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SOS: no-start ! tried alot , any tips ?

Y

Y99_SVT

New CEG'er
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
20
hey all , i joined up so i could make this post after searching through past non-starting threads for possible ideas to resolve my car's refusal to crank ! overview : go out 1day , engage key = click , click , click . okay so i need a boost , try that & same clicking . ok , get ride to work . next talk 2 ppl who say try "bump-starting" car , so i do & she fires up np and runs fine so i figure i need a new starter . okay , go buy starter and have friend come over last week and assist with install . after 2hrs , attemp to crank and same "clicking" !!!
so we hit this site and search and run some checks and try some things like : try to boost start off diff-vehicle , same clicking so btty is ok . we bench-test old starter and it plunges & cranks so it okay and eliminates possiblility that new starter is bad . we buy new ignition 30A relay and install it with no success . check PATS and is holds light on for 3secs when key in crank position as owner-manual states okay .
what am i missing ? ford wants $178 for all the cables from the btty to the starter , thats crazy ! anyways to tell if any of those have gone bad w/o a knowing how to use a voltometer ? advice very welcome , cheers !
 
Battery terminals secure? Good battery? Battery should read @ least 12.5v with engine off and 13.5+ when running

All ground wires secure?
 
Learn to run the voltmeter. Not knowing it is killing you NOW. It's not hard, they're cheap, will only save you hundreds (I'm not kidding here, I've saved many hundreds) in a long life. You cannot check the cables without it and you can only throw more parts at the problem. Knowledge is power, bucko. If the click coming from around the starter, you have only the cables left to throw at it since you've done everything else, or so you think. Only problem is, your logic stream is faulty. Failed jump off does not mean your battery is good, it just means you failed to jump off. You need the voltmeter skills to check both the battery voltage and charging voltage once vehicle is started and running. You many times cannot jump off with just one cable, the storebought ones really suck unless they're "super" cables. Many times I have jumped a car using TWO sets when car would not jump with one. The end connections at battery just do not make good enough connection to get full voltage from the jumper battery. A brand new battery should have somewhere around 12.86 volts to it, charging should be a MINIMUM of 13.5, better closer to 14. That cable array can be duplicated with bigger cables for MUCH cheaper, I replicated the one on a Focus (the battery cable fire problem) that was 30% bigger and cost maybe $40. You'll be doing some fabrication, crimping, cutting to do it. I used generic battery cables cut to custom length with my fittings on them. I'd be looking at battery first, you have not satisfied questions about it at all. Don't jump, SWAP the other guys battery to check. Make sure all your connections have CLEAN metal on them. I'm amazed at guys I thought were machine savvy that run battery connections so corroded it's laughable. They give me plenty crap saying that's not it until after cleaning it starts right up. You should see the "I'm stupid" look........!
 
amc49 said:
Learn to run the voltmeter. Not knowing it is killing you NOW. It's not hard, they're cheap, will only save you hundreds (I'm not kidding here, I've saved many hundreds) in a long life. You cannot check the cables without it and you can only throw more parts at the problem. Knowledge is power, bucko. If the click coming from around the starter, you have only the cables left to throw at it since you've done everything else, or so you think. Only problem is, your logic stream is faulty. Failed jump off does not mean your battery is good, it just means you failed to jump off. You need the voltmeter skills to check both the battery voltage and charging voltage once vehicle is started and running. You many times cannot jump off with just one cable, the storebought ones really suck unless they're "super" cables. Many times I have jumped a car using TWO sets when car would not jump with one. The end connections at battery just do not make good enough connection to get full voltage from the jumper battery. A brand new battery should have somewhere around 12.86 volts to it, charging should be a MINIMUM of 13.5, better closer to 14. That cable array can be duplicated with bigger cables for MUCH cheaper, I replicated the one on a Focus (the battery cable fire problem) that was 30% bigger and cost maybe $40. You'll be doing some fabrication, crimping, cutting to do it. I used generic battery cables cut to custom length with my fittings on them. I'd be looking at battery first, you have not satisfied questions about it at all. Don't jump, SWAP the other guys battery to check. Make sure all your connections have CLEAN metal on them. I'm amazed at guys I thought were machine savvy that run battery connections so corroded it's laughable. They give me plenty crap saying that's not it until after cleaning it starts right up. You should see the "I'm stupid" look........!
Click to expand...

+1
all good advice, the cost of the starter could have already bought him a nice meter. Not much different than reading a thermometer, just need to know a couple simple basics. Probably comes with instructions.

I'm guessing bad battery or bad terminal connections also from what little he explained. He didn't say if his headlights come on normal before trying to crank.

And if he is still afraid to put a meter on it just drive to Sear's, Walmart, etc. They all do free battery checks.
 
seriously sounds a lot like the battery terminals are insecure or corroded, get a wire brush, take the battery terminals off and clean everything down.

Then when you re secure the terminals back on the battery, tightening them down so they are nice and snug, I had this problem on my SVT, the metal on the factory battery clamps is very soft, causes it to stretch out over the years. Which means you can tightening the clamp on the battery terminal as tight as it will go, but you can still slide the clamp off the battery terminal very easily, what I did was get some vice grips and bent the battery clamps down, then I secured the clamps on the battery terminal and tightened, never had an issue again. Your other option is to go to autozone and buy some cheap aftermarket battery clamps, a lot of people go this way too and never have an issue again.

sounds exactly like the same issue I had, I made the mistake of dropping $100 on a new battery THEN figuring it out later. Wish I would have figured it out in my home town so I could have driven back and returned the battery :nonono:
 
I had an issue like this and irst thought was the starter. Pulled it and it tested fine knew it wasnt the batt cause it was new. finally to make a long story short it ended up being a bad ground. I got some good 4ga power wire from an old amp install and made a new wire to replace the one from the batt to the trans case and that fixed it.
 
thnks 4 the comments ! i guess i forgot to mention car had no CEL's and when motor wasnt running the LB's & HB's shined strong and the radio plays loud . also the dash lights all up so i'm 99% sure btty is fine . all terminals are clean & free from alkaline build-up and connections on firmly ! so far as using a slave battery i couldn't fit my friends mustang btty into the contours btty-box as the foam inserts don't allow it to sit inside the tray but i will look into testing the voltage specs as noted . i think those multi-meters arent too much cash and now that you have given me the #'s i just have to figure out what i should set it to ( DC/AC/Ohms ?)
true i have purchased the starter but it's 30day return policy and obviously i havent cranked it yet to the flywheel , only the solenoid has been clicking away so they can take it back if i find the real solution in time .
the bad ground is a real good possibility so i will tell my friend that we should be checking these somehow . should they be removed and cleaned or just tested for resistance ?
so far as buying 4G wire , i went down to the local auto-shop but they just sell generic lengths that have a single copper end clip . i explained my wire has 3ends within some plastic-type housing that attach to the starter solenoid and asked if they could fabricate that for me . they declinced saying something about "liabilites" .
i have also tried to source a dead-duratec car from the salvage yards to pull that specific cable but no one has any around , hard to believe !
someone said i could be the actual ignition module inside the steering column but if my car runs fine after push-starting it and engergises the solenoid it should be fine too ?
 
Sounds like battery cables to me. Your problem sounds just like the one I had a couple months ago. Melted POS cable, just a small section, but enough to drop voltage down to 6V at the starter when cranking. As stated, get a meter and check your voltages!
 
Battery or cables, you still have not satisfied the battery question. I have seen batteries that will do all you claim and still not crank a car. Even headlights not that big an indicator anymore, I changed a battery on a Tempo once that had headlights bright as hell, the battery fixed it. Go figure.
 
hey dacker , thanks for chiming in ! i searched back to your thread , it is extremely insightful !!! funny enough , when my apprentice friend was over installing the starter i think he pointed out that my positive btty cable looked melted ... could this very well be the case ??
as for the btty test , i borrowed a non-digital multimeter off a neighbour and on the 50V setting it read constant to an amount exactly the same as was read off of his working btty in his car . it was just a needle swing but both times it pegged at the 6/30/150 value on the V+mA scale . we tested a dead btty in his garage and the needle actually tried to go negative so it shows under a no-load scenario the btty is ok .
definetely need to source a good power cable from a deadV6 car and try that as originally noted Ford will not seperate all the cables so that would be $178 plus 13% tax and the fees to get it out of detroit .
still not ruling out trans ground , gonna have a good look at that , dont know if i can access it to clean it very easy . do you just steel-brush em or should i also spray some wd-40 on them too to shine em right up ?
regards all for these remarks !!!
 
I did all my grounds as well with no help, of course they were clean to begin with, but I just took the wire brush attachment for the dremel the the bolts, and then a little sand paper where the grounds made contact with the chassis and of course cleaned the connectors themselves. My wires were only $133, but then again, my mechanic sourced them from other than a dealership, still Motorcraft parts, just not from a dealer, some warehouse locally.:shrug:

Good luck!
 
looks like i to have to give-in and take it to the dealer for an expensive repair even though i'm sure i got a bad wire . i did resistance checks on all the wires after i cleaned all the grounds and the only wire that didnt have zero ohms was the 10mm ring-contact on that plastic housing at the far end of the positive battery cable that attaches to the 10mm stud on the starter solenoid . it wouldnt even give me a reading at all , so figure it's bad in some way as a new starter has been installed as well as a new relay and all fuses were checked . car bump starts so i'll take it in unless anyone wants to offer any miracle tip to cure that wire or any way to allow the starter to get enough volts to crank . ford sell all the wires together , so figure they will ding me with at least 2.0hr install and probably tack on .5 to 1 for diagnous even though i'll give them rundown , lol .
 
Hope this helps...take the voltmeter and do these tests. Just had to do this at school. This will tell you the problem with your car. First though you need to pull the fuse pump fuse so the car will not start.

1. Put the + lead of the voltmeter on the + battery terminal. Put the - lead on the positive terminal of the starter. The meter should read 0v meaning its not loseing any voltage through the wire. Next with the meter in the same place Crank the car. The meter should move very little .5volts or less. This will indicate a good positive cable.

2. Place the positive lead from the volt meter on the metal of the start housing or to the tranny/ engine where the starter mounts. Place the negative on the negative terminal of the battery. Crank the motor over. It should read .5volts or less. This will show a good negative cable.

I hope this helps determine which cable is bad.
 
The small 10 mm. should have low resistance too, that smaller wire is dead until you turn key to start position, then it must have 12 volts there. Use a jumper wire to jump from the battery plus to that small terminal on starter while the bigger wire in place at the 13 mm. nut. Starter will turn over if it's grounded and operable. In effect the smaller wires' 12 volts tells the starter to come on and operate. It goes to the coil of solenoid which internally connects the big wire to starter motor and throws the gear forward to engage flywheel.
 
thanks all , i caved and went to ford monday morning because i couldn't buy a voltmeter on sunday and i had asked way to many people for rides to & from work and really had to get the car running as the weather was getting worse . BIG lesson is to invest in the proper tools and never rule out possibilites because someone who has is not a novice like me told me that since all my lites/radio were good and we couldnt boost my car with his good btty that my battery was just fine ! also that little indicator window in the battery also fooled me as it was showing green not red , but dont trust it ! Ford said i need a new battery so here you go-$$$ and theres another $75 for the load test we did too. very stressed about it , but hope someone else learns from there errors .
 
I had this exact same problem -- I had a bad starter, but the battery was bad as well. It tested OK in a standard test, but when they charged it up full and tested it, they found a problem. I bought a new battery, and the problem is gone.
 
That's why I kept stressing battery not proven to be good yet. On these electronic cars battery can cause all sorts of weird troubles and yet seem good by all the old shadetree tricks. You can't just think battery is good you MUST KNOW that it is. I'm used to starter solenoid just kicking in a little bit slower to tell me when battery getting marginal, nowadays car does not do that. Battery just quits with no warning at all other than I knew it had a lot of time on it. Lights will still look pretty good, but that doesn't mean anything anymore as lights are not the load they were compared to all the computer stuff that has to be up and hot to make engine work. That little green indicator is only in one cell, that cell may be good but one at other end of battery can be bad, so indicator don't mean jack.
 
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