I have a Cougar with a '03 Escape engine in it. Motor only has 3500mi or so on it. Motor is stock and hasnt been apart except for the 2.5 timing cover and 2.5 valve covers.
The motor has developed a ticking, that came on rather quickly. The sound is there at idle and goes up when the motor is reved. Havent lost any oil pressure. It sounds like a HLA is going bad but Ive pulled off both valve covers and cant physically see anything wrong. all the lifters have the same amount of play in them. Turned the motor over and they are all moving properly.
I have pulled the belt off and it isnt any of the accessory pulleys making noise, and i checked the clutch bolts ( just put in a new one) and they are all tight.
I really dont want to pull the motor again and start taking stuff apart, any more ideas
I hate to say it, but this is why EVERY junkyard motor, regardless of mileage, should be pulled and torn down. I can assure you that I could very easily destroy an engine within 25 miles or less
DId you replace the rod bearings prior to dropping this motor in??????????
I bought the car with the motor all ready in it, it was built by mtang4life over on newcougar.
and its definately a metal to metal sound
Originally posted by tsSVT:
Check for exhaust leaks.
Yeah if you have a leak at one of the exhaust manifold flanges you'll hear a tick.
I've recently heard of a timing chain tensioner going bad and having chain slap occur. I don't know what it sounds like but if it comes from the front of the engine then that may help.
Originally posted by jaged:
I bought the car with the motor all ready in it, it was built by mtang4life over on newcougar.
and its definately a metal to metal sound
You got owned! 
pre-ignition?
to much heat?
Originally posted by Jared:
pre-ignition?
to much heat?
At idle? Highly unlikely!!
Stupid question but does it go away when you push in the clutch?
sorry i havent had a chance to look at it again, and wont untill sat.
the noise is still there if the clutch is pushed in or not
I have the same thing going on with my 2.5 I am very confident that mine is an exhuast leak at the manifolds, but is sure does sound like a metal on metal tick. Is it louder when the engine is under load?
lol cant really answer that one, its kinda loud when i get it under load while driving with the gutted interior and the exhaust
Originally posted by MapOfTazi ohhh right:
Originally posted by jaged:
I bought the car with the motor all ready in it, it was built by mtang4life over on newcougar.
and its definately a metal to metal sound
You got owned!
thats what i was thinking 
Quote:
Stupid question but does it go away when you push in the clutch?
You know, mine does that at idle. New Stage 2 clutch installed a year ago. Drives fine but you can really hear it, say, at a drive up window or at the bank. Any cause for alarm?
Randy
check the water pump i had that tickin sound coming out of my motor and it was the water pump going bad. the plate was spinning around inside the pump. doesnt hurt to try and see.
phil
well i has a chance to look at the car today, checked the exhaust manifolds those are good. the EGR is slightly loose but the nut is all the way tight on the header.
i did switch to a motorcraft synthetic blend oil 5-20 and its got 1k or so on it so i changed that thinking its too thin. Well that didnt help at all.
Ill check the water pump tomorrow. luckily i have one sitting in the garage if i need to change it
i would rather spend a little bit of money now to elimate some things rather that pull the motor and tear it apart and have to buy gaskets and head bolts, and then not have it be a bearing. Besides the oil change is the only money i spent on it.
I was avoiding pulling the motor back out since i just had it out to put in a clutch since the one i bought the car with wasnt enough for the motor
Originally posted by jaged:
i would rather spend a little bit of money now to elimate some things rather that pull the motor and tear it apart and have to buy gaskets and head bolts, and then not have it be a bearing. Besides the oil change is the only money i spent on it.
I was avoiding pulling the motor back out since i just had it out to put in a clutch since the one i bought the car with wasnt enough for the motor
You don't have to do that...pull the oil pan and check! 
but if it was a spun bearing wouldnt it loose oil pressure? My pressure guage hasnt change from before the ticking showed up
Originally posted by jaged:
but if it was a spun bearing wouldnt it loose oil pressure? My pressure guage hasnt change from before the ticking showed up
LOL! 
Just check the conrods themselves already! I don't want to see another post til you have done so.
obviously i havent had to deal with anything internal happening before on either of my duratecs so how bout trying to explain to me what a spun bearing sounds like. right now it sounds like a card in a bike spoke, but only metal sounding. Ive read all the FAQ's and it didnt help me had a couple mechanics listen to it at the meet at my house this past weekend and they said that it didnt sound like a bearing. Ill drop the pan and check it out, but its always better to explain stuff instead of just saying "do this"
a spun bearing is pretty unique. I think what he is saying is if you see metal shavings in the oil pan than that is from the rod knock. good luck!
Originally posted by jaged:
obviously i havent had to deal with anything internal happening before on either of my duratecs so how bout trying to explain to me what a spun bearing sounds like. right now it sounds like a card in a bike spoke, but only metal sounding. Ive read all the FAQ's and it didnt help me had a couple mechanics listen to it at the meet at my house this past weekend and they said that it didnt sound like a bearing. Ill drop the pan and check it out, but its always better to explain stuff instead of just saying "do this"
It sounds like what you are describing!!!! It doesn't matter if it is a duratec. Rod knock is rod knock! To check I would give each conrod a little jiggle to see if there is any play!
Also a spun bearing wouldn't mean that you would lose oil pressure entirely! The car wouldn't run without oil pressure! You would notice a loss of oil pressure if the pan ran dry and you weren't pumping oil. 
Originally posted by MapOfTazi ohhh right:
Originally posted by jaged:
obviously i havent had to deal with anything internal happening before on either of my duratecs so how bout trying to explain to me what a spun bearing sounds like. right now it sounds like a card in a bike spoke, but only metal sounding. Ive read all the FAQ's and it didnt help me had a couple mechanics listen to it at the meet at my house this past weekend and they said that it didnt sound like a bearing. Ill drop the pan and check it out, but its always better to explain stuff instead of just saying "do this"
It sounds like what you are describing!!!! It doesn't matter if it is a duratec. Rod knock is rod knock! To check I would give each conrod a little jiggle to see if there is any play!
Also a spun bearing wouldn't mean that you would lose oil pressure entirely! The car wouldn't run without oil pressure! You would notice a loss of oil pressure if the pan ran dry and you weren't pumping oil.
When I spun 2 rod bearings, plus 1 main bearing in my stock 2.5 I had no knocking at idle at all. It was fine until about 2800 RPM, then it sounded like it was coming apart... tick tick tick isn't typically a rod bearing sound, more of a thunk thunk thunk coming distinctly from the bottom of the engine.
To me, it sounds more like a stuck lash adjuster, or a bad follower if it's coming from the top of the engine (very easy to check with stethescope (SP?).
If the sound comes more from the middle of the engine, bad rings, or broken ring land. Can usually pick those up listening to the exhaust pipe comming from that cylinder (hard to do in a Contour).
If it does happen to be coming from the rods, you can check that with a stethescope without removing a single part as well by listening to the pan at different points with the engine at idle (with the car properly supported by stands of course).
the def of a thunk and a tick are open to interpretation I suppose. But spending money on oil thinking the problem is just going to fix itself is a waste.
well i drove it to work and then over to where i work on the car and it changed from a ticking(like a bad lifter tick) to a thunk. Pulled the oil pan, saw the shavings, took off some more stuff and found that on the #3 cylinder i had spun a bearing.
Originally posted by jaged:
well i drove it to work and then over to where i work on the car and it changed from a ticking(like a bad lifter tick) to a thunk. Pulled the oil pan, saw the shavings, took off some more stuff and found that on the #3 cylinder i had spun a bearing.
OUCH . You going to build another one?
Aaron
yes, im looking at pricing now and weighing my options on rebuilding or getting a new short block. its the time frame thats killing me right now. getting married in just over 2 weeks followed up by cougarfest
Originally posted by jaged:
well i drove it to work and then over to where i work on the car and it changed from a ticking(like a bad lifter tick) to a thunk. Pulled the oil pan, saw the shavings, took off some more stuff and found that on the #3 cylinder i had spun a bearing.
You should seriously be gettting some $$$$$$$ back from the ass that sold u the car. 
Originally posted by MapOfTazi ohhh right:
Originally posted by jaged:
well i drove it to work and then over to where i work on the car and it changed from a ticking(like a bad lifter tick) to a thunk. Pulled the oil pan, saw the shavings, took off some more stuff and found that on the #3 cylinder i had spun a bearing.
You should seriously be gettting some $$$$$$$ back from the ass that sold u the car.
why? he purchased the car almost five months ago, the previous seller wouldn't have anything to do with it at this point. this isn't a situation like trevor's and his contour.
good luck Jason, hopefully you get it back on the road in time for fest!
Think back....what did I say some years ago about the bad warranty on Escape engine?...Remember the 'sand' issue....the damaged main bearings...the warnings to avoid Escape engines due to a casting sand retention issue?quality problems at the foundry and an 'internal' Ford report I have that discribes the sand retention and the cleaning etc that Ford tried to do to fix it...and that 'some' of these engines/blocks ended up on the market 'cheap'...think back...ring a bell huh!!!
Originally posted by j99coug:
Originally posted by MapOfTazi ohhh right:
Originally posted by jaged:
well i drove it to work and then over to where i work on the car and it changed from a ticking(like a bad lifter tick) to a thunk. Pulled the oil pan, saw the shavings, took off some more stuff and found that on the #3 cylinder i had spun a bearing.
You should seriously be gettting some $$$$$$$ back from the ass that sold u the car.
why? he purchased the car almost five months ago, the previous seller wouldn't have anything to do with it at this point. this isn't a situation like trevor's and his contour.
good luck Jason, hopefully you get it back on the road in time for fest!
I thought he had JUST gotten it.
Ask Buckshot...what he found in a 3.0 cylinder head
oil gallery some months ago when he removed the
'plug'....SAND!.Ask 'mikey' what I warned him about
during his 3.0 swap that was called off...SAND!...Who
has fitted a suspect Escape engine and not checked the
bottom end,or removed the plugs from the head oil
galleries?...Who has had failures with Escape engines
bought 'cheap'....not so damm cheap now are they!!!And
FWIW even the Ford fix of 'trying' to shotblast the
sand out of the main oil galleries DOES NOT remove all
the Zircon sand(per data from report)...still a risk
of it 'shifting' during service and damage to bearings
etc.....but who cares...cheap is good right!!!!
Thus why I went with a 99 Taurus block & 01 Escape Oval Port heads (fully rebuilt). Too bad I have to sell it
Originally posted by MapOfTazi ohhh right:
I thought he had JUST gotten it.
no harm, no foul. i apologize if i came off as a little abrasive in my post.
which year blocks were prone to zircon contamination? just the '03's?
Originally posted by todras:
Ask Buckshot...what he found in a 3.0 cylinder head
oil gallery some months ago when he removed the
'plug'....SAND!.Ask 'mikey' what I warned him about
during his 3.0 swap that was called off...SAND!...Who
has fitted a suspect Escape engine and not checked the
bottom end,or removed the plugs from the head oil
galleries?...Who has had failures with Escape engines
bought 'cheap'....not so damm cheap now are they!!!And
FWIW even the Ford fix of 'trying' to shotblast the
sand out of the main oil galleries DOES NOT remove all
the Zircon sand(per data from report)...still a risk
of it 'shifting' during service and damage to bearings
etc.....but who cares...cheap is good right!!!!
I swear, reading Terry's ramlbings of incomplete sentances in emails and board posts are sometimes like listing to Larry King's random thoughts on the Bob and Tom show. I fully expect to read someday "...went to the zoo yesterday, saw a baboon's red ass, thought it was funny... going back tomorrow..."
Originally posted by bnoon:
I swear, reading Terry's ramlbings of incomplete sentances in emails and board posts are sometimes like listing to Larry King's random thoughts on the Bob and Tom show. I fully expect to read someday "...went to the zoo yesterday, saw a baboon's red ass, thought it was funny... going back tomorrow..."
this is a common trait shared by all Terrys
the only thing i found in the oil pan was metal shavings
the block has a build date of oct 02. I would like to know as well what years the sand issue was in. If i can find a taurus motor cheap i might just swap out the pan and cams. the escape cams seem to have more torque at the lower end wich fits my autox needs more, but i may be wrong in this though
Well, I don't know about the new escape blocks but if you get one with a few miles on it and then go through it properly you will likely not have any problems.
BTW, sometimes these rods spin bearings....it has been happening on contours for years and has been known as the "oil starvation issue".
So it isn't new, it isn't completely unexpected for one to pop up especially when you don't know the build details.
IMO if you buy duratec based contour or 3L adapted contour from someone and you don't know the public history of the the engine/car? Plan on taking the time to pull the pan and do a bearing inspection. THe worst it will cost you is a couple of hours and some new rod bolts that are easy enough to pop into the caps. If you are at it with a little time and energy and you mic the crank to find the diameters, you can install better quality clevite77 bearings for a little extra insurance.
At this point, post a picture of the damaged crank journal so we can see....just out of curiosity. One of us may be able to recommend a course of action based on how damaged it is.
Originally posted by warmonger:
Well, I don't know about the new escape blocks but if you get one with a few miles on it and then go through it properly you will likely not have any problems.
BTW, sometimes these rods spin bearings....it has been happening on contours for years and has been known as the "oil starvation issue".
So it isn't new, it isn't completely unexpected for one to pop up especially when you don't know the build details.
IMO if you buy duratec based contour or 3L adapted contour from someone and you don't know the public history of the the engine/car? Plan on taking the time to pull the pan and do a bearing inspection. THe worst it will cost you is a couple of hours and some new rod bolts that are easy enough to pop into the caps. If you are at it with a little time and energy and you mic the crank to find the diameters, you can install better quality clevite77 bearings for a little extra insurance.
At this point, post a picture of the damaged crank journal so we can see....just out of curiosity. One of us may be able to recommend a course of action based on how damaged it is.
Oil starvation on a full oval port!? No way. I've cranked my engine to 6k on hard right handers and I've watched my oil pressure stay constant!
Tell that to my last engine.
TH...
....well SOME of us have never subscribed to it as
being an oil starvation problem on ANY V6
Duratech...but then again the masses decide, right!LOL
Originally posted by todras:
Tell that to my last engine.
Oil starvation how?! In 50 miles what happened todd?!
I think that was builder error...did you prime the engine before you started it up?!
the last autox had 2 360* turns
here's a pic of the damage, not the greatest however
Well that certainly looks repairable.
Maybe a sharper image will tell for certain.
Originally posted by todras:
Tell that to my last engine.
TH...
....well SOME of us have never subscribed to it as
being an oil starvation problem on ANY V6
Duratech...but then again the masses decide, right!LOL
Actually Terry was one of the people that brought a lot of information on oil starvation to light in the beginning. He suggested the use of Accusumps, suggested the use of clevite77 bearings (a good one I might add 
)to give a bit more durability, and also suggested it might be crank whip and caused a mass movement to buy DMDs...that has now been retracted as apparently making no impact on spun bearings.
Since no one knows why for sure except that many people get oil light flashing minutes before the bearings go, it seems to have settled back to oil sloshing in the pan during sweeping turns as a likely cause.
