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Mysterious problem

C

cntrtry

New CEG'er
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
8
Ok I’ve got an unusual problem with a 95 contour with a 2.0 zetec. First a little background information. I bought two identical 95 contours (other than the color) one for my wife and one for my college bound daughter. Wife’s ran fine but daughters started to lose power to the point she had to have the pedal to the floor to even get it to go 55mph and it would go slower than that on a hill. Not kicking and sputtering just losing power. I told her to try a full tank of premium fuel but no improvement. She managed to get it home and since then it cranks and tries to start but won’t run.
I started checking the obvious things, plugs, wires, fuel pressure all good. No codes thrown, compression not the greatest but about 130psi on all 4. Disconnected cat right at exhaust manifold, checked timing belt alignment, 2nd notch on balancer lined up with mark on block, #1 & # 4 at tdc with #1on compression stroke, cam tool fits fine sitting flush on head in both cam slots. Thinking maybe all injectors are clogged (not likely but anything is possible) I pull the rail/injectors assembly off, disconnect the power to the coil and have someone crank engine while I observe all 4 injectors shoot fuel in sequence about 15’.
Now I’m really puzzled so I start pulling parts off good contour and swapping with bad contour. Ignition module, coil assembly, whole air filter resonator assembly with sensors, throttle body assembly with tps, crank sensor, cam sensor and finally even the pcm. In every case bad car still no change and good car ran fine with all bad cars parts in it.
At my wits end I decide to check where the spark was occurring. With an induction light clipped on the #1 wire I have someone crank while I check and low and behold the spark occurs way past tdc. There are no timing marks but with white paint on the second notch going cw the timing lights shows this at about the 7pm mark which by my guess has to be at least 30 to 40 degrees after tdc.
My question is has anyone ever seen anything like this and what would cause the pcm to retard the spark to the point where it won’t even start? Also is there any way to put the pcm in limp mode without special equipment? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Have you tried a new O2 sensor yet? I had an issue with a different car (similar symptoms to yours) and it ended up being a bad O2 sensor.
 
no, but I did unplug it and I'm quite certain it would at least still run without it.
 
ill be curious to see the answer, my sisters saturn sl1 acts a little like that, although it runs fine. It just requires flooring it to get to speed and if your going up a steep highway hill it will lose speed down to like ~40....good luck!
 
How do the wires look? are they fraying and loosing insulation? If so, I would pull out a multimeter and look for a short with your crank/cam sensor wires.. Or a short anywhere for that matter.
 
cntrtry said:
At my wits end I decide to check where the spark was occurring. With an induction light clipped on the #1 wire I have someone crank while I check and low and behold the spark occurs way past tdc. There are no timing marks but with white paint on the second notch going cw the timing lights shows this at about the 7pm mark which by my guess has to be at least 30 to 40 degrees after tdc
Click to expand...

Set #1 at TDC and make marks visible from the top.
Or, check the running car for comparison.

If timing really is that late i would guess the static timing is out, or the cam or crank sensor is triggering falsely. The ignition module should not be able to trigger that late as 10 BTDC is usually base.

The injectors should not shoot fuel 15" much less 15'. :)
Normally a mist cloud would come out. Perhaps this is what you meant.

Severe loss of power is usually a lean condition caused by vacuum leaks (did you check the pcv line under the exhaust manifold?) or misreported MAF or TPS data. I had a 93 crown vic once that would suddenly lose power til I unplugged/plugged the MAF connector.
 
What do the plugs look like? Did you replace the fuel filter? Could be a failing fuel pump.

I had some road debris hit my fuel filer and it kinked the outlet end and caused a clog. My car would run great for about 15 sec and suddenly loose power.
 
actually it does shoot fuel several feet maybe not 15' but at least 8' to 10' and its more like a squirt gun not a mist.
 
cntrtry said:
actually it does shoot fuel several feet maybe not 15' but at least 8' to 10' and its more like a squirt gun not a mist.
Click to expand...

Serious problem, that!

Watch the video down this page. http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/ic30336.htm

Something may be in the gas causing this, or they may just be dirty. If you decide they are dirty i either reccomend you remove them and have it done or get a new set from the lunkyard.
 
As long as you have raised the question about timing, check the other car and see what it does. What you are seeing might be normal.

I don't remember what the front crank pulley is like on the 4 cylinder, but many cars have a press on outer portion suspended in rubber to help dampen engine vibration. Sometimes this out part, the part with the timing marks, slips so the readings are very inaccurate. Check to see if you truly have it lined up with TDC (top dead center) by pulling the #1 (or #4) spark plug and turning the engine over to where the pointer lines up to the TDC marks and then with a long screwdriver (or welding rod or similar long skinny item) down the spark plug hole confirm that the piston is indeed at the top by slightly turning the crank by hand (wrench, socket, etc, but not starter) one direction or the other. If this is off, you will have both inaccurate cam timing as well as inability to properly read the ignition timing.

The two other things that come to mind are a restricted exhaust which it sounds like you covered (running briefly with the oxygen sensor should identify this for you), and a problem with the MAF circuit.

If you haven't already done so, you should drive it with a fuel pressure gauge installed to confirm good fuel delivery. It would not hurt to just replace the fuel filter for drill.

And, oh yes, if the injectors are questionable, run some injector cleaner through the tank. I like Red Line or the highest grade of Techron (not Pro-Guard). Once again since you have a comparable car check to see what it does and even swap injectors between cars if in doubt.

Please keep us informed.
 
Wow, it doesn't look anything like that video at all. My pattern on all four injectors look exactly like squirt guns with some mist. I'll take another look at the fuel system, thanks.
 
i think it's got to be related to the timing, a few other things come to mind not mentioned as much so far in the loss of power, coolant sensor, tours have pretty good track record but other fords have been known for coolant sensors reading way to cold and causing such a rich mixture they barely run. the just mentioned maf sensor. but it's been my experience neither should cause it not to start. and it sounds like you have fuel and spark, so all you need is timing.
 
squirt gun isnt good. check fuel system. for proper combustion you want a gasoline vapor...not a puddle.
 
Checked fuel pressure again and it's a solid 40psi during cranking and holds that pressure when ignition is shut off. Replaced all 4 injectors with known good ones and got the exact same double pattern squirt gun look with some mist. Either that's normal for this engine or the pcm is causing that to be abnormal too.
I did manage to get it started over the weekend and it ran fairly good for a short time. During this time when I checked for codes, 341 showed up which indicates whether the octane service connector is open or closed. Now here's what's interesting. While it was in this running mode it suddenly backfired and power dropped waaaaaaaaaaaay off to the point that with the pedal to the floor in park the engine was just above idle speed. It ran smoothly with no misfiring on any cylinders or backfiring at all but just wouldn't get much above idle speed.
When I shut it off it was back to the trying to start but won't mode. Also I checked for codes and it was back to just 111 which is no faults and code 341 was gone. The fact that this code disappeared without me removing the service connector jumper indicates to me that there is definately a wiring harness problem. Continuity checks between the pcm to the ignition module and moving to the main sensors such as the tps, crank and cam sensors is my next step.
 
Well the mystery continues. Continuity checked good on all connections from pcm to ignition module and sensors including all grounds and supplies. Most likely I'll junk it out and take $150 for scrap and cut my losses.
 
Well I decided not to give up just yet. It started again and ran well for about 5 minutes then backfired and stalled. Tried to restart and it actually stops the cranking like an extremely advanced spark and of course would not start. Pulled #2,3, and 4 plugs out in order to get it to crank and put the timing light back on. You guessed it, it went from an extremely retarded spark to a massively advanced spark. Did a little more research and found out this is an EDIS spark system and without any signal from the PCM will default to limp mode or 10 degrees BTDC. Next step is to disconnect PIP and SAW from the ignition module isolating it from the PCM to see if it runs.
 
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