A picture is worth a thousand words (and questions), but that is all we have at this time.
Further pictures can be found here (Their images do not allow hotlinking):
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=2507
Wagner is producing this upper intake manifold for the oval port 3.0Ls and will have a price and full specs and of course more pictures very soon. Keep your eye on Wagner..
Is this upper and lower? Very cool
is this feasable for our cars or no way
for a 3L...and maybe some hoodwork.
Knowing where the top of the plastic UIM on the 6 resides at, I can venture a very safe guess this sits even lower than that, so if you can fit the 3.0L plastic UIM. You could fit this.
That is an ugly engine bay!
What is their number ? this may be the solution to my problems... I can run the lower intake with the center injectors and have a awesome upper intake..
Is it just me or is anyone else wondering what the benefits of this are? I need to see an internal pic to decide if this is just worthless or just looks ugly but works.
their site is
www.wagnermotorsports.net I think this is a turbo manifold....
Where is the port runner length???
I don't see any at all?
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Where is the port runner length???
I don't see any at all?
Manifold is made for boost, no runner length needed. It just looks to be an open chamber with about 1.5" to 2" stubs connecting to a lower...
If he ground the welds down and polished it, it would look HOT!
Yes that is Kit's (KitZ here) twin turbo 6 and yes the manifold is made for boost, so DemonSVT need not apply until he finally gives into the temptation
Originally posted by Twisted6:
so DemonSVT need not apply until he finally gives into the temptation
BBBBBAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 
Heheheh.
I suppose it is fine and it will look better all smooth and etched or powder coated.
I wouldn't mind doing a before and after dyno of it to see what happens with it. The large common plenum seems irrelevant for on boost operation and of course for offboost operation I think it would be less than optimal. I imagine they did the design as simple as possible with something that would cover all the lower intake holes.
Originally posted by warmonger:
Heheheh.
I suppose it is fine and it will look better all smooth and etched or powder coated.
I wouldn't mind doing a before and after dyno of it to see what happens with it. The large common plenum seems irrelevant for on boost operation and of course for offboost operation I think it would be less than optimal. I imagine they did the design as simple as possible with something that would cover all the lower intake holes.
Im not the only one I guess.
anyone want my custom tubular intake manifold with custom spacer for an exact fit. I am getting one of these
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
anyone want my custom tubular intake manifold with custom spacer for an exact fit. I am getting one of these
yup!!!
make an offer....and remember this thing is the actual prototype for our svt but the runners are TUBULAR not OVULAR for better flow
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
but the runners are TUBULAR not OVULAR for better flow
That's not a true statement though.
An extrude honed intake would have better flow characteristics then a similiarly set up tubular because the inner ports are cut and smoothed just like the air would flow.
It would also have the ability to be made better by maximizes the honing.
With a cast EH'd manifold there are no multiple angles.
No multiple weld joints.
No sharp corners.
Et cetera...
Tubular does not necessarily mean better in any design.
Check out my website. I have good information and theory on port size, shape, and manifold types.
It's been updated recently and I'm putting more on my notes online again.
There are no sharp corners.
weld joints are smoothed out in side it.
This was extrude honed.
We are talking about my tubular intake right?
It is known tubular flows better than ovular
I had it on my car and noticed a huge difference down low and up top in the rpm range.
demon what do you think about the design of wagners intake? It seems like a simple design. You could pretty easily imagine the inside. looks pretty sweet. I really am thinking of buying one. He of course would grind down the welds and clean it up a bit.
i dont like the looks of it..i am cuurently designing my own custom aluminum manifold based on the one shown in the link below. (its for a mustang) runner length is the thing that has me, or does it not matter w/ a turbo.
http://www.need-4-speed.com/proturbo.htm
also anyone look under performance engines and see eagle H-beam rods & JE pistons for under $400..wunder if their for the duratec?
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
make an offer....and remember this thing is the actual prototype for our svt but the runners are TUBULAR not OVULAR for better flow
pm me and we'll talk 
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
There are no sharp corners.
weld joints are smoothed out in side it.
This was extrude honed.
We are talking about my tubular intake right?
It is known tubular flows better than ovular
I had it on my car and noticed a huge difference down low and up top in the rpm range.
Any time you weld it together there are seems ,corner, and angles. Period!
Extrude honed tubular intake.
It's a fact the prototype manifold did no better then an extrude honed stock split port.
Also with extrude honing you are certain the airflow to each respective port is the same.
You're just making this shtuff up as you go along aren't you. 
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
demon what do you think about the design of wagners intake? It seems like a simple design. You could pretty easily imagine the inside.
I don't like it personally.
Also how can you imagine the inside.
You can't see how the runners are attached to the plenum.
I don't see that being a good design at all personally. Then it's said it was built for a turbo...
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
(It's a fact the prototype manifold did no better then an extrude honed stock split port.)
Where might you be getting your (facts) from? Watson engineering? Otherwise is not stated anywhere.
I have personally drove the car with it on and felt the differences. This manifold is about 2/3 the weight of the svt upper intake shaving some weight off the car. Either way its lighter, tubular and one of a kind and don't forget looks awesome. If it flowed the same as the svt manifold then there is still something to gain.
i really don't think weight savings off of your UIM will actually enhance your performance. . .the SVT UIM isn't that heavy for an all aluminium UIM anyways, and most importantly, for people like Demon and myself who've EH'ed the crap out of it, there isn't much left in there!!!
I wish I would've measured pre and post dyno measurements of the extra EHing on my UIM, but alas, one could only surmise that the extra smooth lining inside (which THAT design CERTAINLY doesn't have) can only enhance the flow. . . .
You can kind of see the runners in one of the pics. There short, obviously good for turbo, and what I can make out, the center "plate" section,or what maybe a plenum, just appears to be a cover if anything. Looks basicly like a tube welded around all of the ports, failry similar to a 2.5 manifold, but picture it with small runners only. Hard to tell but the tubing appears to be a little on the large side, I guess depends on what he is trying to accomplish. Not the best looking thing around, but if it works.....
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Hard to tell but the tubing appears to be a little on the large side, I guess depends on what he is trying to accomplish.
That is true.
It's definitely possible it's better then the stock 6 manifolds for what he wants to do with it.
I'm just saying it definitely leaves a lot to be desired. It is not what I would build personally.
This is just the tubes welded to the plates for the wagner intake manifold. I will have pictures on here as the project progresses. The runners will be smooth with the plates once it is done.
I dont like how those tubes are all bent up. I think they could have taken some more time to make something symetrical.
Damn those are some downright ugly shaped and non-uniform pipes.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Damn those are some downright ugly shaped and non-uniform pipes.
Yeah doesn't look too good to me either .
yeah almost like 6 soda cans cut in half then cored and welded to fit
send that thing back to the manu. and tell them to make it right
i don't have it and its not even close to being done yet.
Hey svt prodigy.. i applaud you for going ahead and modding the shizz out of your Csvt and trying new things that may work in the long run but dont be a guppy to the new things that are thrown out there on the market. Untill that intake manifold has been tested and tested and tested its going to have manu. flaws. as you see in the pics of the LM plate. If i were you id point those things out to the person making this and make sure they correct the issue before they just waste their time and your money when they have to redesign it. Once again its your money. put it to good use.. I hope your cars come out really good aside from all of the things that are going on and i cant wait to see pics of everything when its finally put together.
this is true. Things are moving along. TH is going to do my tranny. Stazi is going to drive 200 miles to come help get everything together. What a guy! The pistons are done. Just waiting for the arp studs. Tryin to make it to sz with my car running, but we will see.
Unless Wagner plans on selling this thing to the general public, I highly doubt they'll be putting in the necessary R&D for the optimal design. Seems to me this effort is an effort to get something "better" than the stock plastic one for forced induction.
Wagner is however planning on marketing and building a T/C kit for the V6 Mazda 6. So I'm not sure if this will be an option with that kit or if this is just a way to make a few bucks off of some customers who need some custom fabrication done.
They are going to be making a cast version of this manifold from what he has told me.
As far as I know from these "bent pipes" and "ugliness" Kit has made gains over the stock plastic UIM and aluminum LIM with his TT Mazda6.
To answer your question prodigy, as of right now I don't see anything for Andrew to improve upon in the design that won't already be when they move to the cast version.
Originally posted by Twisted6:
As far as I know from these "bent pipes" and "ugliness" Kit has made gains over the stock plastic UIM and aluminum LIM with his TT Mazda6.
Thats not to hard to beleive. The shorter runners would realy help. Plus the bent pipes won't realy cause any problem in this case as with F/I the air is being forced past it anyway. Now N/A, different story.
Good luck with that.
Mark
Looks like a good F/I setup, but off=boost it's going to feel like a turd - and with that T3/4 you've got it's going to be lag-city!
Originally posted by Stazi:
and with that T3/4 you've got it's going to be lag-city!
He's got a full T4.. Make that Lag-County
Mark
Interesting... he got it sitting in the back of his shop on top of his awd dyno
why do you say good luck with that
?
Why would i get alot of lag with this manifold?
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
why do you say good luck with that ?
I mean good luck .
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
Why would i get alot of lag with this manifold?
As was mentioned numerous times, you're going to get lag from your T4.
Mark
Extremely short and wide intake runners, and the main plenum is HUGE, so the intake velocity prior to boost coming on will be VERY slow. Torque is directly proportional to intake velocity.
Originally posted by Stazi:
Extremely short and wide intake runners, and the main plenum is HUGE, so the intake velocity prior to boost coming on will be VERY slow. Torque is directly proportional to intake velocity.
I think the pictures might be deceiving(sp), as you can see the increase in size going to the Tb inlet, you can't get much smaller than that. But if it is larger, I agree about the lag and plenum issue. Overall, looks promising.
How much of that low RPM torque does a turbocharged FWD Contour or Mazda 6 put down anyway? NONE! Most already spin through third gear if they're running right... Want to add more low end so that they spin even easier? Why? To many dyno queens complaining...
I can't wait till i get in the twelves...
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
I can't wait till i get in the twelves...
I'd just be hoping to get my car put together. 12's can come later.
Mark
naaahhhhh i would rather think ahead...keeps me from getting too depressed...been with out my car for almost a year now because of all the bull...12,s are on the way...
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
12,s are on the way...
How about sending some money on the way($25) and coming to hang out at Spring Zing! If cruising around with 40+ Contours doesn't give you the motivation to get your car done, nothing will!
Mark
I am hoping to have it there...
This is the back side of the manifold. Iac fitting and three vacumm ports. As you can see the plates on the bottom are not flat with the table. At first that scared me but you can adjust each side and they are perfectly level. The aluminum is separate to stop heat transfer to get closer to the engine. even though i am going with a plastic lim "for now" it should still help.
This is the where all the air is going to be forced in to.
The intake up side down picture. I still need to clean this up a bit but it will do for now.
Why did they block half the TB opening???
That makes absolutely NO sense at all!
...and this manifold is custom made.
The inner port from plenum to base plate outlet is terrible. It needs A LOT of work.
I totally respect the ammount of time that went into this manifold. I respect the guy willing to try this, but I still think its not a very good design.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Why did they block half the TB opening???
That makes absolutely NO sense at all!
...and this manifold is custom made.
The inner port from plenum to base plate outlet is terrible. It needs A LOT of work.
thats the same thing i thought. i was looking at the TB opening and as the pis was loading im like ok... ok.... ok... WALL!!
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Why did they block half the TB opening???
That makes absolutely NO sense at all!
I thought the same thing when I looked at the 1999 3.0L split port UIM and 2001+ 3.0L plastic UIM... They all have that same upwards "slope".
Well, if this is a custom manifold, why stick with the round T.B. opening? Personally, I would have went for a Cobra-style oval T.B. and opening, might have matched better to the intake.
Since this has never been done before, I applaud you for trying new avenues to make power. I guess what is really needed is to see the manifold in action and a comparrison to a stock oval port intake to determine any benefits.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Why did they block half the TB opening???
That makes absolutely NO sense at all!
...and this manifold is custom made.
The inner port from plenum to base plate outlet is terrible. It needs A LOT of work.
The throttle body is not blocked...It looks like it is in the picture. The incline will create a flow pattern for the forced incoming air. Look at the picture of the whole thing. The actual incline is really not that steep or resrictiong in any way.
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
Look at the picture of the whole thing.
Do you think you could size the pictures accordingly?
I don't need the "actual size" pictures.
Mark
I think it's a pretty good design. Once the air gets past the TB, it goes from tall and skinny, to short and wide. It looks like the air is just going to change shape, and the velocity isn't going to change. If anything, there might be a LITTLE bit of low pressure on the cyl 3 and 6 if the air jumps over those two ports. Maybe put a small dent in the top to channel some air down toward 3&6. You will definately need to test flow all 6 ports to make sure you have balanced air delivery. Rather tricky. Good luck!
Do you need to balance it if the air is being forced in?
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
how do you test flow?
Put it on a flow bench.
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
Do you need to balance it if the air is being forced in?
how do you test flow?
Yes, otherwise some cyls get more air than others. Force and pull are the same effect. You have one side that has less pressure than the other (it's all relative)
Second, you use a flow bench for each runner. Worse case scenario, you can get a motorcycle vacuum carb tuner (two of them in this case) and suck air through all six runners at once (maybe hook it up to another car's intake, or something that sucks a LOT). You just might see some variations. If you do, you need to adjust something and might be worthwhile to use a flowbench.
how much boost are you going to be running? as those runners have (from what i can see) no ridges to stop the rubber pipes poping off.
Drew
Holy resurrected thread batman!!
did it work?
Drew
The owner disappeared into thin air due to his eyes being bigger than his pockets.
Wow. Look at all the cool [censored] I missed being in Iraq!
I think that manifold design is a TERRIBLY expensive and piss poor way to do what ford already did with the 3L Taurus/Escape manifolds; basically give all six runners equal access to a common plenum! Not to mention the new manifolds are all plastic if you are worried about heat flow.
Dumb and costly, especially considering the restriction from the throttle body inlet to the narrow box. There is a reason a cylinder is more efficient than a square box at flowing liquids(air).
The corners will stall out lots of air reducing the effective area that the flowing air will actually "see", the narrow opening will create quite a bit of drag even thought the surface area is high.
I have better manifold concept sketches at home in my notebook.
Originally posted by Stazi:
The owner disappeared into thin air due to his eyes being bigger than his pockets.
Hehe, too funny!
Originally posted by warmonger:
... There is a reason a cylinder is more efficient than a square box at flowing FLUIDS(air)...
Fixed
Right!
Damn I better either get off the drugs or get on more of them.
Originally posted by Scotch4Breakfast:
Originally posted by warmonger:
... There is a reason a cylinder is more efficient than a square box at flowing Single Malt Scotch(air)...
Fixed
Now it's ideal!
so never tested it then.
needs a few tweeks but the idea is good.
Drew
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Originally posted by Stazi:
The owner disappeared into thin air due to his eyes being bigger than his pockets.
Hehe, too funny!
No i just bought a sc300 in the mean time to mess with. I have deeper pockets than you may think. I have had problems with shops and it has nothing to do with money.
Holy crap... you're alive!!
I have been waiting to hear any progress on this monster you are building.
BTW, a friend of mine from back home owns
Turbo Lexus .net and used to have one of the (if not the) highest stock block HP lexus's. He now owns a twin turbo supra (same thing right?
) that is pushing some serious power.
i am keeping everything under wraps for now. I am selling 3.0 custom pistons in the classifieds if anyone interested. I have two more sets. i have had no time to come on here cause i have been working so much and my labtop crashed. getting a new onw soon
Don't get a Dell!
Their support is horrible!
Over an hour on the phone BEFORE you can even talk to a tech.
Originally posted by Big Jim:
Don't get a Dell!
Their support is horrible!
Over an hour on the phone BEFORE you can even talk to a tech.
and then good luck getting one that speaks good enough english to understand 
anyway:
Good luck Brian can't waite to see what you've got going.
Case in point:
Mujibar was trying to get into the USA legally through Immigration.
The Officer said, "Mujibar, you have passed all the tests, except there is
one more test. Unless you pass it, you cannot enter the United States of
America."
Mujibar said, "I am ready."
The officer said, "Make a sentence using the words Yellow, Pink and Green."
Mujibar thought for a few minutes and said, "Mister Officer, I am ready."
The Officer said, "Go ahead."
Mujibar said, "The telephone goes green, green, green, and I pink it up,
and say, 'Yellow, this is Mujibar.'"
Mujibar now lives in a neighborhood near you and works at a Dell Computers help
desk. I talked to him yesterday.
Originally posted by svtProdigy:
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Originally posted by Stazi:
The owner disappeared into thin air due to his eyes being bigger than his pockets.
Hehe, too funny!
No i just bought a sc300 in the mean time to mess with. I have deeper pockets than you may think. I have had problems with shops and it has nothing to do with money.
That's all fine and dandy. It would seem there must be several shops ganging up to discredit you with rumors of slow/no pay then.
Congrats on having deep pockets and when your car is done I'm sure it will be nice. However, until you really show us something (beyond a trunk full of parts) there's plenty of room in my book for a healthy dose of skepticism.
Thanks,
Rick
Too funny you guys bring up Dell. I actually had to call them Saturday with a tech request. I'm pretty sure my power supply died on me so I called since I have on site tech support through the end of next year.
I got a guy that I could barely understand, but at the same point, he was able to speak well enough to help me run through a few basic things to hopefully narrow it down to the power supply being bad and I only had to wait about 3 minutes on hold before getting put through to him.
Rick
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Too funny you guys bring up Dell. I actually had to call them Saturday with a tech request. I'm pretty sure my power supply died on me so I called since I have on site tech support through the end of next year.
I got a guy that I could barely understand, but at the same point, he was able to speak well enough to help me run through a few basic things to hopefully narrow it down to the power supply being bad and I only had to wait about 3 minutes on hold before getting put through to him.
Rick
And his name was probably "Chad" or "Stan" or some other name. I [censored] hate Dell. I went through well with them trying to get a refund. Foamy's rant on them is the best!
Originally posted by Viva El Todras!:
Foamy's rant on them is the best!
+1
Dell Enterprise support also sucks. Anyone who works with computers knows Dell sucks, and has sucked for a very long time. Being that this is OT, I'll just stop my rant addition here.
Back on topic... Who's going to shell out the money for one of those intakes?
Mark
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Back on topic... Who's going to shell out the money for one of those intakes?
Mark
why bother.....if i get mine done in time for SZ, we'll strap it on at da dyno, it'll be split port, but could be modified for oval port.
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Back on topic... Who's going to shell out the money for one of those intakes?
Mark
Wagner has kinda gone the way of the Yeti in regards to Mazda6 community support. They kinda dropped off the face of the Earth and stopped returning phone calls. Mazda6tech.com tried numerious times over the course of many weeks to get in contact with them. There is more to the story I'm sure, nevertheless, their sponsership has been dropped from the site. Its a shame as they were the only ones doing a turbo kit for the V6.
Originally posted by GreenNuggs:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Back on topic... Who's going to shell out the money for one of those intakes?
Mark
Wagner has kinda gone the way of the Yeti in regards to Mazda6 community support. They kinda dropped off the face of the Earth and stopped returning phone calls. Mazda6tech.com tried numerious times over the course of many weeks to get in contact with them. There is more to the story I'm sure, nevertheless, their sponsership has been dropped from the site. Its a shame as they were the only ones doing a turbo kit for the V6.
I think ADC should jump into that arena!
sounds like this things happens a lot in the aftermarket world.
