CI on break or gone for good?

I thought someone had to have done something stupid in the last 30 minutes since I had looked at the site before my shower. Ah well, maybe these children will finally learn their lesson.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time!

I guess you believe everyone reads those.

Guess you haven't seen all the posts lately, in all areas, with people
asking questions and all the info is in a sticky.

Originally posted by chongo:

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time!

I guess you believe everyone reads those.

you guess wrong. but, with a move as dramatic as pulling the CI forum, i think quite a few people will pay attention to it.

I think it's childish to remove it.

I haven't seen anything in that forum for a week, but I rarely agree with Lance, anyway.

Haven't seen anything in there?? What were you reading? Alot of pettiness going on, more than usual. Just plain childishness. People insulting others for no reason, just because they said HI basically.
Well, Lance does what he thinks is right, whether you, or anyone, agrees with it or not. It is HIS forum. He started this up to give us a place to chat about our cars with, and to chat with each other, and we have to follow his rules, plain & simple. When that doesn't happen, he does things like this.

What I find ironic is that this very thing happened last year, around the middle of September. Seems to be when college and high school starts that the immaturity prevails.

And no, people won't learn. This was covered in a sticky on top of the CI forum about what was happening last year and how Lance pulled it.

I vote pulling for more than just one day ... but then of course the OT-related posts would start creeping in the General forum as they did before too.

i will not question lance's rules for his own house but i am curious as to whether something specific was done or whether it was just a general series of violations that caused the removal of the ci section

Originally posted by acrdklr:
i will not question lance's rules for his own house but i am curious as to whether something specific was done or whether it was just a general series of violations that caused the removal of the ci section

haha ...

all of the rules except 9, 11 (due to technicality), 13 and 16 have been broken recently. Rules 3, 6, 7, and 8 have been regularly ignored in the past few weeks.

There was a straw that broke the camel's back.

Originally posted by infuryum:
I think it's childish to remove it.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time

Originally posted by Red92784:

Originally posted by infuryum:
I think it's childish to remove it.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

thanks for the clarification lance. i for one respect your decision especially since this isn't the first time CI has needed to take a break. we probably should've seen this coming.

Originally posted by Renee:
Haven't seen anything in there?? What were you reading? Alot of pettiness going on, more than usual. Just plain childishness. People insulting others for no reason, just because they said HI basically.
Well, Lance does what he thinks is right, whether you, or anyone, agrees with it or not. It is HIS forum. He started this up to give us a place to chat about our cars with, and to chat with each other, and we have to follow his rules, plain & simple. When that doesn't happen, he does things like this.

This is not the first time Lance has temporarily removed CI because people can't follow the rules. I remember when it came close to being permanently removed a couple years ago. As he said back then (to paraphrase), this is a Contour site; CI is a privilege for everyone who doesn't abuse it.

Originally posted by Red92784:

Originally posted by infuryum:
I think it's childish to remove it.

having admins that are to strict are defintly not a good think, I think you guys need to let up a little! no pun intended, just a suggestion...

I've been a pretty good member here for almost 3 years! I love this site never had a problem, you guys are doing a great job!

but I don't know, sometimes you guys seem REALLY uptight, I've seen alot of bad outcomes from admins who are way to strict.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:
if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time!

It does not get any "stickier" than this Forum Rules

Originally posted by Renee:
Haven't seen anything in there?? What were you reading?

I haven't been IN the forum in a week. That's what I meant.

I don't need a shpeel about how we exist under the good graces of our ruler. He and I exchanged quips about that in the fall of '02. I still have the PM's saved.

I plainly disagree with the way he operates. It's simple. You agree with him and that's fine. I choose not to.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time!

Lance's point in removing the CI forum is that we should already know what to do and what not to do before entering or posting something in Common Interests.

The moderators shouldn't have to be providing us with a Sticky for rules. It's our responsibility to know them without such redundant stickies all over the place.

On a side note, I'm surprised it took this long. With the way things were going in there, I suspected it would've been shut down a while ago. Maybe permanently. I guess this just shows that Lance and Co. have tolerated our behavior longer than they really have to and the only thing we give in return is more rules being broken day in and day out.

PS: This isn't in direction to ALL people. I'm sure there's still enough on CEG with a clear head, and I'm not saying that I'm an angel on here either. I've had my own heated debates (recall Dom's new paint thread, I was in on that) but I think we all just need to learn where the line lies as far as an opinion and a violation of the rules.

contour.org has been around for 7 years. If something bad was going to happen from the way things are run, don't you think it would have happened by now?

This should prove to HITMAN that we aren't too busy to watch after the forums.

Originally posted by hetfield:

Originally posted by Renee:
Haven't seen anything in there?? What were you reading? Alot of pettiness going on, more than usual. Just plain childishness. People insulting others for no reason, just because they said HI basically.
Well, Lance does what he thinks is right, whether you, or anyone, agrees with it or not. It is HIS forum. He started this up to give us a place to chat about our cars with, and to chat with each other, and we have to follow his rules, plain & simple. When that doesn't happen, he does things like this.

This is not the first time Lance has temporarily removed CI because people can't follow the rules. I remember when it came close to being permanently removed a couple years ago. As he said back then (to paraphrase), this is a Contour site; CI is a privilege for everyone who doesn't abuse it.

I agree. Some forums don't even have OT sections. There is nothing that says you do. There is nothing that says you have to have a section to share your "well thought out and informed" opinions with the rest of us. I think we should consider ourselves lucky that we have it.

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

if you could, maybe make a sticky or something stating why you pulled it off. maybe we'll know better what not to do next time!

Lance's point in removing the CI forum is that we should already know what to do and what not to do before entering or posting something in Common Interests.

The moderators shouldn't have to be providing us with a Sticky for rules. It's our responsibility to know them without such redundant stickies all over the place.

sigh.... i know what the damm rules are. i said "stating WHY you pulled it off" i.e. specific reasons. simply in order to make it more clear for those who don't understand why. THATS ALL I'M SAYING! it was just a simple request. take it, leave it, whatever. but i'm not here to debate about it!

Originally posted by 98 SE:
What I find ironic is that this very thing happened last year, around the middle of September. Seems to be when college and high school starts that the immaturity prevails.

How does that make sense? Wouldn't students be on the computer more during the summer? Or are you saying that school makes kids nuts? I'm a bit confused...

Perhaps you should go back and read my PS note. My post wasn't directed solely at you. I've no doubt you know the rules.

Why was CI removed? I thought common sense would say that the rules were broken one too many times.

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:

Why was CI removed? I thought common sense would say that the rules were broken one too many times.

specifically.... as to prevent threads like this.

this thread is starting to exemplify the reasons why it was removed

I say leave it off.

Saves bandwidth plus I never post there anyway...

If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

I'm guessing those that caused the trouble in there don't even donate to help keep the site running. They should be very grateful for ever having a CI forum. (Hoping it wasn't me that got it locked down)

Originally posted by perry:
This should prove to HITMAN that we aren't too busy to watch after the forums.

The very fact that HITMAN is not banned suggests the opposite

The title of the forum is COMMON INTERESTS. There wouldn't be any arguing (childish or not) if somebody wasn't commonly interested in the topic being argued. If you dont like whats going on in a particular thread then dont participate in it. Plane and simple.

I think some mod's or admin's get aggravated at something else and then when they see something they dont like here they have a hissyfit and take it out on the whole forum. If you have a "Common Interests" forum you must expect things to get heated and/or childish sometimes. Its human nature. In my own opinion, alot of the forum rules do/should not apply in the CI forum because it is impossible to inforce them.

Removing the forum will not do any good because discussions and arguments will trickle into other places thus disturbing other forums ways of life. This is what the CI forum is for. Its so we can duke out an argument somewhere else and not disturb others that want to talk about cars.

Like I said above, in my owne oppinion this applys to moderators and admins also. If you dont like where an argument is going than you should not go back in the thread. Its that simple.

Pretty soon this place is going to start loosing members and it wont be a part of daily life for alot of people anymore. I admire Lance for having such a successfull forum that thousands of people visit everyday but I dissagree with alot of decisions he has made in the past. I agree with him wanting to set an example but he can do that in his own posts. Dont sensor others for letting a little of their own personality leak out into a thread here and there.

There is this kind of forum eddicate that everyone tries to live up to so they can sound smart and so no one will make fun of them. What I have found with this place is that if you do not live up to this eddicate then people will most likely flame, or poke fun at you just for being yourself. This is one thing I cannot stand. Im guilty of it too. I have participated in a couple heated debates where I use big words and try to make my self sound smarter than the next guy, when what I really want to do is tell them to [censored] off. If anyone sais that they are not guilty of this than may GOD strike them down with lightning. But there is nothing wrong with this. It is a part of life. You cannot tell someone not to get pissed off, and its wrong for you to think that you can. It mabey just a forum but its better to duke something out in this place than to do it in person.

I made my point a long time ago, so :::::rant off:::::

AND AS DAVO SAIS "THATS JUST MY OPINION, I COULD BE WRONG". or something like that.

Originally posted by infuryum:
I think it's childish to remove it.

I haven't seen anything in that forum for a week, but I rarely agree with Lance, anyway.

Childish? How exactly is it childish? I'd love an answer.

Bottom line is that no matter what rules are set up, people eventually push the limits and I have to do something about it. I felt it was out of control enough to warrant a few hours of downtime.

How you can pass judgment without even seeing what was going on in there?

Originally posted by infuryum:
I don't need a shpeel about how we exist under the good graces of our ruler. He and I exchanged quips about that in the fall of '02. I still have the PM's saved.

I plainly disagree with the way he operates. It's simple. You agree with him and that's fine. I choose not to.

I still have the PM's, too, and I just re-read them. Do you still think I run this site to fuel my ego? I assure you that it is not my motivation. I did remember things ending amicably at that time, and have the PM to prove it, but you seem to never mention that.

You do not agree with my operational methods, and that's fine, but I would love to hear your suggestions. I can recall a lot of disgruntlement over how things are run, but no suggestions. Feel free to PM me, I am always open to suggestions on improving the site.

-Lance

Good decision, Lance.

It's my personal opinion that we should be rid of it permanently.

There's not really any compromise in this situation; either follow the rules and keep CI, or don't follow the rules and lose it, looks like a lot of the people that will miss it are the ones that got rid of it.

Removed because the contents of this post were part of the very reason CI was suspended for a few hours.

It's OK if we lose the members that constantly start STUPID arguements that cause the CI forum to be shut down. I and many others won't miss them, including the moderators and Lance, the owner of the site. If people wanna leave they can and should. This site isn't about the CI forum, so if that's all you are here for, then go ahead and leave now. The reasons moderators go into the threads is to MODERATE. These are moderated forums, they need to be moderated, that's just the way it is. Don't like it, don't stay here.

A little bickering and argueing is ok, the CI forum only gets shut down for good reasons. One more time, don't like it then don't stay, the forums are not about the CI forum.

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

whatever. i'm just trying to help. you're just here to what? make me look bad? start arguments? you are the man.

Originally posted by Mad_Medeiros:

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

you seem to be a big [censored] talker/ass kisser lately. damn.

Keep personal attacks to PM. Chris just made a simple statement about what is going on. You're just proving the point he made.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

whatever. i'm just trying to help. you're just here to what? make me look bad? start arguments? you are the man.

I don't think he was doing that. Just stating that we should all know the rules, which we should. We should all be responsible enough to not need a stickied thread to remind/pound it into us.

I diddn't say I diddn't like it.

Dude you've aggreed with me on several occations why this sudden attack. I love the info I can get here and Im not here for just the CI forum. WTF is your problem!!! Did you even read the entire post. Did you read my post in GENERAL a last week about the way I feel about CEG.

Damn!!

Hey, tell y'all what, instead of arguing about crap here, go be productive and vote!

Originally posted by Red92784:
I diddn't say I diddn't like it.

Dude you've aggreed with me on several occations why this sudden attack. I love the info I can get here and Im not here for just the CI forum. WTF is your problem!!! Did you even read the entire post. Did you read my post in GENERAL a last week about the way I feel about CEG.

Damn!!

It's not an attack against you. That's the problem on here. Everyone takes stuff personal. It's OK to disagree. You're saying the moderators should back out of threads????!?!? What the heck is a moderator supposed to do then? I'm glad you like it here. Stay. The moderators are going to do their job and Lance is gonna run the site. I'm fine with you. Not just cuz we've agreed on stuff, but just cuz I'm aight with you. You AND some others just need to not take stuff personal.

Originally posted by perry:
There was a straw that broke the camel's back.

What happened? I was on here a couple hours ago and didn't notice anything too bad???

As for taking down the common interest section, I am curious about just how much bandwith it uses and if said bandwith useage is at the expense of something else? I always hear the terms "waste of bandwith" but don't understand how bandwith is wasted? Seems to me the only problem with a big forum would be drive space on the server?

Oh, and I understand that when someone loads a topic it uses bandwith but how much could it possibly be??

Common interest forums is the reason I come here as many times a day as I do. There are only so many new innovations, and problems our cars can have; I can only take so many "whats the best intake/exhaust/turbo or supercharger/nitrous kit" posts a day. It is nice to have a place where people can just B.S.

Also, why are people not being banned from the site if the problems are so bad that an entire section needs to be shut down? I can think of a few people the concensus would love to see gone, and would solve alot of problems... -Nick

To clarify:

I did not close CI because of arguing. Arguments are encouraged. However, when it sinks to personal attacks, insults, and posting similarly titled new threads to mock others, I have to step in. There would be no end to it otherwise, and it would eventually infect the entire forum.

The rules, all of which I believe to be sensible in order to keep order, have been bent and broken far too much in the last few weeks. I don't like to have to do this, but I felt it was necessary to get everyone's attention and get back on track.

-Lance

Because you and I came to an agreement, like two men should be able to do, doesn't mean I agree with you.

I think it's childish because it reminds me a lot of the kid who got mad and decided to take his toys and go home in hopes of teaching the other kids a lesson because he had the best toys on the block and they would concede to him in order to play with his toys the next day.

Holy crap, that was a long sentence!

I haven't passed judgement on anything that happened. Heck, you could have been like GWB and exhausted all diplomatic avenues before ganking the forum. If you did, great! But if it's as it appears, then I wonder where your motivation came from.

No, I don't think your ego has anything to do with it. The situation was different two years ago and I've personally grown up quite a bit since then. However, I doubt that you're REALLY open to suggestions. It doesn't seem your style. And you haven't heard a peep of disgruntlement from me for the past 24 months. You may be referring to other folks, but don't play that card with yours truly. I'm not all bitching and moaning. (Whether I promote constructive conversation, however, is an entirely different story

)

Overall, I think you run a very good ship. I enjoy my time here.

Keep up the good work.

But on the flip side, how bad of a day is this cat about to have???

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by Red92784:
I diddn't say I diddn't like it.

Dude you've aggreed with me on several occations why this sudden attack. I love the info I can get here and Im not here for just the CI forum. WTF is your problem!!! Did you even read the entire post. Did you read my post in GENERAL a last week about the way I feel about CEG.

Damn!!

It's not an attack against you. That's the problem on here. Everyone takes stuff personal. It's OK to disagree. You're saying the moderators should back out of threads????!?!? What the heck is a moderator supposed to do then? I'm glad you like it here. Stay. The moderators are going to do their job and Lance is gonna run the site. I'm fine with you. Not just cuz we've agreed on stuff, but just cuz I'm aight with you. You AND some others just need to not take stuff personal.

Not all threads, just certain ones in the CI forum. Would the mods rather people duke out problems at local meets? There is no way that the mods can inforce the rules in the CI forum and if they remove it then these arguments will stem off into other forums like this one. My point has already been proved by this thread. I would rather one forum go unsensord than have all of CEG be dissrupted by people starting flame wars in other forums.

That's the problem. Personal attacks. There have been plenty of people that I've argued with and we get into it too deep. Eventually we've resolved these problems. Just ask russell-3L, johnnysvt, and a couple others. I've learned to not get personal if at all possible. Everyone should learn this. Arguements are fun and often informative. I've learned a lot through them and changed positions at times because of them. Can't we all just get along?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Can't we all just get along?

NO!!!! SO STFU!!!!

(I am just playing... )

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Can't we all just get along?

ummmmmmmm, i think thats why the CI is off for a bit. people cant get along.

Originally posted by Red92784:

Not all threads, just certain ones in the CI forum. Would the mods rather people duke out problems at local meets? There is no way that the mods can inforce the rules in the CI forum and if they remove it then these arguments will stem off into other forums like this one. My point has already been proved by this thread. I would rather one forum go unsensord than have all of CEG be dissrupted by people starting flame wars in other forums.

Most of the locals don't argue with each other. And if they wanna duke it out at a local meet, then that's their progrative (spelling?). It's my guess that they are grown up enough to ignore petty internet arguements when at a local meet. I've personally seen focal jetters fight at a local meet at it was actually pretty funny. If the moderators kill a thread in CI forum, and someone moves it somewhere else, they can kill it there. If that person chooses to open it again, they can ban that person. Pretty simple. Not to sound like an ass, but it doesn't matter what you (or I) want. It's not our place. There has to be a certain level of moderation to the CI forum if people can't follow the rules themselves.

Originally posted by 99blacksesport:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Can't we all just get along?

NO!!!! SO STFU!!!!

(I am just playing... )

I know you are. And (trying to set an example) if you're weren't, I wouldn't get all pissy. I'd laugh. Laughter is good. Ya'll should do it. And if you lose an internet arguement, even if you have a more valid point, who cares? It's an internet arguement.

Yes. A CERTAIN AMMOUNT. I think the word filter takes care of that. Unless something is harming the whole site I dont understand why it cant be left alone. Arguments/flamewars are kept in the CI forum. Thats what its for.

When people get down and dirty its usually a last resort. Like I said before dont sensor someone for being themself.

Originally posted by Red92784:
Yes. A CERTAIN AMMOUNT. I think the word filter takes care of that. Unless something is harming the whole site I dont understand why it cant be left alone. Arguments/flamewars are kept in the CI forum. Thats what its for.

When people get down and dirty its usually a last resort. Like I said before dont sensor someone for being themself.

I hear what you're saying. But you gotta understand arguements are allowed. And they are allowed to a pretty high point IMHO. But flamewars are NOT needed. Take those to PM. If flamewars are allowed to go on, like Lance said, people start more threads to continue them,,, and eventually they trickle into threads on the rest of the site. Why do we need flamewars? I don't understand why you would want flamewars? If you do want them, just take them to PM.

Originally posted by infuryum:
Because you and I came to an agreement, like two men should be able to do, doesn't mean I agree with you.

Fair enough.

Quote:

I think it's childish because it reminds me a lot of the kid who got mad and decided to take his toys and go home in hopes of teaching the other kids a lesson because he had the best toys on the block and they would concede to him in order to play with his toys the next day.

No, it is akin to parenting. The kids break the rules and you send them to their room for a bit. Then you start over.

Man, it is just for a few hours... the world isn't ending.

Quote:

I haven't passed judgement on anything that happened. Heck, you could have been like GWB and exhausted all diplomatic avenues before ganking the forum. If you did, great! But if it's as it appears, then I wonder where your motivation came from.

Sorry, but saying it is childish is passing judgment. You are judging my actions as childish.

My motivation is to preserve order, to encourage the exchange of information, ideas, humor, etc. It is a tough job to do well and you can never please everyone.

Quote:

No, I don't think your ego has anything to do with it. The situation was different two years ago and I've personally grown up quite a bit since then. However, I doubt that you're REALLY open to suggestions. It doesn't seem your style. And you haven't heard a peep of disgruntlement from me for the past 24 months. You may be referring to other folks, but don't play that card with yours truly.

It doesn't seem my style? What? What exactly is my style,then? I have implemented suggestions more times than I can count. I don't have all the answers, not even close.

I am REALLY open to suggestions. Try me. How hard would it be to make one? Or two? Or do you even really have any?

-Lance

Originally posted by Red92784:
Arguments/flamewars are kept in the CI forum. Thats what its for.

No. CI is for discussing topics that aren't Contour related. Things like computers, other cars, science, school, you get the picture. Some topics, like politics, lend themselves to more of an argumentative discussion, but there's a constructive way to argue. Mocking people, name calling, and flaming isn't constructive. That's why I hardly ever participate in political discussions on this site; eventually I'm labeled as a dumbass liberal or conservative.

Not trying to start anything, but I have to say that while I understand you run the site and you are in that sense "the man." I think it is rather absurd that you feel you are in any position to be a parental figure and "punish" your "children."

I think you and some of your loyal followers have at times proved yourselves to be no better. I know perry for example is not above personal attacks, and I have to say that I was shocked to find him a moderator, though I know it's been years.

Maybe I'm just a devil's advocate.

No, I'm sure we could have some healthy discussion about suggestions and what-not. And don't go thinking that I have my body temperature rising from the removal of the forum. Like I said, I haven't read anything substantial in there for the past few days.

It's the parenting gag that gets me. That's my whole point. I find it funny that people feel forced to act like parents. And that they do so with such PASSION!

Parents rarely take suggestions from their children. You seem the parenting type and that's from where I draw my conclusions, however uneducated they may be. No, Mr. Kinley, I'm not passing judgement on you or your ability to run a website. Today I've taken the information with which I've been given to work and drawn just those: conclusions.

I'm on AIM if you're bored.

Originally posted by rollingstash:
I know perry for example is not above personal attacks, and I have to say that I was shocked to find him a moderator, though I know it's been years.

Don't even get me started.

Ok fine flaming will be tolerated to a point but that was not what was going on tonight. People start other threads about old ones if they dont agree with the reason it was locked. Usually a thread is locked for a good reason, but Ive seen a few lately that diddn't justify locking.

Ok so mabey I have a different definition of flaming. Someone enlighten me.

Originally posted by infuryum:
I find it funny that people feel forced to act like parents.

Some people act like such children, though, that it almost begs the necessity sometimes. The post that "brought CI down" is a good example of this. No, I will not divulge it.

Flaming=personal attacks. Anytime someone starts calling someone names or whatever. Also there is a very very small number of people on here that will argue ANYTHING just to argue and they also start flaming. If someone doesn't agree with why a thread was locked they should PM a moderator, don't worry about it, or just leave the forums.

Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
It's off for the rest of the evening due to the utter stupidity going on. If the rules cannot be followed, I act.

-Lance

Memo to Lance:

You said you shut down CI because of some acts of "stupidity," and because some rules were broken. But what happened? You gave us no specifics. No explanation of what was so out of the ordinary.

So, why the secrecy, Lance? What good does it do for you to shut down a forum without telling anyone exactly why you did it? All that does is ensure that whoever went over the line will not know what they did wrong. No lessons will be learned, no improvements in behavior will occur. When you shut down a forum because of the misbehavior of a few people, you only encourage an atmosphere of randomness and anarchy.

As you know, a lot of the forum rules are broken regularly. Enforcement of the rules on CEG is lax and inconsistent. As a result, many members do not know exactly what is forbidden and what is not. Every time someone misbehaves and gets away with it, the rules get a little fuzzier. Some members may naturally decide that anything goes.

If the level of civility on CEG is going downhill, don't blame it on new teenage members, or the beginning of a new school year. Many long-term members behave worse than newbies, and many of them misbehave year 'round. If you are bothered by the behavior in CI, Lance, just take a look at the way this site is managed.

Lance, a few suggestions:

1. Post guidelines for the moderators, clearly explaining what each rule means, with procedures for determining when a rule has been broken. Ask members with experience in business, law or government to write an easy-to-follow guideline for each rule.

2. Post clear guidelines showing exactly what the consequences will be for rulebreakers. Maybe it would help to have escalating consequences, with a one-day ban for the first violation, a month-long ban for the second violation, and a six-month ban for a third violation. Post a list of banned members for everyone to see, with a written explanation of how they broke a rule.

3. Set up a review panel of experienced member that will review each moderator's disciplinary actions. Since each violation can have serious consequences, it is only fair to have a review panel approve each disciplinary action before it becomes effective. The disciplined member should have the opportunity to explain himself. In some cases, a member should be given a chance to apologize in order to avoid disciplinary action.

I know this is your house, Lance, and you are free to run it any way you want. Just trying to be helpful.

I'm thinking it was that idiotic post that was nothing but like 25 people quoting nothing. I left a few hours ago to do some work and that was the worst thing I saw on there. But, who knows? Around here lately threads can go downhill faster than a 'Tour goes 0-60.

P.S. Make me a mod, my first act would be to ban everyone including myself for 3 days.

Originally posted by caltour:
1. Post guidelines for the moderators, clearly explaining what each rule means, with procedures for determining when a rule has been broken. Ask members with experience in business, law or government to write an easy-to-follow guideline for each rule.

This has already been addressed to a certain extent. Obviously the rules are there for everyone to read, but if a moderator is unsure how to handle a situation there is a place where we can ask for advice. I personally have used this resource in the past to decide how to respond to problems threads/users.

Originally posted by hetfield:
Some people act like such children, though, that it almost begs the necessity sometimes. The post that "brought CI down" is a good example of this. No, I will not divulge it.

Your post is pretty useless then, isn't it?

Originally posted by infuryum:

Originally posted by hetfield:
Some people act like such children, though, that it almost begs the necessity sometimes. The post that "brought CI down" is a good example of this. No, I will not divulge it.

Your post is pretty useless then, isn't it?

It's not up to me.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Flaming=personal attacks. Anytime someone starts calling someone names or whatever. Also there is a very very small number of people on here that will argue ANYTHING just to argue and they also start flaming. If someone doesn't agree with why a thread was locked they should PM a moderator, don't worry about it, or just leave the forums.

Ok. Thanks. But a personal attack can be just about anything. Name calling I can understand. That can be avoided with bigger words.

If someone was arguing in a thread that was locked for a stupid reason then they would be inclined to pick the discission elsewhere.

I think that the mods dont like confronting people. They should first PM the offender and warn them that they will lock the thread if this beheavior continues. Locking the thread is just an easy way out of a confrontation.

LANCE! are you reading this??? :::::Suggestion Box:::::

If anyone remembers, it was this EXACT same issue which had me upset two autumns ago. The disbandment of a forum with NO clear reason why. No matter how hard I tried, NO ONE would tell me WHY the Off-Topic forum was gone. They, in addition to the owner, simply took the stance of "don't ask and leave it alone."

ESPECIALLY if you want people to donate to the site (which I have yet to do, so I don't have a lot of room to talk, anyway), this isn't a good way to get them to do so.

Originally posted by caltour:
So, why the secrecy, Lance? What good does it do for you to shut down a forum without telling anyone exactly why you did it? All that does is ensure that whoever went over the line will not know what they did wrong. No lessons will be learned, no improvements in behavior will occur. When you shut down a forum because of the misbehavior of a few people, you only encourage an atmosphere of randomness and anarchy.

Originally posted by infuryum:
If anyone remembers, it was this EXACT same issue which had me upset two autumns ago. The disbandment of a forum with NO clear reason why. No matter how hard I tried, NO ONE would tell me WHY the Off-Topic forum was gone. They, in addition to the owner, simply took the stance of "don't ask and leave it alone."

Yesterday, Fat Mike posted a thread about going to protest Laura Bush and he was threatened and he was a hero blah blah blah. Turned into a typical CEG quasi-debate including flaming and name-calling.

Not long after, someone else started a thread about Laura Bush coming to their home. This thread consisted almost completely of posts that contained nothing but repeated quotes of blank space -- that was very cool.

After Christy locked that one, someone else (I believe PackRat) started a thread about Laura Croft coming to their house. I didn't quite see everything in this thread, but what I saw was dumb and not within forum guidelines.

That's the stupid crap that resulted in CI being removed. No more "secrecy".

Originally posted by Red92784:
I think that the mods dont like confronting people. They should first PM the offender and warn them that they will lock the thread if this beheavior continues. Locking the thread is just an easy way out of a confrontation.

I tried that once. But because the person was so hot under the collar I just ended up getting verbally (textually?) abused. Locks are more effective. If someone is unsure as to why a thread was locked, they can always PM and ask.

Haha textual abuse!

What will the mother say when she finds out???

Originally posted by hetfield:

Originally posted by Red92784:
I think that the mods dont like confronting people. They should first PM the offender and warn them that they will lock the thread if this beheavior continues. Locking the thread is just an easy way out of a confrontation.

I tried that once. But because the person was so hot under the collar I just ended up getting verbally (textually?) abused. Locks are more effective. If someone is unsure as to why a thread was locked, they can always PM and ask.

So you are going to let one person discourage you from trying that again?

Jesus!!! Have you ever had anyone disaggree with you in a thread? Oh right I forgot. You'll just lock it if that happens.

Originally posted by Red92784:
Have you ever had anyone disaggree with you in a thread? Oh right I forgot. You'll just lock it if that happens.

Again, you're confusing disagreement with flamewar. All the PM did was make the situation worse. I've been in plenty of great discussions and debates on this site, but I'm not here to have people make personal attacks against me.

I think this post needs to be moved to the Common Interests forum.

Originally posted by Red92784:

So you are going to let one person discourage you from trying that again?

Originally posted by Red92784:
You'll just lock it if that happens.

Moderators don't do that from what I've seen.

And infuryum, I will continue to donate to the site (it's not much, but it's something) regardless of the CI forum. That's not what the CONTOUR forums are all about, although it is fun and can be useful.

I still vote for more than just one day off from the CI forum. Some nameless people are still not learning to keep their trap shut in lieu of creating flamebait.

Originally posted by JVT:
I think this post needs to be moved to the Common Interests forum.

And let it end with that!

Good show, everyone! Don't forget next week at Washington University in St. Louis where the debate will be Town-Hall style and moderated by my good friend Kermit. And then the week after at the University of Arizona in Tempe which will focus on domestic issues with a format similar to this one and be moderated by Renee. Don't expect to get a word in, edgewise!

(just joking, sweetheart.)

Goodnight!

Not really. But I've locked plenty of threads where I got a PM from the offending person, I explained why, and all was good.

The other reason why locking is usually more effective is because in many flamewars, its two or three or more people that all join in. Trying to PM four people to get them all to stop posting in a particular thread is frustrating at best.

Originally posted by infuryum:

Originally posted by JVT:
I think this post needs to be moved to the Common Interests forum.

And let it end with that!

Good show, everyone! Don't forget next week at Washington University in St. Louis where the debate will be Town-Hall style and moderated by my good friend Kermit. And then the week after at the University of Arizona in Tempe which will focus on domestic issues with a format similar to this one and be moderated by Renee. Don't expect to get a word in, edgewise!

(just joking, sweetheart.)

Goodnight!

Sweeet I always wanted to moderate a debate. I watched the debate on TV tonite. That was good for a buncha laughs.

And I was one of the offending people that have PM'd hetfield after having a thread locked and it be explained to me and all and everything was cool.

Originally posted by hetfield:
Not really. But I've locked plenty of threads where I got a PM from the offending person, I explained why, and all was good.

The other reason why locking is usually more effective is because in many flamewars, its two or three or more people that all join in. Trying to PM four people to get them all to stop posting in a particular thread is frustrating at best.

You were not forced to become a moderator were you?

If you accepted the position you should try your best to extinguish flames without dissrupting the forum.

Thats why your name is highlited green.

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

whatever. i'm just trying to help. you're just here to what? make me look bad? start arguments? you are the man.

Yeah. That's exactly why I'm here. Please feel free to print this page and fill out your complaint about me in clear, concise sentences in the box below. Your writing must be legible so I can see it.

[]

Grow up and realise that this is the second time that I've said I was not responding directly to you. There's no need to get all heated at people, especially over the Internet.

Common Interests was shut down because people were blatantly breaking the rules. How much more obvious does one need to be? But since everyone now knows why it was shut down (due to the Laura Bush threads and people's desire to constantly poke fun at one another) I guess we can finally lock this thread and get along with business.

On a side note, I vote that CI is permanently removed. It seems to be more of a hassle than is worth dealing with.

Originally posted by Red92784:

You were not forced to become a moderator were you?

If you accepted the position you should try your best to extinguish flames without dissrupting the forum.

And that is what he does.

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:

Originally posted by MxRacerCam:

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
If anyone really needs that deep an explanation as to why CI was removed...well they should just read this thread.

It's amazing some people don't learn, even after the fact.

whatever. i'm just trying to help. you're just here to what? make me look bad? start arguments? you are the man.

Yeah. That's exactly why I'm here. Please feel free to print this page and fill out your complaint about me in clear, concise sentences in the box below. Your writing must be legible so I can see it.

[]

Grow up and realise that this is the second time that I've said I was not responding directly to you. There's no need to get all heated at people, especially over the Internet.

Common Interests was shut down because people were blatantly breaking the rules. How much more obvious does one need to be? But since everyone now knows why it was shut down (due to the Laura Bush threads and people's desire to constantly poke fun at one another) I guess we can finally lock this thread and get along with business.

On a side note, I vote that CI is permanently removed. It seems to be more of a hassle than is worth dealing with.

Than dont go in there.

Originally posted by Red92784:
If you accepted the position you should try your best to extinguish flames without dissrupting the forum.

That's what locking is for

It's quick, effective, and the offending thread quietly sinks off of the first page. PM'ing without locking doesn't do that; the flaming continues.

We're starting to hijack the thread and now that CI is open again, we'd probably do well to move our discussion to PMs.

Originally posted by infuryum:
If anyone remembers, it was this EXACT same issue which had me upset two autumns ago. The disbandment of a forum with NO clear reason why. No matter how hard I tried, NO ONE would tell me WHY the Off-Topic forum was gone. They, in addition to the owner, simply took the stance of "don't ask and leave it alone."

ESPECIALLY if you want people to donate to the site (which I have yet to do, so I don't have a lot of room to talk, anyway), this isn't a good way to get them to do so.

I can tell you exactly why it went away two years ago.

The flaming, profanity, bickering, and posting of non-work appropriate pics had gotten so out of control, it was easier to just get rid of it than to try to clean it up. The signal-to-noise ratio was so bad, I was fed up.

Some perceived this as a power move, a blunt display of machismo that was unwarranted. I was simply sick of it and did the easiest thing. It wasn't necessarily the best thing, but I did what I felt was necessary in the amount of time I had to deal with it.

I would much rather be doing something else than dealing with this sort of thing and then justifying my actions. Tonight, I would have preferred reading about the new 7-series Panasonic plasma displays, but instead I chewed up my precious couple of free hours dealing with this crap.

-Lance