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Cheap LSD conversion

it's $299...what's a torsen, $500? $600? for that much more i'd rather get the torsen/quaife as they are still a higher quality and stronger piece.
 
yeah that has been known about for years. everyone still just gets a torsen/quaife. iirc it just puts extra pressure on the spider gears which is the weak point ...

cheap and performance don't go together ...
 
cheap and performance don't go together ...

So true. People also hoped these would work on the Mazda transmissions but it led to failure as well. Now some Honda transmissions seems to be sturdy enough that a PG locker works great because I know a few people with thousands of miles on modified motors without a hiccup but our differentials seem to be fragile enough on their own without jamming one of these in there.
 
I would be tempted to try it on a pre98 diff, but for all the work to pull the trans and install the PG, you might as well install the Torsen or Quaife.
 
Here's what happens a few thousand miles after a Phantom Grip conversion is installed in a Taurus SHO diff. The conversion removes two of the 4 spider gears to make room for the spring blocks. If the Contour OEM diff is an Aluminum case diff, you want to run away from Phantom Grip, very fast.
 
yeah, I discovered this years ago, it's basically the opposite of a solution to our diff woes.

I'm surprised the tone of this thread isnt more negative.
 
just cryo treat dem there side and spider gears and you prolly wont have any issues.

wish they made a tru trax locker for these opens diff like like mustangs. Those things work great. replaces all the gutts period.
 
just cryo treat dem there side and spider gears and you prolly wont have any issues.

wish they made a tru trax locker for these opens diff like like mustangs. Those things work great. replaces all the gutts period.

You mean an Eaton Truetrac differential? That's a helical gear torque biasing diff, it's not a locker, it's not a limited slip, it's torque biasing, like the Quaife or Torsen diffs which are also torque biasing, and are indeed available for the MTX-75 and MTX-76 transaxles. I'm aware that Eaton calls the Truetrac a "limited slip differential", but it's action is that of a torque biasing or torque sensitive diff. Even their description of its action, found here, is torque biasing.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produ...Products/Products/Differentials/FAQ/index.htm
When does the Truetrac lock up?
The Truetrac is a helical gear limited slip differential and never “locks up”. The Truetrac operates by transferring power from the spinning wheel to the wheel with the most traction. If one tire breaks traction, the amount of rotation (or spin) is controlled. The torque is then sent to the other tire that still has traction.

Limited slip diffs respond to axle (wheel) speed differences, not torque differences.

The problem with the Phantom grip "limited slip conversion" in the Taurus SHO diff, beyond that it eliminates two of the four rather important spider gears, is that it exerts a spreading force on the sun gears, and that causes them to have less tooth engagement with the spider gears, and when gear teeth are engaged at their tips, instead of down in the stronger root of their teeth, the teeth break, and while cryo treating might delay the inevitable failure, it won't prevent it. The other problem with the Phantom Grip is that it produces it's "limited slip" action by causing the outer faces of the steel sun gears to bind against the inside surfaces of the Aluminum diff housing. As the Aluminum housing wears, the sun gears spread even further apart, the teeth engage even less, and you get the pictures in my previous post.

I'll give PG some credit, it's product works pretty well in Iron cased diffs, and apparently has decently long life, especially in lightweight cars, but in this engineer's opinion, it's a poor addition to an Aluminum cased diff.
 
Torque Biasing diffs, such as the Torsen and Quaife, are forms of gear type mechanical limited slip diffs. the other mechanical type LSD is the clutch type (which uses a series of friction discs). the third type of LSD is the viscous style.
 
You mean an Eaton Truetrac differential? That's a helical gear torque biasing diff, it's not a locker, it's not a limited slip, it's torque biasing, like the Quaife or Torsen diffs which are also torque biasing, and are indeed available for the MTX-75 and MTX-76 transaxles. I'm aware that Eaton calls the Truetrac a "limited slip differential", but it's action is that of a torque biasing or torque sensitive diff. Even their description of its action, found here, is torque biasing.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produ...Products/Products/Differentials/FAQ/index.htm


Limited slip diffs respond to axle (wheel) speed differences, not torque differences.

The problem with the Phantom grip "limited slip conversion" in the Taurus SHO diff, beyond that it eliminates two of the four rather important spider gears, is that it exerts a spreading force on the sun gears, and that causes them to have less tooth engagement with the spider gears, and when gear teeth are engaged at their tips, instead of down in the stronger root of their teeth, the teeth break, and while cryo treating might delay the inevitable failure, it won't prevent it. The other problem with the Phantom Grip is that it produces it's "limited slip" action by causing the outer faces of the steel sun gears to bind against the inside surfaces of the Aluminum diff housing. As the Aluminum housing wears, the sun gears spread even further apart, the teeth engage even less, and you get the pictures in my previous post.

I'll give PG some credit, it's product works pretty well in Iron cased diffs, and apparently has decently long life, especially in lightweight cars, but in this engineer's opinion, it's a poor addition to an Aluminum cased diff.

Not what i was talking about. i missed a word.

I was refering to the powertrax locker. replaces all of the guts PERIOD in a OPEN DIFF. no biasing nothing just a locker.

http://www.richmondgear.com/powertrax/nsexploded.html

but they do not make this for the contours.
 
but they do not make this for the contours.

And for good reason...

Have you ever driven a front drive car with a locking differential? More specifically, tried to turn a corner with any respectable throttle input in a front drive car with a locking differential? I have, on an autocross course, and if I hadn't been wearing a seat belt, the reaction force into the steering wheel would have spun me around in the seat. At the end of a 60 second autocross course, I was drenched in sweat. If all you're doing is driving in a straight line, weld the spider gears or install a spool, but there's a reason front drive cars get open, torque biasing or viscous coupled diffs, and it's quite simply because they're undriveable with anything else.
 
And for good reason...

Have you ever driven a front drive car with a locking differential? More specifically, tried to turn a corner with any respectable throttle input in a front drive car with a locking differential? I have, on an autocross course, and if I hadn't been wearing a seat belt, the reaction force into the steering wheel would have spun me around in the seat. At the end of a 60 second autocross course, I was drenched in sweat. If all you're doing is driving in a straight line, weld the spider gears or install a spool, but there's a reason front drive cars get open, torque biasing or viscous coupled diffs, and it's quite simply because they're undriveable with anything else.

YES i have sir. If its setup right like the powertrax it does unlock under turning i have driven a FWD with these. they are not that bad. its not locked unless ur 100 percent on the gas. And i dont know of that many turns were ur 100 percent on the gas. so it shouldnt be that difficult if you know how to drive sir.
 
YES i have sir. If its setup right like the powertrax it does unlock under turning i have driven a FWD with these. they are not that bad. its not locked unless ur 100 percent on the gas. And i dont know of that many turns were ur 100 percent on the gas. so it shouldnt be that difficult if you know how to drive sir.

I've gotta call shenanigans on that. There is a reason no one makes a locker for this car and there are very few for any fwd car. Its not a matter of knowing how to drive when the unit is constantly buckling and unbuckling as you try to make normal turns and throwing you all over the place.
 
i have never had issues with one. air lockers or anything even in trucks on dry pavement with air lockers or powertrax etc. its not hard if you know what ur doing.

The powertrax is silent operation. i have yet to have one thats any type of toss you around while turning or getting on the power. ITs smooth engaugment. ive made one fit in a front wheel drive before took some time to modify the carrier since they didnt make one for the car. AND it made it work. nothing to shabby. It doesnt THROW you all over the place at all.
 
And what front wheel drive car was this in?

AND THE PART NUMBER FROM POWERTRAX

But used it in a newer version of the car and some of the carrier had to be ground down to get it to fit in. But it worked. never had any issues plus car ran on soft road race tires all the time so it was alot more forgiving then street tires. Id have to make a phone call and see if its still running cuz this was about 3 years ago my buddy moved to florida took the car with him.

Eagle​
Front Axle​
1980 - 1988 DANA Model 30 92-0430-2700
 
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