New here, questions on 2.5l Duratec

the image doesn't work because they aren't allowed in sig's. takes up bandwidth and it adds to clutter. images in posts are allowed though. welcome to CEG, hope you enjoy your stay

edit: you beat me to it

Welcome. A few things to note. Coolant 1/2 inch above max. Oil 1/2 quart above max. And change WP (to metal or white impeller type) if it has not been changed.

Jim Hahn
1996 T-Red Contour SE Reborn 4/6/04
3.0L swap and Arizona Dyno Chip Turbo Kit
364 whp, 410 wtq @ 4,700 rpm !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?! Sweet mother of Moses! I didn't know that you were putting down that much freakin' power. Do you want to do the same thing to my car? Sorry if I am hijacking the thread.

Wow a lot of replies guys, thanks!

Uhh than I guess that is why my pic won't work...That is ok, it was 100% unrelated to Ford's, and Contours, anyways. In fact it is GM

(At least it's domestic...)

The car has 154k on it, with a brand new engine from Ford. I know the Duratec's aren't known for being mechanically sound, in fact I've heard nothing but bad things about them, but I figured the pervious engine lasted to 150k, and this one is a crate motor, so it should be good to 100k with my spirited driving.

Tony2005, can anyone back this up? I'll raise coolant level and change the water pump, but overfilling oil capacity is a big nono, and I do not want to jeopardize this. I realize you know a lot more than me when it comes to these, but I've never heard this before with these motors, and would like someone to back it up and explain why to me. Other than that I'll do it.

Thanks!

btw, my would be sig pic is below (Don't kill me)

I have heard almost nothing but good things about the duratech. I am at 163K and the engine runs smooth as can be. I also know there are a few people on this site who are WELL over 200,000 miles. Just take care of the waterpump and use mobil 1 oil in it every 5000 miles and you should be fine.

Originally posted by AaronZ34:
Tony2005, can anyone back this up? I'll raise coolant level and change the water pump,... overfilling oil capacity ...

LOL. All CEGers will back this up. LOL. Do a quick search for spun bearings, coolant light, oil level. LOL.
Welcome to our world.

Ok I am working on it on Sunday, I will go to Mobil 1 (It is what I use in all of my DOHC engines anyway, and I get it wholesale), and go 1/2 qt over. I will also go the same on coolant.

Sorry, I am just new to these, not here to bash them at all, it has to be my daily driver for the next few years. I picked it up for pretty cheap, and have been impressed so far. Its interior is a lot nicer than that of my Luminas, but the Z34 has a lot more power. Overall it is a great driver, enough power, smooth, etc.

btw, my tranny shifts really harsh, almost like it has a shift kit, is this normal?

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

and go 1/2 qt over. I will also go the same on coolant.

Oil 1/2 quart over max. Coolant 1/2 INCH over max.

For ATX issues, try the drain and refill by Starjammir

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=992476&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

Originally posted by Tony2005:

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

and go 1/2 qt over. I will also go the same on coolant.

Oil 1/2 quart over max. Coolant 1/2 INCH over max.

i go almost a full quart over prob about 3/4's
btw i love those z34's i actually found a mtx z34 a few months ago..was a fun drive

Thanks guys I will do that.

I like the Z34 for what lies beneath the hood and how it looks, but the rest of the car is pretty blah.

I didn't know that they made mtx z34's.

Yes in 1991-1993 the Lumina Z34, or Grand Prix 3.4, could get a Getrag 284 5-speed. It is a very rare, and VERY expensive option, but IMHO well worth it. The car is lot more fun to drive, and a lot faster.

I've owned 2 5-speed Z34s, sold the first after modding it pretty far, and keeping the second for daily driving. The car is too big and heavy to race, and can't handle worth a [censored]. So I did what any normal person would: Bought a Fiero, swapped in the Z34 engine, modded it to hell, and hunted down Z06's

Originally posted by elraido:
I didn't know that they made mtx z34's.

me either...i went with my friend to pick up his csvt there was a red one sitting on the side of the building,so i figured i always liked these i'd check it out went over to it..holy sh!t its a five speed..kinda clunky,and clutch pedal was REAL tight..

WOW, You still own a Fiero? I used to sell parts for them for many years! I was even modifying them and doing the body conversions for a while. I sold out most of my parts a few years back right when the market ($$$) for parts seemed to go away. In the 10 year or so that I was in to the Fieros I cut up well over 100 of them and owned every year and model. My last one that I owned (as my personal driver) was an 87GT that I dropped a Buick 3800SC motor and trans in. That was a very nice engine in that car. I've done more 3.4L (not the DOHC) & 3.1L engines than I can count, long before anyone was selling over priced kits for them. I did a couple of small block swaps, but for the time involved, money & power gains I liked the 3800 best. Anyway, that's all history! No more Fiero's and no more Fiero parts. Fun cars with a lot of potential.

Welcome to CEG. I think you'll find that this is among the best auto sites out there!

i've always wanted to own a fiero gt with a sc'd 3800

Not that I really NEED to back it up, but here's another "yea" for the following:

6-6.5 qts of quality 5W-30.

1/2 inch over coolant for the finnicky coolant light.

and the white or metal impellar waterpump (25 minute job.. DO IT TOMORROW!.. No, wait... today!!!!)

Ray

Yah I've got a 88GT (BEST year/trim), and am playing with it now. I love it, that is all I can say.

The 3800sc is overrated, but it is pretty powerful, and modding it is cheap. But I'd much rather have a DOHC, 8000rpm V6 that makes more power without a blower on top. I have just never been a fan of low end motors, another reason why I enjoy the Contour (Even tho it doesn't have all that much high end either...lol)

Throw a mtx in the car and have some fun!

Originally posted by AaronZ34:
Yah I've got a 88GT (BEST year/trim), and am playing with it now. I love it, that is all I can say.

The 3800sc is overrated, but it is pretty powerful, and modding it is cheap. But I'd much rather have a DOHC, 8000rpm V6 that makes more power without a blower on top. I have just never been a fan of low end motors, another reason why I enjoy the Contour (Even tho it doesn't have all that much high end either...lol)

The 88 was the best year from the factory, but back when I was modding Fiero's you could do more with the 84-87 chassis and it would ride better, handle better and stop better than a stock 88. Back then you were considered EVIL by the Fiero world if you did wnything to make the 88 chassis unpure! I'm sure that's all changed now. There has to be all kinds of parts to up grade an 88 these days. Also for swaping motors, the 84-87 engine cradle was bigger and needed almost no modifications to drop in a bigger engine. I did a couple of 3800's on 88's and needed to notch the cradle and do a few other mods. The V8 required even more work.

I'm a low end person. I personally am not a big fan of high revs. That's why I went with the 3800 over 3.4. Well that and the 3800 was a bullet proof engine and took up about the same amount of room in the engine compartment as the 2.8 did. I liked how the torque band started low because at 65 MPH I was only doing about 1800 RPM, but I could easily pass someone with out down shifting. Personal preference. I do know several people that did the 3.4 DOHC conversion and put a lot of miles on them with out any trouble. It's just like the Duratec....some throw rods and others go for 200K + miles.

Yah nowadays the 88s are the ones to have. There is less of an aftermarket, but the suspension si so much better that we don't need any help with it really. Justdrop it an inch, poly bushings all around, and you can own the autox track.

Also nowadays people are fitting engines into every cradle. But the 3.4 DOHC bolts into the 88 cradle whitout any mods, using the factory mounts, so it is pretty easy that way.

I will be doing most of this work on Sunday to the Contour, and I'd like to find some SVT intakes as well, I'll keep an eye out for sure. And I may buy a set of headers too...

Thanks again for all of the help!

Originally posted by AaronZ34:
I have just never been a fan of low end motors, another reason why I enjoy the Contour (Even tho it doesn't have all that much high end either...lol)

I had a '95LX with the six and autobox, and it had pretty decent pull, but the automatic does just suck the power. Still, with an SVT exhaust and a K&N intake, it didn't get in its own way and sounded good.

One other thing you probably will want to look into is an auxiliary transmission cooler. The CD4E transmission is undercooled in the stock installation, which naturally can lead to problems with lubrication and wear.

i have two stock svt intake housings..a shoshop highflow y pipe..svt throttle body(60mm) stock svt intake tube..svt lim(needs white plastic piece

)

Originally posted by tour96se:
i have two stock svt intake housings..a shoshop highflow y pipe..svt throttle body(60mm) stock svt intake tube..svt lim(needs white plastic piece )

And you have a PM

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

-1988 Fiero GT 3.4l DOHC
-1992 Lumina Z34 3.4l DOHC

What the hell GM vehicle are those engines out of? IIRC, "DOHC" meant Dual OverHead Cam. "GM" and "DOHC" don't usually go together in the same sentence.

And, welcome to CEG!

Originally posted by PowerChris 5000:

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

-1988 Fiero GT 3.4l DOHC
-1992 Lumina Z34 3.4l DOHC

What the hell GM vehicle are those engines out of? IIRC, "DOHC" meant Dual OverHead Cam. "GM" and "DOHC" don't usually go together in the same sentence.

And, welcome to CEG!

3.4 dohc= monte carlo z34,lumina z34,lumina LTZ(nice car)
grand prix gtp???

Originally posted by tour96se:

Originally posted by PowerChris 5000:

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

-1988 Fiero GT 3.4l DOHC
-1992 Lumina Z34 3.4l DOHC

What the hell GM vehicle are those engines out of? IIRC, "DOHC" meant Dual OverHead Cam. "GM" and "DOHC" don't usually go together in the same sentence.

And, welcome to CEG!

3.4 dohc= monte carlo z34,lumina z34,lumina LTZ(nice car)
grand prix gtp???

The 91-97 body style GP (4 tiny sealed beam front end) had the 3.4L DOHC... Fairly powerful motor, 200-220hp depending on year. Very unreliable if not maintained correctly, like my friend's (95 Monte Z34) was in it's previous life. Had all kinds of engine electrical problems. I think they continued the 3.4 DOHC thru the 96 MY, then replaced it with the more reliable/torque, but less hp 3.8L OHV.

Also the Lumina Euro 3.4 (90-94 4 door style) had it. Not as high end as a Z34 as far as I could tell... used to be one sitting up the road from my mom's house all the time. Would walk by it going to school when my licence was suspended

.

The very low end base model GP in 88/89 had a 5 speed in it with a 2.8L (130hp whoo!) and maybe with the 1989.5 intro of the 3.1L (140hp). After 89 they dropped it. Guess they brought it back along with adding the 2.3L DOHC Quad 4 w/160hp (with ATX) as an option. Crazy. The early base Luminas had the 2.5L "Tech4/Iron Duke" I-4 (90/92hp) and possibly the 2.2L (110 hp IIRC) that replaced it. Crazy having a low power 4 cylinder in a larger car like that.

Also if ya wanna know... the 3.1L is a larger 2.8L; the 3.4L is a modified and larger 3.1L. They are all the same family. Also the 3.4L DOHC was built in Canada, just some useless info I found.

I am the keeper of all knowledge that is useless!

Originally posted by AaronZ34:
btw, my tranny shifts really harsh, almost like it has a shift kit, is this normal?

It may have problems... early ATX (CD4E) had a badly designed valve body or something. Would cause overheating and the "O/D OFF" light to flash. Mine (96GL, Zetec) would do a 2nd gear scratch after overheating, which was usually caused by long drives. Never had any tranny-related breakdowns though (7x for the alternator).

Drove it hard for nearly 50K miles in 1.5 years I actually drove it. Pizza delivery, 2 trips from Iowa to Texoma and back (one driving around there for 4 months), then finally to Montana where I traded it in.

Originally posted by Kane:
The 91-97 body style GP (4 tiny sealed beam front end) had the 3.4L DOHC... Fairly powerful motor, 200-220hp depending on year. Very unreliable if not maintained correctly, like my friend's (95 Monte Z34) was in it's previous life. Had all kinds of engine electrical problems. I think they continued the 3.4 DOHC thru the 96 MY, then replaced it with the more reliable/torque, but less hp 3.8L OHV.

Also the Lumina Euro 3.4 (90-94 4 door style) had it. Not as high end as a Z34 as far as I could tell... used to be one sitting up the road from my mom's house all the time. Would walk by it going to school when my licence was suspended .

The very low end base model GP in 88/89 had a 5 speed in it with a 2.8L (130hp whoo!) and maybe with the 1989.5 intro of the 3.1L (140hp). After 89 they dropped it. Guess they brought it back along with adding the 2.3L DOHC Quad 4 w/160hp (with ATX) as an option. Crazy. The early base Luminas had the 2.5L "Tech4/Iron Duke" I-4 (90/92hp) and possibly the 2.2L (110 hp IIRC) that replaced it. Crazy having a low power 4 cylinder in a larger car like that.

Also if ya wanna know... the 3.1L is a larger 2.8L; the 3.4L is a modified and larger 3.1L. They are all the same family. Also the 3.4L DOHC was built in Canada, just some useless info I found.

I am the keeper of all knowledge that is useless!

Useless and slightly incorrect

The 3.4l DOHC was available in the following models/years, and ranged from 200hp/200tq (1991-1993 automatics), 210hp/215tq (1991-1993 5-speeds and 1994-95 autos), and finally 215hp/225tq (1996-97). They were dropped after 1997, replaced by the torquier, chepaer, more reliable 3800 series II supercharged.

1991-1994 Lumina Z34s and Euro 4 door (5-speed Z34 only)
1995-1997 Lumina LS and LTZ (Option on LS)
1995-1997 Monte Carlo Z34
1991-1996 Grand Prix GTP, option on base and special edition
1991-1996 Cutlass Supreme (No 5-speed convertables)

The engine has huge potential, just no aftermarket to bring it out. This is the list for the 5 highest HP numbers so far, I'm in 4th with a TERRIBLE dyno (Should have been around 245whp, we were having tuning problems)

1) TimG, 263whp turbocharged/intercooled
2) Kevwood, 257whp built block, head work, tuning
3) Bowtiekid, 218.8whp bolt ons
4) Me, 218.6whp with more bolt ons (I had custom built tuned equal length headers, he didn't, yet he still dynoed higher when all other mods were the same)

So we are not even up to your Duratecs with almost a full liter more

But our aftermarket is growing, slowly but surely.

A few pics of my Z34 and the motor that will be in my Fiero soon:

Is the fiero gonna be a manual?!

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I think you mean the LX model.

87 octane

K&N RU-3530, maf adapter, and homemade heatshield. Best bang for the buck. Run a search in the duratec preformance for more info.

Would that intake be better bang-for-the-buckwise than switching a stock SVT airbox?

Originally posted by KindaMapOfTazi:
Is the fiero gonna be a manual?!

Of course!

It will be using the stock 5-speed Getrag 282 which came in 86.5-88 V6 Fieros.

Originally posted by b0mbrman:

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I think you mean the LX model.

87 octane

K&N RU-3530, maf adapter, and homemade heatshield. Best bang for the buck. Run a search in the duratec preformance for more info.

Would that intake be better bang-for-the-buckwise than switching a stock SVT airbox?

But, of course.

Much better. Leave the heatshield off and it drops to only "better"...

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:

Originally posted by b0mbrman:

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I think you mean the LX model.

87 octane

K&N RU-3530, maf adapter, and homemade heatshield. Best bang for the buck. Run a search in the duratec preformance for more info.

Would that intake be better bang-for-the-buckwise than switching a stock SVT airbox?

But, of course.

Much better. Leave the heatshield off and it drops to only "better"...

Ray

Really? Even though the SVT's intake gets it air routed straight from the fender?

What do you think a heatshield does? draws air only from the cool side.

Without the heatshield the performance of the filter in raw CFM's is still better (MUCH better) though heatsoak at idle will hurt performance, bringing it much lower (back to just "better" for me)

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:
What do you think a heatshield does? draws air only from the cool side.

Without the heatshield the performance of the filter in raw CFM's is still better (MUCH better) though heatsoak at idle will hurt performance, bringing it much lower (back to just "better" for me)

Ray

And what do you think the SVT airbox does? Gets air only from the fenderwell.

Beyond better filter material, there isn't much intuitively that would say why an open air filter would be better. Now, if dynos show that the open air filter truly is better, then so be it. I'm just looking for the science behind it.

Oh, and that better filter material is also available from this K&N drop-in filter replacement

Originally posted by b0mbrman:

And what do you think the SVT airbox does? Gets air only from the fenderwell.

That was kind of my comparison, and why I was stating that the RU-3530 would be better... It performs the same job, draws air from the same place (when using a heatshield) and flows more air (more surface area, even if the same filter material with the drop in..)

Dyno gains are proven, though I don't have those handy, nor any links.

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:

Originally posted by b0mbrman:

And what do you think the SVT airbox does? Gets air only from the fenderwell.

That was kind of my comparison, and why I was stating that the RU-3530 would be better... It performs the same job, draws air from the same place (when using a heatshield) and flows more air (more surface area, even if the same filter material with the drop in..)

Dyno gains are proven, though I don't have those handy, nor any links.

Ray

Oh ok. I get what you're trying to say.

If you ever come across a graph for just switching out w/the K&N drop-in filter, that would be interesting to see as well.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I currently do have the K&N RU-3530 installed

I wish I could remember this guys name, but at the CEG nationals a couple years ago, he switched from the stock SVT intake to the open filter there in the picture on the dyno...I can't even remember the freakin results...So, I'm absolutely NO help...I back out now...

Oops, now that I look at all the pics again, it looks like he actually switched from one aftermarket intake to another...I'm really no help...

Originally posted by AaronZ34:

Originally posted by Kane:

The 91-97 body style GP (4 tiny sealed beam front end) had the 3.4L DOHC...
Also the Lumina Euro 3.4 (90-94 4 door style) had it.
200-220hp depending on year.

Useless and slightly incorrect

1991-1996 Grand Prix GTP, option on base and special edition
1991-1996 Cutlass Supreme (No 5-speed convertables)

Whoops... My bad... was going to write "pre-97", but that includes the 89-90 with composite headlights, so wanted to state the exact years, but forgot to change the 97 to 96.

Didn't know the exact years, so just did all the years of that body style

Just used the first figures I found on that one... This page would have been helpful.

Also off on the 4 cylinders... the 2.5L was used in the Lumina only from 90-92 with 105hp. 2.2L (SOHC?) used in 93 Lumina w/120hp. So not as weak as I thought. The 2.3L Quad 4 used in 90-91 Cutlass and GP w/160hp. The HO 180hp Quad 4 used in the 90 Cutlass. A teacher at my high school had a 90 Beretta GTZ with the 180hp Quad 4... was pretty cool. From what I hear, the Quad 4's are fairly unreliable too...

So ya, got me on those ones

Still useless, none the less... well, unless you're a 3.4L/Quad 4 fan. Would be like talking about Contour motors on a W Body forum. heh

I always liked the Cutlass convertable

BTW, your engine looks pretty cool with that intake setup.

Thanks, that was just a mock up tho. I am heaving heads built right now for it, so more pics within the next month or 2.