for the past week when I've started up the car it will bog hardcore, like you can really step on it and it will hardly move, backfire a few times almost die and then slowly go then it will take off and then bog down and it will switch through taht a few times a second until you are at high RPM (4500+) once it gets warm, it is fine usually, but it will jerk when going under 60 down the highway, and then stop and then start jerking again(I don't know if that is realted to the bogging or not). It also has lost power too, all across the rev band. I came beck from college where I usually can get 30mpg if it feels like it and I got 21 or so. I searched and came up with new plugs or wires, but the plugs are less than a year old and would new wires cure the bogging and loss of power???? No codes, had it scanned today and the repair shop(who is very good) couldnt' find anything. I have a 1400 mile road trip starting this friday and want t0 get more than 20 mpg!!!! so any hlep would be great!!!
Fuel filter, fuel pump, moisture in gas tank?
Since it's a 95:
Go out and check the secondaries linkage. Make sure both sides are rotated ccw. Turn the key to run and they should turn cw.
Have the intake gaskets been replaced?
Check the PCV elbow (comes out of the bottom of the UIM) for leaks or collapsing.
Was the CAT recall done? Check for underhood sticker.
Ok, I forgot to add all taht we have done already. Checked out the vacuum lines, they are ok. the fuel filter is new as of 3000 miles ago, i treated the gas tank a couple tanks ago, spent all sunday working on the thing. Could it maybe be the ECV? thats the only thing we could come up with. Oh yea, it has 48,000 miles on it if that helps at all. I will look for the secondaries linkage and PCV elbow right now and see what I find.
Ok, I am somewhat a newb when it comes to the secondaries and all that so heres a stupid question- Where is the secondary linkage?? and which line is the PCV elbow? thanks. I have 2 days to fix this before I have to put up with 22mpg for a 1400 mile trip.
Originally posted by Teenage Contour:
... and which line is the PCV elbow? ...
PCV is the line (the lower 1/4 inch hose) going from the accordian tube (air inlet duct) towards the firewall. The other line (1/2 inch?) going in that direction is the tube which goes to the IAC valve area. If you have not done the moose TSB, the 1/2 inch line should have what looks like a S tube with a small plastic container.
PCV valve location.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1138559&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=2#Post1155130
When my IMRC was broken the engine never bogged or hesitated. It just lacked power over 3K rpms. My bogging was caused by small vacuum leaks and a bad TPS.
My car is at the shop again, but I do remember checking that out not knowing it was the PCV and I had replaced that rubber hose but not sure about the elbow. I beleive it was ok, but I will check when I get the car back. COuld thisbe the cats? If it helps, th exhaust pipes are really black, definitly more than normal. and the shuddering started and just got worse with time.
mine has done the same thing since I have owned. Just a minor annoyance when it is cold. The power on my car is fine though once it is warmed up and I get 24-28 mpg on the highway. Since you moved back from college did you have all your stuff in your car while hauling it back and that is why you got bad milage? I too have new wires, plugs, fuel filter, gaskets, cleaned UIM/LIM, new cat....but not PCV valve....couldn't find the stupid thing. I have a new one, but just haven'changed it. LOL. When I get home from work tonight maybe I will give changing that a whirl. I am also wondering if it is the precats for our cars that might be plugged or something.....or if the secondaries just don't close like they should when it is cold and then they free up after a little bit of driving. But when I did the UIM cleaning they were closed like they should be.
elradio-
I did ahve it quite loaded down, but maybe not a whole lot more than I did when I got 30 mpg, and would it really make 9 mpg difference? so I'm pretty sure thats not the problem. If it makes a difference, I have 225's on there, and they are Potenza G009's so they hurt it a little I think, cause the 30 mpg was on Comp T/A 215's. It never used to really lack power once it warmed up, just did it within the last few weeks. I'm praying the repair shop will find somehting. My best guess is pre-cat or some reandom sensor that the repair shop thouthg it could be. I should hear from them within the hour. Thanks for teh help so far, guys.
EDIT: Called the repair shop and they said that it could be the idle air sylinoid (sp). Does this make sense????? Need to know soon as I need call them back.
what the heck is a idle air selinoid?
Not quite sure, I know taht iit isn't cheap and the computer kept telling them taht they are wrong. THis shop wouldn't screw me over though, so it needs to be replaced. Oh, and a vacuum hose was replaced that was supposedly cracked pretty bad so we'll see if that helps.
Ok, now its really starting to bug me. the gas mileage went up but still not good. at 70 got about 23 then went up to 24 at 75 then stayed around taht and 25mpg until I got to Georiga where the hills, serious headwind and 80-85 mph dropped it down to 22mpg. Going through FL at 75 I got 27 with a decent tail wind, 26 without it and its back down to lower than that now with mostly 70-75 mph highway driving. It was hardly bogging when I started the trip, now its as strong as ever and has minimul power until I go about 5-10 miles AFTER the engine is at temp. Honestly, if it didn't look so good I would have rammed it into a tree by now. I'm sick of it bogging so much and basically dying, getting terrible gas milage (it hasn't been above mid twenties no matter what the speed until that trip, and its right back down again) and it has 50,400 miles on it!!!! What is wrong with this piece of junk?!?!?! I've tried to be patient with it for the past 7 months but now I'm jsut sick of it. anyway, rant over. It started bogging after I did a serious intake cleaning, right after i got it back from the body shop when my hood flew
off , so somehow are those related? I used 2 cans of this 3m stuff after I used some STP or equivilant a week before and I let it kill the engine and sit in there for a half hour or so thinking it would eat away at the gunk in there, then started it back up and went for a drive. Could that have done it??? If it matters there is alot of carbon on the SVT exhaust taht I have had since March, like waaay more then there should be. I will check the plugs soon here. Oh and btw, it will jerk below 2500 rpm once it gets going, usually rather consistently but will too die off once the engine is warm for a while most of the time, but comes and goes whenever it wants too. could the wires have somehting to do with this? I got new double plats last year, but the wires are original. Please, any help or ideas would be useful, don't matter how crazy it is. thanks.
Originally posted by Rogerm60:
...Was the CAT recall done? Check for underhood sticker.
Scan for CEL codes and post.
Did you check the precatalytic converters to see if it was plugged?
You might have to do the el cheapo plugged exhaust test for the OBDI 1995 Duratec.
Plugged exhaust test.
For the OBDI 1995 Duratec, a good cheap way is to remove the O2 sensors, in this order (and see if the performance improves). Uninstall Bank 2 (radiator side) to determine if Bank 2 precat is plugged, reinstall Bank 2 and then uninstall Bank 1 (hardest one, close to firewall) to determine if Bank 1 precat is plugged.
If this doesn't pan out, you may have a plugged . Battery needs to be disconnected before uninstalling and installing O2 sensors.
Missed this in the previous post.
Originally posted by Tony2005:
...
Plugged exhaust test.
For the OBDI 1995 Duratec, a good cheap way is to remove the O2 sensors, in this order (and see if the performance improves). Uninstall Bank 2 (radiator side) to determine if Bank 2 precat is plugged, reinstall Bank 2 and then uninstall Bank 1 (hardest one, close to firewall) to determine if Bank 1 precat is plugged.
If this doesn't pan out, you may have a plugged main catalytic converter. Battery needs to be disconnected before uninstalling and installing O2 sensors.
If your main cat is plugged, I guessed the only way to really tell is to have a shop do an exhaust pressure test.
Tony-
I will check that out tonight, as well as pull the plugs. Thanks for the help, and I'll let ya know what happens. Oh, could this be a computer problem? Ths mixture seems like its off, although it is a good chance it is more than that but if the computer was making it run rich then it would get bad milage and have all the junk in the exhaust.
Originally posted by Teenage Contour:
.... Oh, could this be a computer problem? ...
I hope it is not. You might as well check/clean the MAF and Intake Air Temp sensors when you have the hood up.
IAT sensor
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/ca/f8/0900823d801bcaf8.jsp
According to Haynes, at 38 F, the resistance should be 35 to 40 K-ohms, at 182 F (1.9 to 2.5 K-ohms) and 218 F (1.0 to 1.3 K-ohms).
And since the PCM uses both the MAF and IAT to determine the amount of fuel to achieve the ideal air/fuel mixture ratio, you might as well clean the MAF sensor while you are at it.
MAF sensor
http://www.contour.org/mods/mods.php?s=howto&displayid=36
and
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=zetecmaint&Number=989728&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
and
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/cb/25/0900823d801bcb25.jsp
oh boy, I can see this not being good. I cleaned the MAF when I did the induction cleaning, but the air intake sensor is just sitting next to the K&N because I didn't know what to do with it. So I will clean that tonight, but is it already a lost cause? or does it matter at all taht it is just sitting there under the hood? i think I will customize the filter tonight so I can put the sensor in it so it gets clean air. come to think of it, I believe that the computer MIGHT have said something about taht, but I can't remember for sure. But I will get to that soon and post what happened.
Put the IAT back in and you should be fine.
Ok, gotta update for you guys. I fixed the hose that runs from the intake to the block there, the one that runs under that black cover in the front of the engine. It was duck-taped terribly and you could breathe through one while plugging the other end. So its remporarily fixed, but is it important enough that I replace it? i did that and one of the vaccuum lines(kinda hard to explain, it was under a mess of coolant hoses) was half-off so I threw some carb cleaner to make it a little less messy, and it seems to be happier. however, the strange part is that a couple days ago, after it was dune sputtering and bogging on startup, it was FINE!! like full power, no issues at all once it reached temp!!! I think its doing the same thing yours is, Elradio. And I fixed another issue that it was having so I'm gonna hold off driving it in the lake for another few months here
anyway, now I have a slow but steady (I think, still ahve to look again today) oil leak taht jsut started after the road trip. I think its coming from the gasket where the oil pan attaches to the block (I took it off 2 years ago and didn't replace it) but I never had issues until now. It has always been a very slow leak (leave the car for like 2 weeks and there will be 1 or 2 drips on the ground.) But I need to get that fixed so I can get accepted back into the garage. If I wipe it down a couple times a week, It won't drip but that could get annoying too. So any suggestions there would be good. And if anyone can hlep with the cold start bogging issues, that would be nice becuase as it is now, it works so I'm jsut gonna leave it alone until it goes bad again unless I know what to do to fix it. I still have to put the IAT back in, but the wires arn't long enough so I'll probally have to rig it to work. anyway, thanks to Tony and Jason, along with everyone else that has helped me out here.
" It was duck-taped terribly and you could breathe through one while plugging the other end. So its remporarily fixed, but is it important enough that I replace it? i did that and one of the vaccuum lines(kinda hard to explain, it was under a mess of coolant hoses) was half-off so I threw some carb cleaner to make it a little less messy, and it seems to be happier."
Duct tape would be a temporary fix in this case. You should change out the hose or use a hose connector (if is is not too near the "block").
"(I took it off 2 years ago and didn't replace it)"
If you mean the gasket was not replaced, yes, there is your leak problem there.
"And if anyone can hlep with the cold start bogging issues, that would be nice becuase as it is now, it works so I'm jsut gonna leave it alone until it goes bad again unless I know what to do to fix it. I still have to put the IAT back in, but the wires arn't long enough so I'll probally have to rig it to work."
Pretty sure the cold start is related to the IAT (and maybe broken vacuum lines).
Allright, I will fix most of this tonight hopefully, if I get time that is. Ths oil gasket will have to wait til the weekend, but the IAT I should get done tonight. Thanks alot Tony.
Update-except for the very very annoying belt issue, The car is almost good again. I went on a raod trip last weekend and when I was there took some electrical contact cleaner to the contacts on the IAT. They were so full of that white grease stuff I was almost wondering if it was shorted out.... anyway, it said it was safe for most surfaces so I sprayed the sensor too.
yea, check engine light has been on ever since so I'm sure I fried it. Oh well, it got me 2.5 more MPG on the way back!!! I am in the process of buying a new one and rigging it up to go into the air filter. So the bogging has gotten better, I mean its uncomparable to what it was doing before. the car has power again, it dosn't backfire, and boggs bery little when its cold and clears up relativley fast. So thats where I stand there, the gas milage is still about 2-3 mpg low, and that bugs me cause I have a 800 mile trip this weekend but 24.5 mpg at 75 is better then the crap 22 i got before. i got 27 once with A/C on a month or so ago, so I know it can get better IF the car wants it to, I seem to have not much control. But I will update when I get the IAT sensor and let ya guys know whats up. Oh, and I took carburater cleaner to the intake manifolds(couldn't fine intake cleaner) and yea, big mistake. the car ran terrible and bogged worse then ever(this was about a week ago) and didn't like that at all, and its not the first time it did that when cleaned that way, so I'm guessing its not coincidence and will keep tahts stuff away from it now. Spraying the main vacuum line(with the PCV) with taht stuff and letting it sit there worked wonders, though and that helped me a little too. anyway, still open to any suggestions and will update as issues are (hopefully) resolved.
ok, now I'm really lost. I would say that it suprised me, but nothing suprises me anymore. So I went on a 1000 mile road trip this weekend from Olrando to Atlanta. got, oh, about 20 mpg with about 1 hr of rush hour traffic and constant stop and go and then 2/3 cruising at 85mph. then saw the mialge and slowed to 75 and got about 23-24 on mostly flat. I got to my destiantion (30 min NE of Atlanta) and was getting almost 26 mpg in the Georiga hills, so as the night went on it seemed to get better cause I pulled in at 11:30pm. now this is where it gets intresting. on the way back I got 23 mpg for the first half, then the gas needle stopped moving altogether!!! My milage randomly went up to at least 27-28 MPG, and I had power like never before!!! I havn't had this much power since about half a year ago before all this happened!!! I hardly touched the gas to keep it at 75, and when i put it to the floor it jsut flew (well, compared to what it used to do)!!! Since then, I think i have more power, but since its town driving I really can't compare it, and the town MPG is about back to 16-17, which is absolutley terrible!! I shift at 2000 prm or so, btw so i'm not hard on it at all. but that MPG miracle happened abut half way through the trip on the way back, like after 4 hrs I left Atlanta for ORL, and I dind't notice it the power until I accelerated from a tool booth since I had the cruise on. Again, I got in late at night taht night too. So this is my theory- it makes all logical sense to me, but with this car if you use logic you will never fix it, so I'm not sure if it is true or not. I have the IAT sensor disconnected since I fried it and a new one is on order. my GUESS is that when I disconnected the sensor it put the engine in a default mode. This default mode called for much cooler air then it got in the FL heat, so the mixture was off. once the air cooled off outside, the default was closer to what the actual temp was so the mixture was about right, therefore giving me more power and mpg. More logic behind this-my milage slowly went down over the course of a few months. I could attribute this to the IAT sensor slowly getting more dirtier as time went on, since it wasn't inside the intake but jsut sitting in the open under the hood. I know it was dirty becuase when I cleaned it, it was much brighter and jsut ovisouly more clean. So when I put the new one in when it gets here, it should, according to logic, fix the MPG problem, right?!?!?!?! Like I said, I'm weary of this becuase logic has rarley if ever worked with this piece. And hopefully I will have that power again, but if I jsut get more MPG then thats all I really car aobut becuase I'm going 3k more this summer on road trips, but will stay put if I keep getting crap gas milage. So my question: Am I close, right on, waaay off?? Please, anyone with any suggestions as to why it will jsut randomly gain power(this happened before, and I still didn't figure it out) chime in with a suggestion!!! ok, I realised that that is probally the longest post I've ever typed up so I will leave it at that and pray someone can help me out.