Rust Converter / Undercoating

[Beans]

Can't find a proper place to put this

Anyway, this is directed toward my svt, i have spent too much money on the car to sell or let it rust away. First part is pretty easy. 2nd might be harder.

The current shape of the body is good, i plan on painting the entire car in the future, but right I'm more focused with the underside. The car has lived its entire life( i think) in Michigan so there is plenty of surface rust on the underside... nothing major. No holes/cancer. Rear subframe i would call that the worst. and its still just coated in rust.

My question is how should i go about extending the life of the undercarriage?

I was thinking about just getting some POR-15 or equivalent (probably cheaper that stuff is expensive) and some rubberized undercoating spray cans and going to town on the underside after a good wire brushing...

Anyone have any experience on this? Products used?

Thanks.

 

[ZeroHour]

I have undercoated things in the past with moderate success...but don't just spray over rust.

Clean the loses rust away, spray/paint on a rust converter and let it dry. Then Undercoat, I usually buy the Duplicolor professional undercoating. Its like twice the cost of the cheap stuff, but it works far far better and it will dry. I've found cheap undercoating always seems retain a tackiness to it and can be scraped off with no effort.

Also degrease, de-oil, de-wd40, etc where you are painting or it will not stick worth a damn.

 

[Phil Rohtla]

I have never found that any rust converter has worked long term, but then, I live in Ottawa, and a LOT of road salt gets used here.

POR-15, if properly applied (it takes several steps), is reportedly amazing stuff, but I am still getting rust through in some areas that I have applied it. My wire wheel was destroyed, so I guess that's my fault. I would use it again. I have never seen an "equivalent."

A wire wheel or rust removal pad will get a lot of the rust, but will never be as good as sandblasting.

 

[FIND]

What I have found with undercoating most of the time is that eventually it allows water to get underneath it, then it results in far more rust damage than without.

 

[Beans]

Thanks for the help. The car is going to be a summer only car, so i dunno if that changes any opinions.

As far as equivalents i heard about these:
http://www.rustbullet.com/
http://www.magnetpaints.com/underbody.asp
http://www.safestrustremover.com/

What I have found with undercoating most of the time is that eventually it allows water to get underneath it, then it results in far more rust damage than without.

Is that personal experience? Because i have heard this also, and it always seems like it's from cars from 1970 or around there.

Maybe skip the undercoating all together?

I'll pay for the top doller stuff if it's worth it, i just don't know a difference at this point... edjacakte me

 

[FIND]

I do use rust converter, with a high degree of success, but I also sand then seal or paint the surfaces I use it on afterwards.

Is that personal experience? Because i have heard this also, and it always seems like it's from cars from 1970 or around there.

Maybe skip the undercoating all together?

I'll pay for the top doller stuff if it's worth it, i just don't know a difference at this point... edjacakte me

This is just personal experience. 3 of my escorts have had undercoating, and the floors rusted, 4 of them didn't and I never had any floor rust, just the normal rocker rust. The other ones, I never really paid any attention. My contour, no undercoating, and next to no rust. My bonneville, undercoating and rust. My sable, no undercoating, no rust. My explorer, no undercoating, no rust, aside from normal rocker and fender rust. My continental, no undercoating, no rust. My old chevy pickup, no undercoating and the only rust was a hole under the drivers side where water had come through and sat under the carpet. I mean, there is light surface rust some areas on some of these vehicles, but every spring, I hit stuff like that with a wire brush and a little sand paper, then spray some sealer on it. Plus, during the spring, summer and fall, I spray the undercarriage of my vehicles to keep them clean. Heck, I keep the undersides of my vehicles cleaner than the bodies.

Of course, there could be a coincidental difference in the way people have cared for these vehicles, but, idk. Also, these vehicles that did have undercoating had it from the dealer, so one could argue they just did a poor job of it. My experience with coatings is that they all eventually peal away from the surface to which they are adhered, and when that happens, moisture can be trapped underneath. But then again, I do live in one of the few areas in the country that sees more sand and salt on roads than Michigan, and I am talking about vehicles that have been 10-20 years old at the time of these observations.

 

[Beans]

Alright. I get the point lol

So if you had my car, and where in my position what would you do? just por15?

 

[FIND]

Personally, I would just clean up the rusted areas and hit it with a primer/sealer.

 

[Beans]

something fancy? or just basic automotive paint?

 

[zorrex]

If it's gonna be summer only, I say brush off extra rust with a wire wheel and just hit it with Rustoleum black, but that's just me.

 

[FIND]

If it's gonna be summer only, I say brush off extra rust with a wire wheel and just hit it with Rustoleum black, but that's just me.

That, or just some basic automotive primer/sealer.

 

[CarpePoon]

por-15 FTW! had some trouble spots on the bottom of my old car after a couple MI winters. I used the por-15 neutralizer and gloss black paint on them. It was one of those things where I only did a small area, then graduated, got married, full time job etc... and never had time to really get under the car and finish. I did that work over 7 years ago and when I sold the car last December the paint looked virtually like the day I put it on.
One word of advice, wear gloves and DON'T get it on your skin, it will be there for weeks. Also when you put the lid back on the can, put a piece of saran wrap between the lid and the can, otherwise you'll seal it shut and won't be able to re-open it.

 

[Beans]

Well that sounds pretty good.. Did you use any of their prep products? or just the "rust preventive paint"

Any idea on how much to order?

 

[ZomzSVT]

I have used POR-15 in the past, and in my opinion there are better options for the money. Also, from my experience with the POR is that it needs to be applied to over rust. If you do too good a job removing rust down to bare metal, or if some spots are not as rusted as others it will not fully adhere. Down the road it will allow moisture underneath and those areas and will come through.

If I were you I would go to the Eastwood Company's website and look through thier products. They have been the most effective and easiest to use. Thier extreme chassis black is the most durable stuff I've found, and the satin matches an OEM finish very nicely (least for truck frames).

 

[Beans]

That also looks good.

Some kind of kit like this? think i should use that rust encrapulator?
http://www.eastwood.com/full-chassis-restortation-kit-black.html

 

[ZomzSVT]

If it's complete coverage of a light rust, the rust converter does nice to neutralize everything. I've only used it once, so I can't speak too much for the converter really. I've always just did as good a job of getting rid of what rust I can with a wire brush or flap wheel, gave a coating or two of the rust encapsulator, then coated with the extreme chassis black. If you do decide to try those products, follow the directions on them carefully cause they have some long re-coat times (~24hrs between coats) etc...

Couple examples of finish of a few things I've used it on (All were completely covered in rust. 92 Ranger driven 200k+, and a 98 Cummins Ram with 344k miles):

Frame is powdercoat, so ignore that but everything else is Eastwood stuff...

 

[Beans]

Not bad almost looks like powder coating

 

[Swazo]

I've used POR15, and it's alright stuff. It's more like superglue than paint, and it doesn't handle direct sunlight well without being top coated. Like mentioned, it won't stick to rustfree metal. There are a few ways to deal with that, you just have to get it to "flash rust". I live in the desert, but some of you in humid areas might be able to just let it sit a few hours to let nature do that for you.

I personally wouldn't use it again, nothing beats taking it down to virgin metal and epoxy primer w/ a topcoat or just powder coating clean metal.

 

[ZeroHour]

Another option is go and get the Rustoleum quart of enamel paint. Clean up the rust, spray a convert, paint on rustoleum.

In high school we had built a trebuchet and we used old school cast iron weights from some 1950-1960s gym set. The weights were rusted to heal, so we wire brushed them and painted with regular off the shelf rustoleum. Then during college it was requested the trebuchet be removed from a back yard, the top of the weight that was exposed to sun, snow, rain, hail, etc had faded, but the coating was still good, the underside sitting in dirt was virtually fine. might have had one or two bubble spots but it was probably more prep work than exposure.

One of the biggest keys is to seal it completely. Overlap whatever coating you use onto a good painted surface, or undercoated all the way to the edge. If you just patch undercoat, you could get water retention as others mentioned.

 

[ZomzSVT]

Just got an email from Eastwood. If you buy any rust encapsulator, before 5/26, use source code 1EM0278. Will get you 25% off.