Hey all

Just wanted to ask some questions. We are going to be helping a local Contour race car owner build up a 2.5l motor. This is for the regional touring car series, very similar to World Challenge car specs. BTW, this is Albert Mirko's old race Contour. The current owner was running a basically stock SVT motor and was only a couple of seconds off the World Challenge cars' times at Mosport. Car is an excellent handler, just needs more power.

1. Do you know where we could get higher compression pistons?

2. The engine would need to rev to 8000rpm, maybe 8500rpm. Where could we find better rods and camshafts?

3. I can't remember whom, but we would be sending out the heads to be ported and polished, angle cut valves, etc. Does anyone remember who does this. I understand bnoon has closed shop and is no longer doing this.

Any recommendations and comments are more than welcome. This would be a complete engine rebuild.

TIA.

Pistons and rods = JE custom made

Cams - leave them in they are breathing well at the top of 10psi.

Heads - Buckshot77

Bearings - trimetal clevite

When you guys talk about bearings, which ones are you talking about?

Originally posted by Keyser:

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Pistons and rods = JE custom made

Cams - leave them in they are breathing well at the top of 10psi.

Heads - Buckshot77

Bearings - trimetal clevite

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Excellent.

About the cams, the engine has to remain naturally aspirated for the Touring Class, and that's why I was asking about higher rev cams.

Originally posted by AirKnight:

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When you guys talk about bearings, which ones are you talking about?

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I think the reference made was the crank and rod bearings.

Hmmm...I wonder who this is for?

I'll never tell!

Last time I saw them they had broken a sway bar and the car was handling all hairy. Had to cut my vist short though as my brother wrecked in his F1200 race. Car looks great though!

Chris,

Kinger is the contact on the heads. I can hook you up with some rod bearings, but the mains aren't released yet. For rods go to Cunningham as that is where I had mine built. Other than that go with a lightened flywheel, DMD, and full balancing and knife edge the crank. Oops, you can try nikolas at duratecperformance.com on the pistons and also on the bearings too.

Rick

I haven't seen any fall off when I was N/A or turbo. I can make it all the way to 7500. They appear to be approaching the plateau but I think 8k is realistic.

Chris contact me for head info. Thanks!

I contacted Crower once a/b cam info. They can do regrinds for you if you supply the core cams. Don't know how good these will be, but if it's for a race car, then you'll probably be opening the engine up often and maintaining them well.

Come to think of it... you could always contact Leo Capaldi, he's racing a Cougar in SWC. He posts alot on the NECO forums and seems to be a decent guy for info. There was another guy last year who was running an CSVT, his name is Bob Miller. Maybe he could give you good info.

That is cool news Chris..we all hope to "follow your progress".

I am wondering..since you are building a true race car, perhaps Ford Racing or SVE can sell either cam blanks or touring car grinds that Chris Reinke & others have used. Or at least give spesc?? I would certainly talk with L. Capaldi, Mirko, or other racers & see if they have a Ford contact for the parts..IIRC Kinetics Racing builds Capaldis engines..wonder if they would help a little (maybe not as you could be considered a competitor).

What about the UIM?? I heard some have cut them open ported & welded them closed..not sure if true? At least 3-4 passes through Extrude Hone...SPONSER?!

Wonder if DAB valvetrain can be adapted from LS 3.0L to the 2.5??? Just thinking out loud..

Good luck & keep us posted!

High rev limits almost always requires upgraded valve springs and retainers. Also too aggressive of a cam profile and the duratec's wide useable powerband won't be so wide anymore, and you'll feel like your driving a duratec with VTEC as your power won't come until high in the revs.

Wow, this is overwhelming. I'm going to have to take it in one step at a time. As far as contacting the other Ford Racers, and some ex racers, it has been a little difficult as it is a conflict of interest for current runners. I fully understand that they have done their research and it is only fair that we do our own. As far as past Ford racers, they aren't as helpful any longer as many have moved on to other vehicles.

Thanks for all of your help. Kinger, I'll be in touch aout the head work.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

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Chris,

Kinger is the contact on the heads. I can hook you up with some rod bearings, but the mains aren't released yet. For rods go to Cunningham as that is where I had mine built. Other than that go with a lightened flywheel, DMD, and full balancing and knife edge the crank. Oops, you can try nikolas at duratecperformance.com on the pistons and also on the bearings too.

Rick

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Rick

Cunningham? Do you have any contact info for them? As far as the other recommendations, there is already a Fidanza installed, along with a UR stage 1+ clutch kit. A DMD would definitely be a plus, when we get a hold on stock again.

Originally posted by Dan Nixon:

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That is cool news Chris..we all hope to "follow your progress".

I am wondering..since you are building a true race car, perhaps Ford Racing or SVE can sell either cam blanks or touring car grinds that Chris Reinke & others have used. Or at least give spesc?? I would certainly talk with L. Capaldi, Mirko, or other racers & see if they have a Ford contact for the parts..IIRC Kinetics Racing builds Capaldis engines..wonder if they would help a little (maybe not as you could be considered a competitor).

What about the UIM?? I heard some have cut them open ported & welded them closed..not sure if true? At least 3-4 passes through Extrude Hone...SPONSER?!

Wonder if DAB valvetrain can be adapted from LS 3.0L to the 2.5??? Just thinking out loud..

Good luck & keep us posted!

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Dan

We have about 3 months to get this done, as the practice starts in March or so next year. I was thinking of Chris Reinke. Wonder where he is now a days? I spoke to Kinetic, earlier this year, when I wanted to do a N/A 3.0l. Granted they build great engines, but the owner of the Contour race car is on a limited budget and we can only help him so much financially. Basically, a "Kinetic" built engine would cost more than the amount the race car was purchased for. I foresee more $$$$ needed to get the job done right the first time.

In reply to:

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Also too aggressive of a cam profile and the duratec's wide useable powerband won't be so wide anymore, and you'll feel like your driving a duratec with VTEC as your power won't come until high in the revs.

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As far as a road racing application goes, a wide powerband is not as much of a priority as it is in drag racing and street use. Thats how lemans cars can get away with huge turbos that only spool in the upper rev range. My car has a terrible power band, but i never leave the 6,000 to 8,500 rpm range, so any low end torque would be wasted.

http://www.cunninghamrods.com/

Chris, they built the rods for my 3L last year. Basically you tell them the specs of the rods and they build them to your spec. Also, something to consider might be cryo treating at www.300below.com

Rick

how about the 4.5 final drive ring and pinion that leo capaldi sells?

Originally posted by cawong11:

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Thanks for all of your help. Kinger, I'll be in touch aout the head work.

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No prob chief! I have over 4 sets either going under the knife or being operated on right now. Turnaround time is about 3 weeks give or take. Thanks!

Originally posted by kinger:

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Originally posted by cawong11:

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Thanks for all of your help. Kinger, I'll be in touch aout the head work.

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No prob chief! I have over 4 sets either going under the knife or being operated on right now. Turnaround time is about 3 weeks give or take. Thanks!

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Email has been sent.

So far, this is what has been mentioned.
Pistons: J.E.
Rods: Cunningham
Bearings: Trimetal Clevite
Cylinder head work: Kinger
Cams: custom grinds, we are contacting CAT CAMS (Canadian company)
Possible cryogenic treatment of various engine parts.

This is an excellent start. I can't thank you guys enough.

Chris, you might have kinger's guy deck the heads a little more than usual to bump your compression too since this will be an N/A car.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

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Chris, you might have kinger's guy deck the heads a little more than usual to bump your compression too since this will be an N/A car.

Rick

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Custom pistons are a better way of doing it though as valve to piston clearance is already a bit tight on our engines. You can always fly cut the stock pistons, but then you're getting into more custom machine work and weakening the stock pistons further by cutting them. Chris, at least finish any cam specs before building or modifying pistons as you may have to have them fly cut anyway to clear any higher lift cams or increase in duration.

My vote = open up the chambers to lower compression and unshroud the larger valves, then get larger domed custom pistons to raise the cr back up to 13 or 14:1. Siamese the intake runners, from the last curve of the UIM, through the LIM, to about 50mm or so into the head ports. Ditch the secondaries and guide bars. Long tube, tuned length headers are a must. If he doesn't have any, try http://www.burnsstainless.com for help designing and building some. There's a lot more you can do, if funds allow...

Brad, just a note on the compression, the World Challenge rules for touring cars state no higher than 12.5:1 (IIRC) or is it 12:1 compression ratio (??), stock bore and stroke. I still have to find out about the valve sizes, hopefully the sky's the limit.

Leo runs 12.5 Wiseco pistons...

Originally posted by cawong11:

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Brad, just a note on the compression, the World Challenge rules for touring cars state no higher than 12.5:1 (IIRC) or is it 12:1 compression ratio (??), stock bore and stroke. I still have to find out about the valve sizes, hopefully the sky's the limit.

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Chris,

Sorry about delay ihn posting -- been away. You might want to get in touch with the Mumm brothers who are also running a 2.5l Cougar, but in GrandAm Cup -- last I heard, they had one of Chris Reinke's enginetics-built engines potentially for sale. I believe their website is www.mummbrothers.com. Good guys & always been very helpful to me with advice (they did a lot of the original development work with Leo C.)

Mike

Originally posted by SeiCoRacing:

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Chris,

Sorry about delay ihn posting -- been away. You might want to get in touch with the Mumm brothers who are also running a 2.5l Cougar, but in GrandAm Cup -- last I heard, they had one of Chris Reinke's enginetics-built engines potentially for sale. I believe their website is www.mummbrothers.com. Good guys & always been very helpful to me with advice (they did a lot of the original development work with Leo C.)

Mike

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Thanks Mike. Seems that one common factor here, Kinetic engines. Now if the budget had an open limit, we would contract them to build the engine. However, there is a limited budget for this project.

I'll contact the Mumm brothers. THX.

Can anyone recommend a brand for a stand alone engine management system? Looks like the owner of the race Contour would like to go this route too.

Originally posted by cawong11:

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Can anyone recommend a brand for a stand alone engine management system? Looks like the owner of the race Contour would like to go this route too.

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How about an Electromotive Tech III?http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

there, that works a little better

Originally posted by Y2KBlack&BlueSVT:

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http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

there, that works a little better

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THX, a name was mentioned today during a conversation, electro......, and looks like the winner is electromotive.

Found this post while doing a search, just wondering if the engine was ever built and how it went?

didn't Chris just buy Mirko's old racing contour??

Race car

This the one?

Originally posted by ssmumich00:

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didn't Chris just buy Mirko's old racing contour??

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I didn't actually buy the car, but assisted in getting the 2 parties together. CTA is also assisting the race team, and I have the task of programming the engine computer. The finances aren't there yet to purchase or build a race motor, but on the same note, more power, means more weight per race. We just need about 20 to 30 more ponies to get the car balanced out. The handling is there, but the race car lacks just a little bit of power.