Has everyone seen this? This might be a repost, but what the hey!
Duratec 35 It states that the Duratec 3.5L will be of the same dimensions of the Duratec 3.0L, which subsequently has the same dimensions of the Duratec 2.5L. So you see where I'm going with this.
The way I read it though, was that they were going to be adding iVVT. A post in this thread states that the Mazda may pickup the iVVT. If the Ford 3.5L Duratec doesn't have it, what do you guys think the chances are that we'll see this as another option for the Contour? It says right in the article that this is another option for current Duratec vehicles.
Mark
My understanding was the the 'new' line of Duratecs (2.3L, 3.5L, etc) were no way related to the 'old' Duratecs?
Also, it says same physical dimensions, I don't see a reference to bore/stroke, and those types of dimensions...
Yes, we'll definitely need some more info. I was going off of their statement that says that the engine can be used in cars that accept the 3.0L Duratec. Whether they are talking about the Taurus/Sable/Escape, or the Mazda 6 and Fusion 3.0L.
Mark
I don't think it will mate to the mtx75
Here is a link from within that thread w/ engine specs. It has bore/stroke etc...
link
My understanding is that Jaguar will be the target car for this front wheel drive engine in 2006.. This will be equipped with a six-speed paddle shifting automatic.. I can't wait, I'll get it shoe-horned into the Cougar or die trying.
I have a Duratech 35 timing cover herer at work (we make the cranks shaft seals for it) and I can tell you that there's nol way in hell our "between the heads" mount will fit between the banks.
We are talking about dropping in a completely different (forge) block than the 2.5L/3.0L based cars, so considering what all is involved with that, why not just fabricate a new mount?
Sure - you can do that - but the biggest hurdle is the connection to the transaxle. That's something I wouldn't bother with.
Turbo + 3L (or 2.5L) >> Duratec 3.5L
Originally posted by Stazi:
Sure - you can do that - but the biggest hurdle is the connection to the transaxle. That's something I wouldn't bother with.
Turbo + 3L (or 2.5L) >> Duratec 3.5L
I guess I read the article wrong about using the 3.5L in vehicles that already use the 3.0L Duratec. I took it as, you could swap the 3.5L into a vehicle that currently holds the 3.0L, when in actuality, they meant that they made it the same size so they could start producing the same cars(Mazda 6 and Fusion) to hold the 3.5L without having to mess with the subframe, mounts, etc. Mainly so they don't have to reinvent the wheel.
I guess I'll just have to look into buying a Fusion down the road if/when they come out with a manual tranny. This motor looks like it has some serious potential!
Mark
Originally posted by Stazi:
Turbo + 3L (or 2.5L) >> Duratec 3.5L
Compared to the compition of similar size, the 3.5L is actually pretty weak. Ford needs to step up to the plate and put some power in their lineup! Their designs are "blah" and their power is lacking ... Ford better pick it up of they will drop a spot in market share to Toyota.
Originally posted by fastcougar:
Originally posted by Stazi:
Turbo + 3L (or 2.5L) >> Duratec 3.5L
Compared to the compition of similar size, the 3.5L is actually pretty weak. Ford needs to step up to the plate and put some power in their lineup! Their designs are "blah" and their power is lacking ... Ford better pick it up of they will drop a spot in market share to Toyota.
I disagree. Who is making a 3.5L engine that totally eclipses the Duratec 3.5L in HP & TQ? And we're talking about midsize sedans here, so I'd rather not here the likes of 350Z's. The Lexus IS is the only one that comes to mind with it's 306hp. Then again, I believe they are starting in a bit of a higher price range. Sure there are a few that make 260 or maybe even 270HP, but the technology in the Duratec 35 looks much more advanced than those with the extra 10-20HP.
Mark
Why not Contact Bill J. he could probobly give specs on the trannies boilt pattern to see if the MTX-75 will even bolt up.
hmmm ... 1 full liter more of displacement and all this "technology" and all they can squeeze out of it more than a 2.5L SVT engine is 45hp (205 vs. 250)? That is weak! The only saving grace in this example is the torque, but that is definitely a byproduct of the displacement boost and nothing to do with the "technology".
It's almost as weak as Ford's advertising department
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Ford fan, but they have got to wake up. Toyota is STRONG on their heals and making ho-hum cars with less power than the compition is not the way to do battle for the #2 spot. 2 years ago, I wouldn't be caught dead in Toyota Avalon, but now ... well, the car is just sexy and has power on tap and returns great fuel mileage while putting a smile on owners faces.
Originally posted by fastcougar:
hmmm ... 1 full liter more of displacement and all this "technology" and all they can squeeze out of it more than a 2.5L SVT engine is 45hp (205 vs. 250)? That is weak! The only saving grace in this example is the torque, but that is definitely a byproduct of the displacement boost and nothing to do with the "technology".
SVT 2.5L = 200HP, not 205HP. 
There's also a lot of untapped power with this motor, and a lot of potential. Ford specifically made this motor with a possible forced induction in mind. Will you think the same if in 3 years they come out with a 350HP option?
Originally posted by fastcougar:
It's almost as weak as Ford's advertising department
Ford's trucks pretty much sell themselves.
Perhaps you think that I am down on the motor ... I'm not ... I'm down on the way that Ford is presenting the motor. I know that the potential is there, but it's coming to market with a big f'ing cork in it.
Gotcha.. I thought you were pretty much stamping this motor with a big X.. I personally can't wait until it's available in the Fusion and aftermarket parts are available..
Mark
a better apples -> apples comparison would be the non-SVT 2.5 to that 3.5. This isn't an SVT 3.5L
non-SVT makes 165-170 hp?
Not only that, someone in pics and videos showed his pontiac with GM's new 3.5L and it is rated at 200/201 hp/tq.
Hello, welcome to Fords 97+ duratec 3.0's???
Also, in the higher price range where the LS 3.0 and the Jag 3.0, both pumping out more standard HP.
The Jag was what... 240HP?
Level of car, traction, shifting comfort, etc. all have to do with the power of the motor. I'd bet that the fusion 3.5L is detuned for a smaller more base engine so that they can afford to use a cheaper transmission and drivetrain.
If/when it pops up in the higher end models it will be pumping closer to 300 I bet.
Let's not forget that this is a PZEV engine. That means that there is probably 30-40 HP to be found just from I/E mods alone (remember when the Focus 2.3L PZEV was modded?). Add to that the better gas mileage than the competition and the 250 HP starts sounding pretty good.
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I disagree. Who is making a 3.5L engine that totally eclipses the Duratec 3.5L in HP & TQ? And we're talking about midsize sedans here, so I'd rather not here the likes of 350Z's.
G35 - 298HP
Maxima - 270HP
Altima - 265HP
A Honda Minivan - 247HP 
A freakin' Saturn - 240HP 
The 250HP / 240TQ rating Ford is estimating for it's "future" release is already noticeably behind the "current" bell curve.
Then compare the build quality "around" those engines compared to a Ford. 'nuff said.
BMW 3.0 255 hp
BMW 3.2 333 hp
Hyundai 3.3 235 hp
Demon,
I'm not familiar with all the vehicles listed, but which of the vehicles on your list run (fine) with 87 octane like I think the base Duratec 35 will? There is a Ford "insider" on autoweek.com that says a ST version of the Fusion will be coming along with the Duratec 3.5 putting out at least 270hp. I assume alot of it will come from tuning for premium.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
G35 - 298HP
Maxima - 270HP
Altima - 265HP
A Honda Minivan - 247HP
A freakin' Saturn - 240HP
G35 - $31,050 - $33,100
Maxima - $27,750 - $30,000
Altima - $24,105 - $27,905
Honda Minivan - Doesn't apply, it's a minivan!
Saturn - Ion Redline??? That's not a sedan either!
Originally posted by stilov:
BMW 3.0 255 hp
BMW 3.2 333 hp
Hyundai 3.3 235 hp
BMW 3.0 - $43,195 - $59,095
BMW 3.2 - Couldn't find it, can imagine it's only more expensive than the 3.0
Hyundai - $17,895 - $22,895
Fusion - Currently $17,145 - $22,980
Out of the 5 above cars that I could find prices for, and that actually qualify to be in the same category as the Fusion, I averaged the BASE PRICE of all of them. Average base price is $28,799. The average HP between those 5 same vehicles is 264.6HP! Is that extra 16.4HP worth the extra ~$6-11k extra you'll spend for it?
All $$$$ figures come from edmonds.com.
Mark
Personally I'd like to see one off a dyno and examine the curve, seeing as it's a brand new engine design.
By the way ... don't forget to consider that this is pre-release info. No doubt in a couple of years there will be a 2nd generation with a small boost to the power. Reliability must surely becoming before eeking more power out of the motor at the moment, wouldn't surprise me if the 250 is a very conservative figure for what's possible, just so they can let it on the road for three years 'and see what happens'.
The BMW 3.2 I6 is in the '02, M3, my brother owns one it is a great engine in a very expensive car.
ya I was just throwing stuff out there...they are all more expensive.
look at it like this though
standard 2.5 was 170
standard 3.0 was 200
standard 3.5 is 250
seems about right???
Originally posted by ghodge:
Demon,
I'm not familiar with all the vehicles listed, but which of the vehicles on your list run (fine) with 87 octane like I think the base Duratec 35 will? There is a Ford "insider" on autoweek.com that says a ST version of the Fusion will be coming along with the Duratec 3.5 putting out at least 270hp. I assume alot of it will come from tuning for premium.
Yeah, but it's behind a 6 speed ATX designed by the same group no doubt that designed the CD4E, so what's your point? If the ST doesn't come with a rowable tranny option, I think I will have to give up on Ford.
I drove an '02 M3 with the SMG transmission with the paddles. You can even put it in neutral! I drove it for about a month and liked how it shifted in auto mode, so I didn't use the paddles much, except to "exhibit." If Ford designed a similar tranny, I'd be happy with it.
Originally posted by muntus:
Ford designed a similar tranny, I'd be happy with it.
Care to revisit this ... if it was built by Ford, it would probably break at least once a year and cost roughly $2,500 each time to fix it
Wasn't there a press release about Ford having trouble designing a manual tranny for the ST Focus ? Something about not finding anything to stand up to the power.
Originally posted by fastcougar:
Originally posted by muntus:
Ford designed a similar tranny, I'd be happy with it.
Care to revisit this ... if it was built by Ford, it would probably break at least once a year and cost roughly $2,500 each time to fix it
Sounds like a BMW after the warranty runs out.
I share your desire in wanting a manual transmission. That is the reason I got tired of waiting and got the S60R. I believe the auto transmission will be the one developed jointly with GM so who knows how it will turn out. The current 6 speed auto is made by Aisin, a Toyota affiliate.
Dudes, 250HP on 87. This is the low end of capabilities. This engine was also designed with forced induction and direct injection in mind. Clearly it will hold its on to Nissan's 3.5, admittedly late in the game, but better late than never.
This is what I found. From this source, it says the engine output could reach 300 hp. Also, a 3.8 liter version is possible too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine#Duratec_35
When's this going to be available? I'm itching to get my hands on one.
The greatest thing to ever happen would be the engine was put in the mustang. Parts would not be in short supply then.
Originally posted by myfastse:
The greatest thing to ever happen would be the engine was put in the mustang. Parts would not be in short supply then.
Why because parts for our car are that hard to find!? 
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Originally posted by myfastse:
The greatest thing to ever happen would be the engine was put in the mustang. Parts would not be in short supply then.
Why because parts for our car are that hard to find!?
I was thinking more along the lines of cost and options.
I think you all are forgeting the fact that ford is run by a bunch of scared nancy boys,they don't have the balls to put that much HP in anything other than the mustang.They are toafraid to put their necks out there and do something people like.Ford doesn't do anything differant until GM trys it first.Don't get me wrong I work at a ford dealer,and I know ford has the know-how and the ability to do all these things,but it's highly likely they won't.
Don't forget that this is about an engine in a FWD car.There is a reason you don't see many FWD cars with over 260HP.
Originally posted by tsSVT:
I think you all are forgeting the fact that ford is run by a bunch of scared nancy boys,they don't have the balls to put that much HP in anything other than the mustang.They are toafraid to put their necks out there and do something people like.Ford doesn't do anything differant until GM trys it first.Don't get me wrong I work at a ford dealer,and I know ford has the know-how and the ability to do all these things,but it's highly likely they won't.
Don't forget that this is about an engine in a FWD car.There is a reason you don't see many FWD cars with over 260HP.
Ford can do it...but cost drives the prices of their cars and ppl don't want to pay a large premium for a high hp fwd ford that depreciates worse than a house in New Orleans. 
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Originally posted by tsSVT:
I think you all are forgeting the fact that ford is run by a bunch of scared nancy boys,they don't have the balls to put that much HP in anything other than the mustang.They are toafraid to put their necks out there and do something people like.Ford doesn't do anything differant until GM trys it first.Don't get me wrong I work at a ford dealer,and I know ford has the know-how and the ability to do all these things,but it's highly likely they won't.
Don't forget that this is about an engine in a FWD car.There is a reason you don't see many FWD cars with over 260HP.
Ford can do it...but cost drives the prices of their cars and ppl don't want to pay a large premium for a high hp fwd ford that depreciates worse than a house in New Orleans.
I didn't say they couldn't do it,they are more than capable.I was stating that it is highly likely that they won't.
The reason that price drives their desicions is because of all the over payed people in the boardroom that are to afraid to put their necks out there and take a chance.
A few pieces of info into fords problems.Bill ford received a $20 million dollar bonus for 2004.ford stock was at $9 per share I believe.54% of every new car sale goes to paying retired board members.Meanwhile back in the real world ford stock is at $7.
I don't mean to rant about Ford I love my car,I like most of the vehicles they make,but the simple fact of the matter is Ford probably won't do as much with the 3.5 as everyone thinks they will.I really wish they would though,I'd like to see them take a chance and be sucessful.
Let's just hope it takes well to mods. If Ford doesn't do much with it, maybe the aftermarket will
Supercharged 3.5L AWD Fusion, if ford drops the ball on this one than i dont know what the hell they are thinking. Need more SVT people running ford and more Ford people running the machines in the factory.
On a similar note does anyone know if the Duratec out of the 500s will work??
Originally posted by giddyup306:
On a similar note does anyone know if the Duratec out of the 500s will work??
For our purposes no...
Originally posted by Tourige:
Supercharged 3.5L AWD Fusion, if ford drops the ball on this one than i dont know what the hell they are thinking. Need more SVT people running ford and more Ford people running the machines in the factory.
I would bet money on the SVT version having AWD... if an SVT version ever materializes.
Originally posted by Bronco_SVT:
Originally posted by Tourige:
Supercharged 3.5L AWD Fusion, if ford drops the ball on this one than i dont know what the hell they are thinking. Need more SVT people running ford and more Ford people running the machines in the factory.
I would bet money on the SVT version having AWD... if an SVT version ever materializes.
me too...cause it'll prob just be a fusionized version of the mazdaspeed 6
Originally posted by Marky:
The BMW 3.2 I6 is in the '02, M3, my brother owns one it is a great engine in a very expensive car.
Well that pulls the 3.2L out of the comparison. You cannot compare an I to a V. They are not the same animal.
What about comparing a V to a W.
I just picked up a Passat W8 for my wife. Engine configuration is very odd. It's a 8 cylindar smaller than most 6 cylindars.