted by We Todd:
also you have to remember, when the Pentagon was designed, it was designed to resist a nuclear blast, IIRC.
wow. if an airplane can mange to poke its way through 3 rings (iirc) then i wonder what nuke could do. 
course, we'd never get to see the video
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
Originally posted by We Todd:
also you have to remember, when the Pentagon was designed, it was designed to resist a nuclear blast, IIRC.
wow. if an airplane can mange to poke its way through 3 rings (iirc) then i wonder what nuke could do.
The energy wave generated by a nuclear explosion is a completely different phenomenon from that of a concentrated fireball 20 feet in diameter.
It takes much more effort to fortify something against small-scale, high-energy penetration as opposed to large-scale structural loads.
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
perhaps showing pictures of surving wreckage may give away info but certainly not video footage of an airplane about to turn into a huge fireball followed by tons of smoke. what could that possibly give away?
it could give away the correct way to fly a plane into the pentagon?
here's a link that give some support to the fact that a 757 really did hit it... i hope you skpetics give it a good look.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by We Todd:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
And am I suppose to believe that there was no airplane wreckage found and that every thing burned away..not even a landing gear or anything? Cause I've seen planes burn to pieces like the concorde but still there is somthing left.. I dont understand.. ?
Goonz, as I stated before, there is a great video on ifilms that should help with this. Its a test with a F-4 running into a concrete wall at speed. The video looks to be done in the 80s buy its quality. Search there for that video and it should help explain it. Sorry I can't remember what the title is.
yea but theres a difference between an F4 hitting than a 757..I dunno..oh well
Exactly what difference? One plane is much bigger...so...there's an order of magnitude more kinetic energy involved, so while we're making uninformed guesses based on inexperience and apparent lack of 'believable' real-world examples of 757's crash-tested at 450 or 500 knots into kevlar-reinforced concrete, might as well posit that the leftover pieces would be even smaller with the 757, since the airframe is proportionally weaker to that of a fighter and said energy released at impact is much, much greater.
But let's not bother with the physics involved. It's what people think should happen based on the almighty intuition that takes the day...
EDIT: FWIW, 1) the Concorde had just taken off when its mishap occurred. There is no comparison between the impact speeds involved; 2) The ValuJet 593 DC-9 that TourDeForce alluded to went down nose first with a similar impact speed (as Flight 77) into a relatively soft marsh and dug itself a 40' hole into limestone; many extremely small pieces left, assuming you 'believe' those pictures. There is little reason to believe by comparison that any other airliner, larger or smaller, traveling at a similar speed, striking a fortified obstacle, will result in anything less than billions of tiny, charred, almost unidentifiable giblets.
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by a troll Aarrrrrrr:
perhaps showing pictures of surving wreckage may give away info but certainly not video footage of an airplane about to turn into a huge fireball followed by tons of smoke. what could that possibly give away?
it could give away the correct way to fly a plane into the pentagon?
here's a link that give some support to the fact that a 757 really did hit it... i hope you skpetics give it a good look.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
word. thanks dave. i'll add the one from snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
reading people's repsonses and support of these conspiracy videos makes me want to fly an RC plane into their face. KEE AYY!
Do you guys know about building number #7 in NYC??
It went down after the WTC towers got hit. IT is messed up to watch, it just fell down on its own.
NOthing around it. kinda wierd if you ask me. I guess it was a cia building. It look like buildings that get demolitioned by explosives.
If i find a link i will put it up.
I don't really believe in consipracies.
The inside job conspiracy sounds all too familiar to 24.
Originally posted by Rickson:
Do you guys know about building number #7 in NYC??
It went down after the WTC towers got hit. IT is messed up to watch, it just fell down on its own.
NOthing around it. kinda wierd if you ask me.
Not really weird at all. You have to understand a bit about engineering (mostly structural tolerances) coupled with force (mass and energy). Remember, the WTC towers were huge buildings, a few hundred thousand tons each with load. I've seen estimates as high as 500,000 tons each but let's safely say 300,000 tons each, so 600,000 tons of mass. That kind of mass creates an amazing amount of kinetic energy when in motion. All of that mass was converted into energy when the towers fell, and the energy created when all of that mass collapsed into the substructure of the Manhattan island was extremely destructive. I had the privilege to listen to a young lady who worked in the J.P. Morgan trading house which is within a block of the WTC area, and she was present when the towers came down. Her tearful description of that day I will never forget, and her description of the literal earthquake that occurred when the WTC's collapsed was no less amazing.
Many of the other WTC buildings, including WTC7, sustained structural damage as a result of the WTC towers falling. Specifically in WTC7's case, the amount of damage was so severe that the building simply collapsed after the WTC's did.
Originally posted by bishop375:
These videos offer absolutely no proof of anything, just speculation.
But, but.... I read on da innernet dat somebody said it was true... 
Originally posted by CLASSVT:
This is funny. Hippies make me laugh.
And they smell bad.
Originally posted by muntus:
Originally posted by CLASSVT:
This is funny. Hippies make me laugh.
And they smell bad.
Free love, baby. 
Originally posted by cjbaldw:
Originally posted by Rickson:
Do you guys know about building number #7 in NYC??
It went down after the WTC towers got hit. IT is messed up to watch, it just fell down on its own.
NOthing around it. kinda wierd if you ask me.
Not really weird at all. You have to understand a bit about engineering (mostly structural tolerances) coupled with force (mass and energy). Remember, the WTC towers were huge buildings, a few hundred thousand tons each with load. I've seen estimates as high as 500,000 tons each but let's safely say 300,000 tons each, so 600,000 tons of mass. That kind of mass creates an amazing amount of kinetic energy when in motion. All of that mass was converted into energy when the towers fell, and the energy created when all of that mass collapsed into the substructure of the Manhattan island was extremely destructive. I had the privilege to listen to a young lady who worked in the J.P. Morgan trading house which is within a block of the WTC area, and she was present when the towers came down. Her tearful description of that day I will never forget, and her description of the literal earthquake that occurred when the WTC's collapsed was no less amazing.
Many of the other WTC buildings, including WTC7, sustained structural damage as a result of the WTC towers falling. Specifically in WTC7's case, the amount of damage was so severe that the building simply collapsed after the WTC's did.
Um i read the report which stated, That there where 3 small fires which where started. Which caused a steel skyscrapper to fall.
1. Bush and company are idiots.
2. There is no conspiracy.
Why? Becuase a conspiracy of this size would NOT stay secret. The Whitewater affair was enough proof that there are people in the covernment that WILL tell the truth, and Contragate confimred that. This alledged conspiracy would be multitudes larger than either of those issues. There would be an inside informant with PROOF (not speculation) that would have materialized by this point.
People who beleive this kind of crap are weak minded and gullible.
Originally posted by Icefury:
bullshale
this thread should be locked for stupidity
Originally posted by Beowulf:
1. Bush and company are idiots.
2. There is no conspiracy.
Why? Becuase a conspiracy of this size would NOT stay secret. The Whitewater affair was enough proof that there are people in the covernment that WILL tell the truth, and Contragate confimred that. This alledged conspiracy would be multitudes larger than either of those issues. There would be an inside informant with PROOF (not speculation) that would have materialized by this point.
People who beleive this kind of crap are weak minded and gullible.
Well, I don't entirely agree with #1, but I do agree with #2.
With as much coverage that US intelligence and foreign intelligence blankets NYC with, as well as the fact that many appointees in the various agencies that would have HAD to of been involved with this little "covert" op have political loyalties outside of the Republican party, something like this would have been COMPLETELY impossible to cover up.
Nice plot pilot for next season's 24, though...