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TSS replacement: What part, where to get it, and how the %&*@! to remove the old one?

Bob Blaylock

Bob Blaylock

CEG'er
Joined
Apr 24, 2001
Messages
135
Location
N38°35' W121°29'
Refer to this thread.

It appears most likely that I need to replace my Turbine Speed Sensor (TSS). This looks like it ought to be a ridiculously easy part to replace, but it apparently isn't.

The two most useful threads from the archives seem to be these:

http://www.contour.org/legacy/ubbthreads/testsite/show_thread.php?postid=473799
http://www.contour.org/legacy/ubbthreads/testsite/show_thread.php?postid=331844

From these threads, I've learned the following:
  • This part can be very difficult to remove.
  • The part originally used in my car (F7RZ-7M101-AA or F3RZ-7M101-A) has been discontinued, replaced with a newer version (XS7Z-7M101-KA or 1S7Z-7M101-KA).
  • There seems to be some question as to whether the newer part will work correctly in transmissions made to use the older part.


So I am looking for whatever guidance I can get. I've had very, very little success finding this part in searches on any auto part source web sites. Even FORD.COM is coming up empty.

If I can only get the new version, I need to know what results others have had using this in older cars.

And has anyone figured out a reasonably easy, non-destructive way to get the old part out?
 
The transmission itself must be positioned slightly differently between the two cars.

This picture was taken some years ago, of my now-deceased 1996 Mercury Mystique.

attachment.php


With the wheels turned to the left, there is a very clear line of sight to the TSS.

On my 1997 Contour, it seems that it was farther back, more behind the wheel, not quite so much out in in the open.
 
andreslobo said:
That part has no moving parts. It is simply a proximity sensor that counts the speed of the oil pump (input speed). It can be a real bugger to get out, but a vice grip clamped onto the bugger and a hammer ought to do the trick. It'll ruin the part but since you WILL go to FORD (not that much money < $50) and get a new one first it won't be problem. Clean up the bore with some scotch brite and put the new one in with the NEW bolt that comes with it.

The new VSS WILL work in your trans no problem (it is a direct fit just looks a bit different), the new bolt is longer and when you get the new VSS you will see why. Pay no attention to the hysterics of the VSS thread weenies, it'll work, just order it and do it.

Best of luck
Click to expand...

One more question. Some of the accounts I came across in the archives had this sensor breaking up as it was removed. I wonder if there's a danger of broken pieces falling into the transmission where they can't easily be removed without dismantling the transmission. Does the TSS bore open into the rest of the transmission in such a manner as to make this possible?
 
andreslobo said:
That part has no moving parts. It is simply a proximity sensor that counts the speed of the oil pump (input speed).
Click to expand...


Now that I think about it, perhaps this answers this:

Bob Blaylock said:
I wonder how the TSS fails. When the VSS failed in my Mystique, a plastic shaft had broken, so that rotation simply wasn't being transferred to the sensor at all. This meant that as far as the car's electronics were concerned, the car was never moving. I would expect that if the TSS had failed in a similar manner, that the transmission would be now behaving much more badly than it is. Any way for the TSS to fail that lets the electronics think that the turbine is still spinning, but not at the correct speed?
Click to expand...


The VSS in my Mystique had a plastic shaft, that mechanically connected it to some spinning part in the transmission. The manner in which it failed was for that shaft to break. So the failure was total; the part in the transmission kept spinning, as usual, but the sensor didn't register any movement at all, so it registered that the vehicle was not moving, no matter how fast it might really be going.


However the TSS is failing, it's not a simple mechanical breakage, taking it all the way down to zero as happened with the VSS. I bet it's registering some speed that intermittently fluctuates a fair bit from the real speed.

I wonder if the TSS reading is something I can get with my OBD–II system. One thing I'd been meaning to do was to go for a drive with my OBD–II hooked up, in order to verify that the transmission was otherwise behaving in exactly the way I assumed it was (that I wasn't, for example, mistaking torque converter locks/unlocks for gear shifts). I'd rather reached the point of thinking that this was unnecessary. I think, just on engine RPMs related to vehicle speed, that I've objectively convinced myself that I am, indeed, getting at least gears 1 through 3 working more or less as they should, and therefore ruled out the common and expensive 2-4 band failure that simply takes out second and fourth gears completely.
 
leave it be and you will replace a 2 4 band

leave it be and you will replace a 2 4 band

The bang shifting is incredibly hard on the trans. Normally the valve body 'slips' the clutch by applying line pressure in a controlled manner. When it bangs shifts the clutches or the band solenoid (hydraulic one) gets full line pressure now and hammers the parts. The band is not all that sturdy and bang shifting will eventually break it or some other part of the trans. The TSS is cheap and may even fix your problem. If the TSS falls apart on removal don't worry too much, the clearance between the oil pump rotor and the pump housing is fewer than .010 on a worn pump. So no the pieces will not fall into the trans.

PS from your previous post it appears that you admire the problem more than fixing it. Am I correct?
 
The new TSS is in. The transmission is definitely behaving much better, but it's still just a bit out of whack. Perhaps this is the result of using the new-version TSS in place of the old one?

It sometimes still seems to rev a bit higher than I think it should before it shifts, and sometimes the “O/D OFF” light begins to flash. Is there anything more I can do, or can I expect to just have to live with it this way?

I did reset the PCM (by pulling fuses 9 and 11).


And it seems that I do have something to boast about.

Based on various reading on this forum, nobody ever gets the old TSS out in one piece, right?

Old_TSS.jpg
 
Maybe a band is going

Maybe a band is going

I had a broken band and bang shifting when I bought a cheap tour. As it was a school commuter, I wasn't worried about replacing the band, but the bang shifting was real concerning so I replaced the TSS and fixed the bang shifting.

With the TSS replaced I had your exact symptoms, shifting at a high rpm (skipping the non functional 2nd gear). To verify if you have a BROKEN band unplug the ROUND trans connector and see if your car moves. If it does, then the band is probably okay. If not it is likely band time.

I got my vss out in one piece, an ugly one, but still one piece.
 
andreslobo said:
I had a broken band and bang shifting when I bought a cheap tour. As it was a school commuter, I wasn't worried about replacing the band, but the bang shifting was real concerning so I replaced the TSS and fixed the bang shifting.

With the TSS replaced I had your exact symptoms, shifting at a high rpm (skipping the non functional 2nd gear). To verify if you have a BROKEN band unplug the ROUND trans connector and see if your car moves. If it does, then the band is probably okay. If not it is likely band time.
Click to expand...


I definitely have all four gears working. I verified this on the way home from work tonight, paying attention to the tach, the feel of the car, and such. During the time leading up to the TSS replacement, I was paying attention to this as well, and could only verify the first three gears; and I simply assumed that I don't get into fourth until I get up to freeway speeds. But now, I've repeatedly felt it go from first to second, second to third, and third to fourth. Fr extra verification that it was in fourth gear, I hit the O/D button, and felt it go back into third.

I have no doubt at all that all four gears are there.


andreslobo said:
I got my vss out in one piece, an ugly one, but still one piece.
Click to expand...

I bent the metal piece up a bit, but otherwise, I got the part out relatively undamaged. If the TSS wasn't already failing, if it had been a good part, I have no doubt that I'd be able to straighten the metal plate, put it back in, and have it continue working exactly as before.

I think the reason for my success in this regard is that during the course of a previous, unsuccessful attempt to remove this part a few days ago, I sprayed a lot of SiliKroil on it. I think that over the course of a few days, this oil worked its way in and loosened things up so that I could more easily remove the part when I tried again today.

I had imagined that perhaps the reason for this part being so difficult to remove might be that the rubber gasket sticks to the metal. I now think otherwise. Though the transmission casing is aluminum, there is a steel plate through which the TSS goes, and this was rusty. I didn't think much of this until I tried to put the new TSS in, and found that it wouldn't fit. It turns out that the fit of the TSS through the hole in this steel plate is very tight, and the rust made it even tighter. I think this is what makes it so difficult it remove an old TSS, and this is what initially kept the new TSS from going in. I had to clean the rust off of the inside of this hole before the new TSS would fit through it.
 
TSS removal Trouble

TSS removal Trouble

hey guys, long story short, i got half the tss out, but the other magnet half is still in the trans case. any ideas of how to get it out?

2. If i can't get it out, is it safe to drive it without that sensor temporarily?
 
I forget

I forget

uummmmmmmmscoot

I don't remember if that part of the pump is under pressure. If it is it just might do you a favor and blow the stuck part out. Or not.
 
andreslobo said:
uummmmmmmmscoot

I don't remember if that part of the pump is under pressure. If it is it just might do you a favor and blow the stuck part out. Or not.
Click to expand...

I don't think so: i'll continue this discussion in my Please help, no forward or backward thread
 
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