I guess I am LOSING my Contour

[iskoos]

I now feel that the 10 year jorney is coming to an end.
I have had my Contour since August 1999. She was 4 years old and had 67k miles on it when I got her. This August it will be 10 years. I have had so many good days with her. She broke down and I fixed her so many times. The last time she got sick, it took me close to a year to get her back on the road but I didn't give up. This was at the end of past April. Since then I put another 2300miles and today while driving on hot and steamy Florida weather(Heat index 95-100F), the the auto tranny started banging all of a sudden while coming to a stop sign. It scared me!.. I pulled to a gas station and checked the fluid level and saw the level at minimum mark(while the car is idling). Bought Mercon fluid from the gas station and added about half a quart slowly(not expecting that it would magically fix her but it wouldn't hurt to add some fluid.)
After the gas station, I was still about 15 miles away from my office. The ride to office was very scary. The car was banging and rpm was really unstable. I then found a sweet spot around 35-40 mph and finally made it to my office. During the last couple miles it didn't do it and shifted smooth but I was becoming really easy on her. Driving very slowly and accelerating very easily.
I smelled the fluid and it wasn't smelling burnt. But the fluid color(before I added half a quart fluid) was a bit darker than normal.

Now, I am at the office and letting my baby cool down. After 5:00pm I will head home which is another 12 miles away. I will check the fluid level before I leave the office parking lot and be very very easy on her. I hope I can make it home safely. But no matter what I know what symptoms like this mean: The end of the road is close

It feels like the car cannot decide what gear it should be on and it struggles. As long as it is on one gear, it drives fine. (NO it is NOT the speed sensor. My speedo is working fine...)

I know it is hard but anything you guys can recommend at this moment will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I changed the tranny fluid a month ago. It was just a regular drain-refill. I did it 3 times taking a week or two in between each. But it wasn't a flush; just a drain refill. I don't think it has to do with it.
I guess she is living her last days...

 

[mcgarvey]

Do you have a flashing O/D light?

 

[iskoos]

Do you have a flashing O/D light?

I would say no but then I realized I left some receipt on the right side of cluster panel. So even if it was flashing, I wouldn't have seen.

I got home safely. And I watched the O/D light. It didn't come on but there was no reason because the car didn't show any weirdness on the way home. It was probably I drove it like a grandma; I didn't even see 40mph and I was very easy on the gas. I am pretty sure I got lots of nice words from people behind me.

Car was shifting okay. I watched it closely and it shifts at 5mph, then between 15 and 20mph and then around 30-35mph.

I am pretty sure whatever it was is still there. Symptoms like that don't go away on their own. It didn't happen simply because I didn't push the car.

Maybe too optimistic but could it be due to tranny(CD4E) got overheated?
And on the way home, it wasn't that hot and the trip was much shorter so it basically didn't happen.

What do you guys say? What could be the best and worst case scenario?

 

[zorrex]

The tranny NEEDS fluid to shift. There is no direct mechanical linkage between the input (engine) and output (differential). Without fluid, it'll shift like crap, if it even decides to shift AT ALL. Adding fluid will remedy the shifting issue it was having...

 

[iskoos]

The tranny NEEDS fluid to shift. There is no direct mechanical linkage between the input (engine) and output (differential). Without fluid, it'll shift like crap, if it even decides to shift AT ALL. Adding fluid will remedy the shifting issue it was having...

I see it but it did it after adding some fluid as well (from Gas station to office). Needless to say the fluid level wasn't all that low. It was at the min level. I added close to half a quart and now it is a little above the max level.

If this turns out to be some sensor or electrical issue, I would feel blessed.

 

[gorman]

I smelled the fluid and it wasn't smelling burnt. P.S. I changed the tranny fluid a month ago. It was just a regular drain-refill. I did it 3 times taking a week or two in between each.. the question that springs to mind is... where did the fluid go ? ...G.

 

[iskoos]

I smelled the fluid and it wasn't smelling burnt. P.S. I changed the tranny fluid a month ago. It was just a regular drain-refill. I did it 3 times taking a week or two in between each.. the question that springs to mind is... where did the fluid go ? ...G.

Well, really there wasn't a major fluid loss as I mentioned. The level was at the min. mark while the car was hot idling. Maybe it was always like that. Since the correct fluid level is read while the engine is hot idling, it gets difficult to get correct readings. It is easy when you do the engine oil. You clean the dipstick and dip it. Engine is not running and you get very accurate readings. To check the ATX fluid however, engine needs to be running so the torque converter fills up and no matter how many times I clean the dip stick and try to read it, fluid gets all over the dipstick and makes it hard for me to read.
What I am trying to say is that, it could have been at this level since I have done the last drain-refill.
The bottom line is fluid level wasn't alarming low; just a bit maybe.

 

[gorman]

I understand the level situation. I've just put some snake oil in my sisters' autotragic and i was concerned about over filling. ... G.

 

[Tony2005]

Scan for CEL codes. Then post. If you are lucky, it could be the Manual Lever Position Sensor or Turbine shaft speed sensor or Vehicle Speed sensor.

And yes, after all the "banging", you should change the tranny fluid again. Just drain it and fill with four quarts.

 

[iskoos]

I will scan it no problem. I have a scanner tool but I doubt I will get anything because first no CEL came on, second my car is 95 OBD-I, I don't think I would get any tranny related code.(I hope I am wrong)

I will gladly change the fluid again. I have done it 3 times and doing one more wouldn't hurt.

I know it won't be VSS. I will pray that it would be TSS or MLPS or I will say anything other than tranny itself welcome... Just not tranny please...

Can somone please explain this banging action? What's going on inside the tranny when it bangs?

 

[andreslobo]

Oil Change WILL NOT HELP!!! Give it a rest!!

Oil Change WILL NOT HELP!!! Give it a rest!!

OP, don't waste your time and $$ changing oil, it will NOT help. I simply don't understand why an oil change seems to be the automatic response to any trans problem.

As for bang shifting, there can be many causes. The reasons bang shifting can happen are:

If you can get the codes pulled, do that first, but be warned that most freebies at the auto stores only scan or report engine codes not trans codes. True from most cheap odb2 scanners as well.

1. The oil pressure is too high, maybe on a 95.

2. Either the TSS or VSS are not working, without input from both sensors the electronics cannot match the speed and the trans shifts roughly (bangs) Since your speedo works, I'd look at the TSS. The old TSS has a black plastic body the new style has a white body. The OD light does not always flash for this issue. But first check the wiring to make certain it is still connected and is not shorted anywhere.

3. Valve body is giving up the ghost and will not allow the trans to shift smoothly.

4. MPLS is reporting the incorrect gearing. Could be due to wear or corrosion, usually the bolts holding it into place don't magically loosen themselves and allow the MPLS to move. An easy check is to put the trans into neutral and see if the marks line up. They will.

 

[Tony2005]

OP, don't waste your time and $$ changing oil, it will NOT help. I simply don't understand why an oil change seems to be the automatic response to any trans problem.

As for bang shifting, ..

You are giving bad advice. When the tranny has been "banging" for such a long time (anything more than a few miles), the tranny is running undergoing severe service. Whilst the OP does not report burnt looking tranny fluid, it does make sense to change the tranny fluid. The first (and only) time my VSS broke, I drove for less than 10 miles on it and then had it towed to the dealership. Besides changing the VSS, they also flushed the tranny for good measure. Most CEGers who had VSS problems (and continued driving for about 40 to 50 miles) report that the fluid was burnt. For $10, it is good insurance to change the fluid after such an event.

..If you can get the codes pulled, do that first, but be warned that most freebies at the auto stores only scan or report engine codes not trans codes. True form most cheap odb2 scanners as well.
..

If the TSS, VSS or MLPS is broken, the computer will record a hard code which can be retrieved with the OBDII scanner (reader).

Autozonelink Manualleverposition

MLPS
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...smission+Range+Sensor&partId=0900c152800a8d72

Link to fastcougar's pictures in NECO. The first picture shows the tranny with the black TSS in the bottom center.
http://www.fastcougar.com/cd4e_rebuild/index.htm

 

[Tony2005]

I received a PM disagreeing with my posts above. Below is my reply.

When the tranny has been "banging" for such a long time (anything more than a few miles), the tranny is running undergoing severe service. "Whilst the OP does not report burnt looking tranny fluid, it does make sense to change the tranny fluid"

If the engine has undergone extreme stress (due to overheating), and it has not "locked up", the advice given is "change the engine oil first".

OP did say the car was driven more than a few miles with the tranny knocking. I stand by my advice.
\

 

[Suba Blu]

years and years ago when I had my Cougar the same thing happened to me.. I'm willing to bet the (!) light was on...

my tranny fluid was overfilled by almost a quart thanks to Jiffy Lube.. Seeing as how your symptoms were not there on the way home either you didnt get the fluid hot enough or on your way to work it did get hot enough and boiled over to release some additional fluid.

My money is on you overfilling when you changed it and then adding more again

either drain it completely and fill with the amount (or slight below) what it calls for in the manual or suck some of that fluid out now and drive the car normally - if the car is suddenly fixed, I was right.

my (!) was flashing and the car was violently shifting.. very very violent bangs.. I was driving the car normally and didnt notice anything wrong until I attempted to take a long trip - as soon as the fluid got hot (about 30 minutes into my trip) the incident happened..

 

[andreslobo]

The rest of the story

The rest of the story

My private post to Tony

Originally Posted by andreslobo
Tony

While changing trans oil at intervals is important, changing it to address a trans problem is often wasteful of resources, time, and money. Yes while bang shifting does cause the trans to operate under extreme conditions, it does not quickly wear the oil out.

As for a shop that flushed your trans oil after changing a sensor for bang shifting, they simply did it for the money. Its called increasing the bill. And if they are like most shops that now change trans oil, all they really do is to remove it, filter it, add some additives, and pour it right back in.

It seems that at almost any trans problem you pipe up and recommend a triple change. Of much more benefit to others would be to offer troubleshooting advice starting with proper trans fluid level and smelling the oil, then moving onto other areas. Most troubleshooting is free and may take the person down the correct path. Changing oil on a trans that is headed for the rebuilders costs the person money and time better spent elsewhere.

Tony

Same old tired and mostly ineffective advice to change oil no matter the issue. Your signature of doing the "cheap and easy things first" if really your mantra would be to offer diagnostic advice in the form of troubleshooting, most diagnositics are cheap (free) and much easier than changing oil.

While changing oil usually couldn't hurt it rarely helps.

 

[iskoos]

Guys thank you so much for your inputs. This is going to be a very long post. So if you do not want to read the whole story please jump to the part after ***************************

I will try and make a few things clear as much as I can.
First, I would like to make this point very clear that I do NOT have any (even as remote as possible) expectation that changing transmission oil will cure this problem. I have never done any tranny reapir nor do I know much about transmission but I am grown enough(I consider at least) to know that changing tranny fluid and expection that the symptomps go away is super optimistic.

My tranny has some issues beyond the fluid. Yes, it did weird things past Wednesday on my way back to my office from a field trip. It bang-shifted several times, the rpm was unstable, I even felt that it was disengaging but I managed to drive back to my office. All this happened all of a sudden. I reduced the speed and around 35-40mph, it started driving smooth. I pulled into a gas station to check the fluid level as I had nothing else I could do. The fluid level was at the min level(as best as I could see) with the engine idling. The color was darker than it should have been(since I recently did 3 drain-refills). I knew it should have been low oil related issue but I bought some Mercon fluid and added close to half a quart. The level went back up to max level(maybe a bit more-it is really hard to be certain)
After the gas station, I was about 10-12 miles from my office. It did bang shifted for about 10-15 seconds, then drove smooth all the way to the office. So do not think that the car was bang-shifting back and forth and I was driving it like that for miles. I would have never done this.
At the office, I let the car cool down till 6:00pm and head home(12-mile drive). It didn't make any problem. In the same night, I drove to a friend house nearby, it was okay too. The next morning(Thursday) I went to work and came back home again without an incident. But I was driving so slowly seeing only max mph of 40. Thursday night, I had to drive to a nearby store and on the way there, it bang-shofted again(only once!..) I was at 30mph and shifting to 4th gear. So it bang shifted again. Then I knew that the issue was still there. It is not low fluid for sure.
Now, it is Friday. I plan on doing another drain-refill either today or tomorrow. I will do this not because I expect anything will get better. I will do this:
1)Becasue I have enough fluid to do another drain-refill in my garage
2)It won't take me long but only 30minutes
3)It won't cure the problem for sure but cannot hurt to add some fresh fluid in there and also I would like to see what will come out of it...

So Andreslobo, I do understand your point. You are trying to save me time and money and I find you totally right. I 100% agree with you that nothing will change when I do another drain-refill. But I love this car so much that I can do this one more time even if I won't be able to save her.
I already have the fluid sitting in my garage; I better use it...

Tony, thank you so much for the link to CD4E rebuild. I saved it to my hard drive.

*****************************************

Now after this background, I will like to see what I might possibly do to fix this issue. I have AutoXray 5000 scan tool that is capable of scanning any type of car. It can even do transmisson scan but my car is OBD-I and in OBD-I protocol, the scanner doesn't provide any transmission scan.
I did however perform KOEO scan to see any codes were stored in the memory.
I got code 335 (I have had this code since the day first and I could never get rid of it.) If I go buy a new DPFE sensor, I will still have the same code.
I also got 668 memory code that I have never seen before. But I looed at Haynes manual and this code doesn't exist. The scan tool reads 668 but then it shows "11 system pass" for the explanation. This is weird. I didn't get it...
I didn't do KOER test will do it when the engine is hot.

Now, My VSS is okay. And I know the symptoms when it goes out because it happened to me couple years ago. The speedo doesn't work and you only get 1st and 2nd gear(I guess) and the shifting is very hard. But it doesn it everytime it shifts no matter you drive it slowly or fast.
This time it is different, speedo is working without a problem.

MLPS: I don't know how it works. Ther eis only "D" printed on it and when I put it on D, the notch on the plastic rotating thing lines up with the letter "D" on the sensor body.

TSS: I located it, lookslike I can easily access it if I remove the front left wheel. Is there a way to test this sensor? I don't think it will be expensive. Should I replace it?

QUESTION: How do I read the tranny codes on my car? Can any shop do it? How?

Again I am sorry for the long post but I wanted to be as descriptive as possible...

 

[iskoos]

KOER Test

KOER Test

I did the engine running test after warming up the car.
The 2 codes I have are:

336: Again related to DPFE
167: Insufficient throttle position range change (this is simple becasue I don't depress the gas pedal all the way down during the test. Engine shakes alot due to worn engine mounts if I do so)

So the codes I have totally irrelevant to the tranny problem I am having. And I would do whatever is required to read any tranny codes if someone would tell me how to do that. Is there a different data socket to test the tranny?

 

[Tony2005]

My private post to Tony

Originally Posted by andreslobo
Tony
.............. And if they are like most shops that now change trans oil, all they really do is to remove it, filter it, add some additives, and pour it right back in.

...

The Ford dealership flushed the tranny fluid. They did not do a drain and refill. And certainly not refilled the tranny with filtered tranny fluid.

 

[Tony2005]

...TSS: I located it, lookslike I can easily access it if I remove the front left wheel. Is there a way to test this sensor? I don't think it will be expensive. Should I replace it?

QUESTION: How do I read the tranny codes on my car? Can any shop do it? How?
...

The TSS costs $27 or so. Note that it is a bear to remove it. The old ones (95 to 97?) were made of metal and tend to rust. Most of us change the TSS when we have the 1-2 bang shift. I got a CEL hard code when my TSS went. But then again mine is 1996 (OBD-II).

If you believe the tranny fluid change will not make a difference, save the fluid for the rebuild. You will not hurt my feelings.

I think most tranny shops should be able to read the codes for the 95s.

 

[iskoos]

I will order a new TSS Tony. I say order because I know my chances are very slim to find this in stock in town. I think what I have is what you are talking about: the one that is difficult to remove. It looks black. It felt like it was plastic but could be a metal. I didn't touch it. I am planning on removing the wheel to look at it tomorrow.
Yes, I do believe that another drain-refill will not fix anything but it cannot hurt either. I was planning on doing this tomorrow as well but I might wait a bit.
My car is functional the way it is. I am willing to take it to a tranny shop to read the codes but how would they do it? Do they use the OBD-I port or there is a separate one for tranny?
And the most important thing is to find a reliable tranny shop