I have to say from talking with Keith at Street flight he said from his many years of experience and calculations, The turbo pushing 300 hp to wheels with it hooking up solid will definitely hit lows 12's with proper shifting.

He also said that Kaiser quarter mile run was useless to judge because his car is no way going to hook up without LSD, clutch, and drag tires.

He also said when he got to strip Kaiser had already put the ice in right after a 30 minute drive in high 90's
This kept him from reaching the hp above 270 alone this was his first time to the track.

Basically I think ya'll are forgetting that these numbers will not at all represent the true potential of this car.

My friend has a Mr2 and is pushing the same numbers to the ground and is running 11's and weight is just shy of us. When I told him the numbers and the tourque curve he said there should be no reason in hell we shouldn't hit 12's with grip. And he has less torque (cobra vs SVT)

Everybodies ragging the turbo but into you ride in the car when the car hit 10psi you have to hold on to wheel and watch the tach shoot up and tell me it not worth it.

How do ya'll sit there and say this it not worth it? It will be the biggest sleeper there is and will out handle a cobra all day and carry four people comfortable.

If everyone added up the money you spend in trading in vehicles and buying new along with interest this car would still be a cheaper car with all the mods and da*n fast one at that.

Ya'll just wait till the 99 svt get out his shop with more hp than 2000 and with the proper setup everybody will want to get on the train.

I am all for the contour busting out some good numbers at the track but until the internal gears within the tranny and the motor mount issues are addressed I think that it may have problems. Whatever happen to david Z's setup?

Yeah I know I'm a super jackass for getting excited and dumping the ice in early. What can I say.
It has a lot of potential. I know I've wasted more than 5k trading up to a different cars so I'm sticking with this one. Give me another chance on the track guys after I put it back together again.

Yeah well...what else is new? :p

You was good until you said that. Question.. how reliable is the contour going to be?? I bet you this. There will be blown tranmissions, and blown engine left and right. You say if you factor in all the trade in costs etc,etc it will still be cheaper to keep the tour. I beg to differ. If you
add the cost of the turbo and all the other mods. You will be reaching the price of an nice low milage used S4 with 250 HP stock and a full warrenty to boot. So no matter what you say it will not be worth it. Hell I would love to see a contour break 13's or even 12's, but IMHO it is just not cost effective. Good luck, and give me a holla I will give any turbo tour a run.

-Antonio

You was good until you said that. Question.. how reliable is the contour going to be?? I bet you this. There will be blown tranmissions, and blown engine left and right. You say if you factor in all the trade in costs etc,etc it will still be cheaper to keep the tour. I beg to differ. If you
add the cost of the turbo and all the other mods. You will be reaching the price of an nice low milage used S4 with 250 HP stock and a full warrenty to boot. So no matter what you say it will not be worth it. Hell I would love to see a contour break 13's or even 12's, but IMHO it is just not cost effective. Good luck, and give me a holla I will give any turbo tour a run.

-Antonio[/QB][/QUOTE]

well you might want ot take into consideration that a lot of the people on this site have a tour because they like the car and it's not a reliability issue.I'm sure that if you get up everyday and enjoy every drive you have because you like your car you would probably wouldn't have posted

well you might want ot take into consideration that a lot of the people on this site have a tour because they like the car and it's not a reliability issue.I'm sure that if you get up everyday and enjoy every drive you have because you like your car you would probably wouldn't have posted[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well whatever.. This topic has strayed far enough. If you had two SVT's that turned out to be nothing but trouble you would understand where I am coming from. Oh, and one more thing. I only put mods on that made the car look good, and I had problems. You guys are talking internals, harded gears and such. When will you wake up?? When you spent 30,000 into a car you can't take down the street or the track? Or now. I have seen the light and I hope you will to. Again just my 1.00.

P.S I love the contour, I love my car, but the damn thing is way to fragile.

-Antonio

"Mr.Sulu....this topic has gone way off course."

It is unfortunate that you have had bad experiences with your cars Antonio. There is a bit of luck of the draw when it comes to cars. You have to pray that your car wasn't built at the end of a shift on a Friday sometimes. I don't think that you can catagorize all Contours into the realm of which you speak..i.e. "see the light". I know parts will break eventually but I plan on fixing them.

But anyway Antonio.....if I get someone who knows what they are doing to drive the strip, or I learn how to race, what do you think the capabilities are if she holds together?

kaiser, I have no clue. With the HP being claimed you should run 9's all day. Okay I am j/k. I would be happy if you break high 13's. I would love to see that in person.

-Antonio

I'd hope for more than high 13s for over $5K! You can spray with a Quaife and dip into the 13s.

Boy you have a bug up your butt don't you.

This car will never be a DRAG car. Why compare it on such basic, rudimentary skills.

Without a lot of chassis work I don't see this car going very quick in the quarter mile ever. Plus most folks set it up for corner carving & handling (big surprise) & that makes getting traction even harder.

Fair guess - (low to mid 13's @108+)
Yes with that amount of power 12's should be had, but the chassis is not willing without sacrificing a lot in other areas...

Also you have to look at; once moving a S/C or T/C car is a monster. I've seen PhatSVT's car eat a C5, a WS6, & numerous Cobra's on the highway.

Throw in some corners and the LSD and you have one very mean package.

Think outside the 1/4 mile box for just once...

I've smoked more than my share of "much more powerful" cars at the local autocrosses.

It is all about one thing: Love for you car. You love the car you're driving, it doesn't matter how much money or time you put into it.

Contours are hit or miss, I have 28k on one with zero problems (other than dash board warp) and 89k on another. I am the third owner (I think) of the 95SE and the only major problem is a water leak in the trunk and my waterpump died (might be original for all I know)

I see nothing wrong with boosting the car. Like Buckshot, if this puppy blows, I'll just have to pick up the peices (literally ) and start again. All cars are prone to failure and even more so once you start tinkering with them.

Well, you guys keep talking about the amazing handling of the SVT, but a Vette will out-handle and out-accelerate the turbo SVT. And if we're going to go back to the cost discussion, you can get a Z28, spend a good $5K on suspension upgrades, and have one hell of a corner carver that still hauls ass in a straight line. And if you decide that low 13s isn't good enough, there's a ridiculous aftermarket to make it faster.

No bug up my butt, I'm just waiting for someone to make a valid arguement to justify the costs..

But that is not the point. The point is it has been done before. I've seen too many Z28s, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc hooked up. It is about doing something different. It is about giving more options for the Contour. Who really cares how it compares to another true sports car? Comparing a turbo SVT Contour to a Corvette, Z28, or Mustang is ubsurd. They aren't even in the same class.

Like I said before it comes down to love for your car. Just my .02

:rolleyes:

Officer about that comment on suspenison mods on vette or z28 there is no way in hell you can tell me that dollar for dollar they win in both catagories our car stock beats them just as bad as they get us in the quarter. It hard to get a heavy car to take turn against our cars even with suspesion I hand them the butt at the autocross stock and even the ones with race slicks

Waht really gets me at first people complain about the reason we can't compete is torque.

And now we have buttloads of it and now it transmission work. Duh more power more parts are needed to handle it .

great example go put nitrous or induction or even some bolt ons on a camaro and watch there clutch slip and also watch there rearend fall outfrom underneath which happens regularly . Oh but that okay that they have to get the rearend with eight bolts instead of one and a beefer clutch and add lsd to handle there 12 sec runs.

Face it guys there not many cars that run 12's besides 35k + cars without spending money to achieve it. Hell look at regular atx vettes running mid 13's with all the goodies.

Speed cost money and there no exception.

I think you will have a rather hard time hanging with 03 Cobras in the handling department. Remember, they are 4 wheel independant suspension also, and Ford seems to have worked the bugs out of the IRS this year. Too bad they haven't fixed the traction lok with something better. :rolleyes:

I think turboing the 'Tour is entirely worth it. It makes one hell of a sleeper. Just don't inflate your ego to the point where you think you can take on anything on the road.

If you figure this out We got Phatsvt's tour Vs. a Cobra.

Theres Plenty of room for 4 in Phats and pretty much room for only 2 in a Cobra.

Phats can out corner a Cobra
Phats Cost about the same over all say 23k plus well say about 5k for the SC and its just as fast there are less of them and it can out handle and carry more people. Now we all know the problems with the SC and hopefully the TC won't have the same. Hell you gotta figure LSD for a Tour is 600 buck uninstalled its 300 more than the stock ford one i know i just had a stock differential put in.

ANyone can go out and Buy a cobra pretty much and anyone can Buy a SVT contour. But a Contour is alot more rare than a Cobra and A Forced induction SVT is even more rare. I love my SVT to death. and i want to supercharge it. Do i care if it breaks? ya but its the price you pay. Any car that is not N/A is gonna have problems sooner or later and if you make a N/A car Forced induction its gonna have problems alot sooner. But its the price you pay if you wanna go faster.

I just think to each his own. Everytime i down the road i see cars that can smoke me but i know theres a million of them. ex. Mustang Gt's Z28's

But i know that if where on a auto X corse or a really windy road then there not gonna be able to touch me.

You want a Drag car for cheap Buy a Foxbody Stang.

I wanted a rare fast car
and i know So did Phatsvt and he accomplished that. Imagine the look on a Cobra drivers face when he is barely keeping up with a Svt contour

thats all i got to say

03 Cobra is a different story that thing is just insane

Plus the Cobra's interior is still not as good as an SVT interior in my opinion.

Also its NOT about cost. Its about love of the car. Why not get a 4 cylinder 4banger 1982 mustang and rip the engine and put a carb 351W and strip it. Heck it will probably run 10's all day on slicks. It will be much cheaper than a Contour SVT with a turbo but SO WHAT! If someone wants to put a turbo on a Contour and have a strong running car for the highway and street then so be it.

Also, I will say that I'm sure that a ContourSVT putting 300HP to the wheels will give a NON Z06 vette a run on the highway until it hits rev limiter. I used to have a 330HP (on the motor) Mercury Capri RS until recently. I also own an SVT with mild mods and can tell you that IF my svt had 330HP on the motor, it would outdo my Capri RS. You may say so what but I've raced plenty of 93+ LT1 vettes on the highway and once C5 from 130KM/hr to 245km/hr and he was behind 1.5 cars. We started out side by side.

The contour is NOT a drag car and nobody is building it as a drag car. The contour is a highway car.

"the SVT is prettier"

Plus the nice thing about the Contour SVT is that its a more attractive car and more practical. Yes its not a real performance car but if I could only own one car and it was either a mustang cobra or a contour svt. I'd chose the contour svt because its more comfortable and practical. With some mods it could get fast enough as well.

Heck gimme a LSD and a good 3L conversion and I'll stay happy

Being prettier or more attractive is simply your opinion. IMO, the Cobra is one of the best looking cars on the road. I love the interior, even if it is a bit smaller than the 'Tour. You guys need to stop spouting your opinions as if they were facts. Not everyone feels as you do.

Now you really have to look at reliability. Spraying your 'tour is gonna leave you stuck on the side of the road, eventually. That is a sure thing. Nitrous is Very damaging to the motor, especially with the high C/R. Plus, can you afford to juice it all the time? I would spend all day going back and forth to get my bottle filled. Spray as you see fit, I am going for the Turbo kit! Just my 0.02. Full of respect for all 'tours, N/A and Un-Naturally Induced ...

*Edit* Page 2

Perfectly stated.

Now please practice what you preach for a change! :rolleyes:

Do it right, and it is not. Probably safer than most other big HP upgrades.

haha exactly

Sorry, but you can bite me.

LOL!!! this is some funny stuff!! A few of you seem to have a good grip on reality. However alot of you should move to fantasy Island so that your dreams can come true. Out handle a Cobra or Vette! HaHaHa!!!!! Outrun either of those cars! HaHaHa!!! LOL!!!! :rolleyes:

heheh... Truth hurts doesn't it.

...but why don't we go back to comparing apples to oranges like you like so much... :rolleyes:

I dunno about you, but I take great joy in running down significantly "faster" cars at open track events . . .

and back on topic, both nitrous and turbochrging an originally N/A engine will decrease engine life, BUT proper tuning of the system (either type) can significantly minimize the accelerated wear effects.

I don't hear anything resembling truth coming from you. What crawled up your butt, anyway?

Everyone is talking about comparing a turbo or s/c 'tour to a vette, or a z28 or a stang or whatever. For some of us, car insurance is an issue, a cobra will have SIGNIFICANTLY higher premiums than a Contour, SVT or otherwise, same with the z28 etc.

I give people willing to build a 1/4 tour a lot of credit, they are helping create an aftermarket we all (well not the trolls) can use. And as stated it's not something you see every day.

Plus, if you were zipping down the highway with a bright red vette in your sleeper tour who do you think is going to get stopped... 'nuff said for me. I'd love a vette or a 2003 cobra but I'm trying to be practical.

-Pete

1) I would not buy a Mustang, Transmaro, or a Vette. Don't like them and find them boring and common.

2) I love the way my Cougar looks, handles, and that it is not a car that has been built by someone in every small town across the country

3) I wanted to be different and not build the same cars the rest of the sport compact guys are building

4) Turbocharging my car was worth the money spent and the 5,000 miles I drove there and back to have it done.

Summary:

No matter how well the kit performs there will always naysayers saying it is not worth it. Take any automotive enthusiast no matter what they drive and look at the money invested into the car. No modified car is a good "investment" if you are looking for a return when you get rid of the car. Enthusiasts modify cars because they enjoy building their cars and making their car different than the guys across the street. After having my car turbocharged I am damn near addicted to driving the thing and it makes more power than it did on nitrous and it makes that power all the time. If you are a cdw27 owner and love your car and plan on keeping it for awhile this kit is worth it. It takes an average car and makes it something special. Blowing the doors off the Mustang down the street is a great feeleing when they have no idea what was coming and all of a sudden they are looking at your tail lights. Anyone can go to a dealer and write a check for a fast car but it's the enthusiast that takes a car he/she loves and takes it to the next level.

So the guy who spent $130K on a 911 Twin Turbo isn't an enthusiast, but if he opts for the Gemballa tweaks for another $20K, then he's an enthusiast?

Sorry, but this arguement's about as valid as those idiots who turbo a GSR engine in a 91 Civic and then try to justify the costs. To each his own I guess. I like the security of a warranty.

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

Well the big question is. How far are you willing to take it to the next lesson and is it WORTH it.

Warrenty is nice but for the guys that like to work on cars and modify them they assume the risks that come along with it.

Also about the Porsche comment.

No doubt there are enthusiasts in that market and if I made their kind of money I'd be modding out a much more expensive car. It's all about living within your means and working with what you have. Not everyone can afford to drop big dollars on a $50k + car so they build what they can afford.

Arguing the point with you is worthless. If you were an enthusiast that worked on your own car and went to the shows or track week in and week out you'd have a different viewpoint. You are looking at car enthusiasts from a Charles Schwabb viewpoint. You ALWAYS loose out when you put money into a car but you can definately have fun along the way. When you get into the scene like I have it becomes more than a hobby and more like a lifestyle. I have formed business releationships and personal relationships with people all over the country as well as ceo's of aftermarket companies. If I never built my cougar I would have not gotten to see what I have going to shows all over the country.

It's never "worth" it to put money into a car, no matter what make or model it may be. It's not an investment in any way, shape, or form. Mind you, your car could potentially win some money and the like doing the show circuit, but it's not exactly a profitable business scheme considering the amount of competition and the unlikelhood of being a consistent winner.

The only qualifying factor that makes a car "worth" it is if it makes you happy to spend the time and money on your hobby. Because really, that is all modding a car is, a hobby...one that a few of us may take a little too seriously

Personally, I've spent a decent amount of money on this car and am in the process of spending more. I know for a fact it is not a smart financial move from the objective viewpoint, but my view isn't objective. I love modding cars, and right now, especially my SVT. It is a ***** of a car that has more problems than you can shake a stick at, but I love it for that very reason. You have to work hard to make this car work and progress, but when it's working there isn't a car in it's relative price range that I would exchange it for.

When it all comes down to it, I wouldn't care if this care blue-booked for one penny...I'd still put money into it because I like this car and I like modding it. Stupid and irrational in a sense, but I only spend what I can afford...so it's a controlled irrationality :p

I realized there are people who want to have nice cars and will spend the money to make it one by modifying a CHEAPER car and making it behave like a very expensive one. and the other person who just goes out there and buys a vette because he first off has the money up front to buy one and rather not spend the time nor effort to build one similar.

See I can't complain I pay a measly 250.00 a month for my SVT and 75.00 dollars insurance with speeding tickets.

I save monthly with lower notes and insurance and have a huge variety off used parts for my car since we share parts from three different cars.

A cobra or vette is very expensive to mantain once warranty goes. I can get engines for less than 1000.00 bucks not them.

I also do all my work on my car not worrying if I will mess up a 50,000 dollar car.

I will agree there are some people who go beyond there budget and get frustrated but if you keep the car for a while and pay it off you will have alot more money to buy aftermarket parts.

I enjoy mostly having a car looks good all the time and will be fast as hell while paying insurance on a family car and should be paying the same amount as a sports car.

I think there will be people who think of dollars before enjoyment.

I think it's entirely up to the individual to decide if it's worth it to turbo the 'Tour or not. I love high technology engines, and I see turbocharging as being far ahead of supercharging.

If I had the money, I'd probably trade my 'Tour in for a 03 Cobra, but that's just me. If I had enough $$ to get a 03 Cobra, fix the paint on my 'Tour and turbo it, I'd keep it just for laughs. Like I said before, it would make a hell of a sleeper (at the track), and besides, I wouldn't mind getting into autocrossing at all. As it stands, I have neither the time nor the $$ for any of the above, so this is all just a pipe dream for me...

First, a Cobra or Vette is not going to be any more expensive to maintain that your turbo'd Tour/Cougar. Quite the opposite, as you now have to watch the go pedal in order to avoid grenading your entire driveline. The aftermarket for the Mustang (read: Cobra) is likely the largest in existance, which means parts are plentiful and cheap compared to the sometimes custom parts that have to be made for our cars so that they can handle the elevated power levels. Likely same for the Corvette.

I'll also wager that the majority of Mustang/Cobra owners work on their own cars, can't say the same for the Vette boys.

Last, a Mustang or Vette is much easier to work on, especially if you have big hands. There just isn't as much room under the hood of a 'Tour/Cougar, which makes everything that much more of a PITA.

AMEN!!
Thanks loco for pointing that out.

Craig. You nailed it on the head.

This topic is NON-enthusiasts arguing with true Enthusiasts saying that modifications are not worth it because you never get back what you put in the cars. (Well duh! That's not why we do it! Driving it is the payback!)

To put it bluntly and honestly. THEY JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND. It's been my signature quote forever. Some people just do not understand the enthusiast's mind and NEVER will. It is their loss, not ours... No use arguing with a brick wall... They'll never get it...

...and you are the know it all authority on who is or is not an enthusiast? Please... :rolleyes:

apperently more than you are, i dont always agree with demon.. but if anyone on this site could be called an enthusiast its demon

Never said he wasn't, but who died and appointed him God?

What proof of this do you have? Please share!

And I aint?? Just becuase I don't have "go" mods that does not make him more or less an enthusiast. We just choose to mod our car diffrently. To be perfectly honest I believe putting a turbo on a tour/cougar whatever is a waste of money IMHO. People would say the same thing about 19's and HID's. See what I mean?? We are all enthusiast's we just do things differently.

-Antonio

Finally somebody that gets it!!!! Now the trick is to have that knowledge and not feel superior to everyone around you. I think you have it. Sure would be nice if more people felt like you do!

Some cars are easier to mod or take mods better than others. If you are wanting cheap, reliable, easy to mod in terms of raw horsepower and handling, there is a massive aftermarket for a number of other platforms than the Contour/Cougar one. ANY FWD platform (especially one that has its roots in being built for fleet duty) is going to have a higher obstacle barrier to overcome in certain areas (handling, traction/weight transfer limitations at takeoff, HP limits).

Regardless, there are people out there (I'm one of them to an extent, though compared to some here I should run off and hide) that enjoy the challenge of squeezing every ounce of available, useable power and handling out of a platform, damn the possible consequences. I don't think anyone will argue the potential "gotchas" on a TC'd/SC'd Contour, because they exist and if you plan to thrash/abuse the car given these weak spots (diff., stock crank damper, weak motor mounts, sinter forged con rods, etc.), don't b(tch and moan when you blow something up, because if you've spent any time at all on these boards, you've got to be MINIMALLY aware of the issues of putting 50% and up power on this platform.

To me, the risks are justified, especially when I plan to have a tranny built to handle the abuse and if money holds up, have my engine internals upgraded for the turbo that I hope to purchase in the next 6 months. Crazy? Maybe, but it's my money. Would it be better spent on a SC for the C5? Probably. In terms of the C5 platform being able to handle the abuse, ABSOLUELY. Than again, I'm running close to 400HP on her right now and it scares the hell out of me, especially when I go corner carving with the active handling off. Chalk that up to me not having NEAR enough driving experience/ability to approach the car's limits, which are formidable. With another 150-200HP on tap, I'm looking at something (for me personally) that's getting close to being unstreetable...

Then there's the sleeper factor to consider with the Contour, and the fact that some people just don't want to follow the crowd on things (you WON'T be seeing a TC'd Contour at every street corner).

In short, to each his own. One man's folly is another man's wisdom. Sure, there are guys that have got $100K sunk in to 9 sec. Honda Civics to where a quarter of that could get you a Mustang that could do that and better. Apparently they see something in it. I don't, because my "enthusiasm" and financial limits (I DO want to retire someday, so I'm not going to raid my savings and the like on a automobile) won't let me sink that into a car. $10K, maybe.

If you're into modding a car for financial gain, I suggest you take a closer look at the financials. I personally don't sink any $$$ into ANY hobby that I can't stuff in a fireplace and burn. I do it for ENJOYMENT, as I think a great many of us here do. However, not all of us have the money/enthusiasm to live with the potential risks that a TC'd/SC'd Duratec brings into the equation.

Let your conscience be your guide.

I agree with you 100% Antonio.

However it's when people just start bad mouthing things repetively for no apparent reason & with no basis that doesn't make sense.

So Sandman doesn't think the turbo is worth the money. I can live with that.
However any time the subject comes up he (and others) jump in and belittle and bad mouth anything & everyone related or supportive of "other enthusiast's ideas".

I can understand telling people your feelings once or twice on the subject. Heck if I couldn't I'd be one hell of a hypocrit. However 10+ times in the same post and every time even the hint of a certain type of topic comes up folks go off like a broken record. Get freakin' real people! It's not like this is a lone or even rare occurance...

Fine; you don't want one and think it costs far too much. I get it. I've heard your "opinion". Now let we "other enthusiasts" talk about the ideas "we" think do count for something.
I don't go to the Aesthetics forum and tear into anyone doing mods I think are pointless, ricey, degrading performance, and a complete waste of time.
Some common courtesy would be nice for a change.

BTW - I've always been god. Where have you been??? Sheesh... :rolleyes: :p

Didn't you get the memo? If you don't agree with him, you're not an enthusiast. Hmm, I track my car more than probably anyone on here, but since I prefer to leave well enough alone, I'm not an enthusiast. People need to invest more in driver training. I regularly take out cars with 100hp advantage over me (on the track).

But you know what? I did an SVT On-Track event a few years back, and I was one of 2 SVT Contours there. There were a slew of Cobras and Lightnings. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep up with a 99 Cobra. (Both of our cars were stock) Whoever says the SVT Contour has this incredible handling advantage is crazy. Going into some hot corners, my back end started getting floaty around 90mph, while the Cobras was planted firmly at even greater speeds. The same story was told at the Auto-X later that day.

And this is a heavy 320hp Cobra. Have fun with your FWD frankenstein, but I saw the light, and won't own another one.

think you just hit the nail on the head there...

I agree 100%. You have my courtesy as well. Now lets all put this to the side this thread has gone way, way, way OT. I am partly to blame. Now that I understand all sides( Sujeet, you are great!) I will back out and watch, and show my... courtesy.

-Antonio

Thanks buddy, you're not so bad yourself.. :p

And therein lies your problem. You can self-worship all you want, just understand that no one else is looking up to you for it.

Demon-

It's put up or shut up time. You show me where in this thread I bashed anyone. You show me where in this thread I stated that I thought turboing the 'Tour was a bad idea.

You can't do either, which makes you a liar. Time to admit you lied, shut up, and save what little dignity you have left.

I never could stand a liar, it's the one thing that gets to me more than anything else.