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Car running real bad after placing new cams..

B

Bernardo

New CEG'er
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
12
Hi there...
I really have a big problem i think..
and i was hoping there is annyone ho can help me.

i have placed new cams into my 1998 2.5 v6 cougar (automatic.)
(the cams where used)

The cams came from a 3l duratec (3l st220 from a europe mondeo st220 with 226hp)

But now the engine runs terrible and shaking allot..
Its even dies a couple of time's whe run idle..
And when driving the car also shaking like driving in a to high gear when driving slow!!

Instead of hoping to get more horsepower i lose hp ALLOT!!!

Is there annyone how can tell me what we did wrong?
timing mismatch maybe? or does the car just need more fuel?
I use the sprocket,tensioner,guides,chains and cams from the 3L
i want to go to a tunner to fix the problem..
but im hessistaing that the problem is coming from the software..

I hope thes someone ho can help me..

best regards.

bernardo


ps
my setup is..
st200, lim,uim,tb
Pipercross viper Cai
Msds Headers and Y-Pipe
Then i also had a tune..

after that i placed the cams from st220.
i already have a appointment for retune..
​
 
Hi there; how much research did you do into this swap ?

I don't think i've ever seen anyone suggesting, let alone doing this swap. Pretty sure 3L cams produce power at lower rev's with the extra displacement, compared to higher rev range power banded SVT cams ... which may have been a better choice.

Hopefully someone on here or NECO can help you sort this out ....G.
 
hi there gorman..

I did a lot of research for this swap..
bud there wasw nobody ho coult tell me the resulst.

and i was hoping to get more low and mid range torque..
because of the automatic its verry slow below..

and because they are st cams from the 3.0L st220 i was hoping to get more in the above to..
There are not much people ho can help me :(

dont know wat to do anymore..
The engine is running verry rufe,and shaking allot..
dont know if a retune coult help me fix that.
also dont know if the chain timming is mismatching..

what do you think?
replace them with st200 cams would be a better option?

But will the car be slower in the low rev's?

i try'd to film the engine about how its running.
but i cannot get the movie on the computer..
 
Bernardo said:
hi there gorman..

I did a lot of research for this swap..
but there was nobody who could tell me the result.
Click to expand...

I didn't think i had seen anyone do this either.

I believe the ST220 cam's are a mis-match for your engine.

The ST200 cam's are the same as the SVT cam's ... either wil do.

There are two cam/sprocket chain sets. You will need to match up the set. I believe the ST220 cam's are different to stock 2.5L cam's .... so you should have both sizes covered. Check for yourself though.

Look on NECO .. http://www.newcougar.org/ the sister forum to this.

Check back and let us know

I wouldn't recommend running your engine as it is. ...... G.
 
hi there gormon..

What did you mean with both size's covered?

i changed the changes,tensioners,guide's en the cams all 4 of them!!

i'm no mechanic but do you mean i have to change the valve's to?

i know that the svt and st200 are the same but in europe they have a mondeo st220 those are also svt but than for the 3l (svt or st give them a name)

but what will you do if you where me?

the engine is really running bad, i can drive with it, and when driving sometimes its reacts strange but its good to do!! but what i recornize inmiddeatly is the los hp.

im sorry for my bad english..

im from holland

thank you for your help gormon..

and the newcougar.org (blackcoog) send me to here i also have a account over there :)
 
Bernardo said:
but what will you do if you where me?
Click to expand...
personally i would not modify an ATX.
Some guys have tried and ended up buying a manual transmission car because the auto box is the weak link.
Put the stock cam's back or use SVT cam's and re-map your pcm

Bernardo said:
What did you mean with both size's covered?
Click to expand...
there are two size chains used for this engine... looking at them you will notice one style is wider than the other. Don't mis-understand, the 2 chains in an engine are the same .... it's ford changed the design so you need to match the chains and guides to the camshafts you are using. Also; you may notice that some cam's have 36 teeth and some have 42. ....G.
 
hi gorman..

2 different kind of chains?

Well the chains i orderd al come from a st200 engine include the tensioners and the guids and the sprocket.
and set them on time for the 2.5l

but if the chain has 42 or 36 chains woulden't that make the chain longer?
it all fits well together..

Would that also change the time of the chain if you know what i mean..

I already ordert the st200 cams and will replace the st220 with the st200..

or do you think its possible tomake them work?
and how will i know if i have the correct chain?

The atx is already modified and im not a wild driver..

sometimes on the highway i change a gear back.but i will not hit full gas when im standing still if you know what i mean..

i dont thing the timming is bad by the way..it could be that the chain issn't correct but if the timming is wrong would't that damage the valve's?

right know when driving it feels like a 30hp los i dont think that a retune coult fix that!!
do you??

Greets bernardo
 
You would definitely need a tune for this project.
If the chains were wrong, he would have figured that out already.
Timing could very well be off but it might just be the tune.
I think its great that you attempted this and hope you work the bugs out.
 
hi there mmc

Yes i t is a great project,
but the fact i just loose allot of hp right now make
me rethink about everything if i will get it well done if you know what i mean..
Woul't be a waste of money..

a retune cost me arround 500 euro because the guy have allot of work on it.

and if i get it to work woul't it hurt my engine..
normally if the cams will fit the engine shall run better right?
right now is a mess....

and i really think it woult be better to replace them with st200 cams..
than im really sure all of the thinks will fit..

i dont think if the cams of the st220 will work i can get more benefit than the st200
what do you think if i may ask?

i'm interrested into other opinions.

i'm really started to think more that its not only bugs...
but the cams just dont fit..

lets see
if i can get a movie on it..
 
We cant tell you if its worth the money to you or not because we dont know what the final result would be.
The ST200 cams are a well established replacement...we know what you get with those, but it would still be best to get a tune to make it worth the trouble.
Your car wont run well with either cam if the ECU thinks you still have stock ones installed.

In a full 3.0 build, there isnt much difference between the two cams...the SVT ones get a little higher peak power but it comes a little higher in the RPM range.

My opinion would be to keep going with this project, but that's just because I want to see if it works out...the smart choice would probably be to go to the st200 cams if you can get them cheaply.
 
guys... that engine sounds horrible. Try not to run it any more than you have to.

When you take the timing cover off for the cam swap ... take photo's of the timing marks and chains so we can see how it was set up .....G.

p.s. no need to apologize for speaking your own language .... we're cool with that.
 
If I were you, I'd reverse your cam swap by going back to the original. Even if done properly, I don't think the cam swap would be much of a benefit, if at all.
 
Here i am again..

i orderd the st200 cams from england and i will expect friday.
the new cams will also placed friday, and then i will take a pix of the the timing chain..
saturday i will go to the tunner and im wondering what i win with the cams..

1 time stndard was 110hp on the weels no tune after that because of a weird line in my torque.
second time was with the uim,lim both svt,pipercross viper cai 120 hp
after tune 134 hp al hp ar on the wheels (2.5 v6 automatic)

after the last tune i put the msds headers and y pipe
and now the svt cams..

i'm what i can expected :)
hopuly arround 160hp on the wheels.
and i think thats not bad for my engine...

if im correct,excuse me when im wrong..
but normally its 170 on the crank..and the first time was 110 on the wheels so thats 60hp lose
because of the atx..
so if im correct and i wheel get 160hp on the wheels?
+ 60 hp of the atx is 220 on the crank?? correct??

i like this forem so i will udate as soon i know more..
including pix :)

ps what do you guys think of the paint of my engine??
ive let everything painted black and white :) i think its a little bit two white but cool :) dont you guys?

in holland now its 11:15 in the evening so i will search for my bed haha..
nice talking to everyone hope to talk to you soon guys..

annyone whants to buy st220 cams?
they fit in the duratech 2.5 haha ;-)

Greets
Bernardo from the netherlands
 
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