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boost leak or turbo lag?

M

mixtape

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Dec 17, 2007
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Jump to post #60 for most current update:
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?77296-boost-leak-or-turbo-lag&p=1039406#post1039406

Hey everyone, I just got my CSVT back this past weekend!! Now mated with a turbo kit :cool:.
However, unfortunately I'm having a bit of trouble with it. Please take a look at the video.
Any help is much appreciated!
Thank you!

Specs:

Master Power turbo (T3 turbine)
.50 compressor A/R (48 trim)
.63 turbine A/R (83 trim)


Also, shout out to Aircougar (Greg) for all the help he's done with this build
 
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boost leak. recommend either a smoke test or soapy bubble test (using a pvc pipe with a scharder valve threaded into it would help so you can pressurize)
 
the car was already tested for leaks. It was running well for using stock injectors and maf, which should be upgraded. It also needs a complete dyno tune.
 
If you get it tuned on a chassis dyno you will be able to hear a boost leak. Most leaks will be easy to find because the idle speed will be higher. If it is a boost only sealing problem then you have some work to do in order to find it. Your system is different than ours so I won't be of much more help. A boost leak in ours normally means a hose was blown.

Doesn't pull like ours so get it tuned before you damage it.
 
idle was dead on as I recall when I saw the car. The car is only a 2.5, so it pulls well but it is of course nothing like a turbo 3L.

The way the vac lines to the bov and wastegate where setup are odd, but it works. Like I said alot more work is needed for this car, but the base is solid imho.

I'll watch the video when I get home tonight and comment more.
 
My thought is the boost controller. Everything sounds good to me. If the boost controller is telling the waste gate to open, it will never allow the turbo to produce a higher pressure. I think you are able to spike to 7-8psi as the waste gate is in the process of opening. Once open, the boost seems to level off at 4.

What psi spring is in the waste gate? Are you able to remove the boost controller, or at least bypass it and re-test?
 
Adam, when I was riding along int the car it was making 7~8 lbs of boost. However if you get on it around 3 krpm it wouldn't boost. From a stop it would.

Now the BOV is referenced to the intake manifold and the wastegate it referenced to the intercooler. boost controller was adjusted to get 7 psi. I don't completely understand it but when the vacuum lines where run like I did on the NPG kit, all from the same reference, it wouldn't make any boost at all.

Needless to say, there is more time and work that needs to go into this car, however the starting point is solid as far as I am concerned.

The boost shouldn't be turned up at all since the boost level is part of the sniper tuning tune that is running.
 
AS A TEST I would plug any line going to the wastegate since it should have a spring regulating it and not really need anything else. Drive it and see if the boost goes to 8 and stays there ( assuming it is a 8lbs spring ).
 
Sounds like your BOV is constantly open...oh, and my 2.5 is practically as fast as Brapple's, so don't let him fool you that 3L's are so much greater ;)
 
From the video it definitely sounds like a boost like somewhere in the cold side piping (intercooler).

I couldn't get a real good look at the kit, but if the piping is too small it will drastically delay the time it take for the turbo to spool up, although in the vid you can hear the turbo spooling which is why I believe there is a leak somehere.

Boost Leak Tester

There is a link describing what you need to do to build your own boost leak tester. Find the right size pvc pipe and coupler for either your turbo inlet, or for the air filter inlet. Once you build it, take off whatever section of pipe you need to, put the tester on there with the hose clamps and either pump it up with a bicycle pump or slowly with an air compressor. Don't go more than 10psi or so otherwise you could cause unwanted damage other places.

If nothing happens during that test, i.e it hold pressure and you dont hear any sounds, then you probably do not have any boost leaks.

What kind of tuning is done to the computer?
 
crewchiefpro said:
AS A TEST I would plug any line going to the wastegate since it should have a spring regulating it and not really need anything else. Drive it and see if the boost goes to 8 and stays there ( assuming it is a 8lbs spring ).
Click to expand...

iirc it has a 3 or 4 psi spring in the wastegate.

TUFTOUR said:
Sounds like your BOV is constantly open...oh, and my 2.5 is practically as fast as Brapple's, so don't let him fool you that 3L's are so much greater ;)
Click to expand...

iirc what you could do in 4th I was doing in 5th gear ;). This car isn't slow, but it just doesn't put one into the seat as a 3L turbo can :laugh:

bhiggs89 said:
What kind of tuning is done to the computer?
Click to expand...

Sniper tuning software was used to tune the PCM. This is also why we keep suggesting proper injectors, large maf and a dyno tune as a minimum.

I did data log the car and can post those logs. I didn't see anything unusual in the data. I know under wot and full bost of 8 psi in my car the maf is reading close to 42 #/hr or minute, what ever the measurement is. IIRC the max I saw was maybe 20 here, so the number was higher then what I would expect for stock but not sure if it was enough.
 
some info on the "kit" that was installed

car has an old ADC turbo kit with larger air-water intercooler setup, but has different turbo and miscellaneous parts that was an attempt to match what is in the npg turbo kit...

after tons of missing parts were replaced, various pipes, fittings, and lines remade and refabricated by myself, i got the car running about 2 months ago.
Click to expand...
 
Take pictures of the wastegate and blow off valve and where the vac lines run.
 
crewchiefpro said:
AS A TEST I would plug any line going to the wastegate since it should have a spring regulating it and not really need anything else. Drive it and see if the boost goes to 8 and stays there ( assuming it is a 8lbs spring ).
Click to expand...

without a boost reference the wastegate will never open (unless pressure in the manifold blows it open) and boost should just continue to rise. I do recommend this test but be careful as your right foot on the throttle is the only boost controller you would have for the test. if you see the boost pressure hit over 8PSI quickly then back off the throttle, you have an issue with the boost controller letting boost get to the wastegate to soon. if it still doesnt boost properly then you may have a boost leak (a BOV staying open or leaking counts as well) or perhaps the wastegate is blowing open.
 
striker2 said:
without a boost reference the wastegate will never open (unless pressure in the manifold blows it open) and boost should just continue to rise. I do recommend this test but be careful as your right foot on the throttle is the only boost controller you would have for the test. if you see the boost pressure hit over 8PSI quickly then back off the throttle, you have an issue with the boost controller letting boost get to the wastegate to soon. if it still doesnt boost properly then you may have a boost leak (a BOV staying open or leaking counts as well) or perhaps the wastegate is blowing open.
Click to expand...


Previous post said 4 lbs spring, so my guess is it will open at that regardless of the vacuum line connection ( mine does ). A spring that weak could be the whole problem.
 
The wastegate spring might be the issue. However with my car I started with a 3 psi spring and was using a mbc and never had something like this occur.
 
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