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starting help

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bensenvill

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
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Chicago
ok so after the car sitting pulled apart for a long time, everythings back together and I'm trying to start the darn thing.

The starter is cranking the engine but its just not turning over. I have a bit of whiff of gas so I think its getting fuel but I have no idea if its getting spark or not and am not sure how to go about proving that. I'm using a jump starter pack so I should be pushing enough CCA's to turn it over.

things that might be pertanent:
the alarm system has been cut out [was proved to work removed before it was cut out].
The IMRC wiring was extended, I trust my soldering work.
An SVT TB was swapped in [well actually its a 3L TB], the TPS sensor was swapped from my stock TB.
All wiring in the car was pulled and later reinstalled, I like to think I didn't miss anything and have double checked most of it.

any ideas... I'm so close.
 
yes I was pretty thorough about the grounds.

how can I check if it is getting a spark or not?
 
bensenvill said:
...The starter is cranking the engine but its just not turning over. ...
Click to expand...
Clarify what you mean by this.

Is the engine not turning at all? (seized engine)

Or do you mean that the engine is turning slowly? (most probably bad battery, even though you could be using jumper cables).
 
after sitting this long its entirely possible you've lost compression on the cylinders and adding a teaspoon of oil to two different cylinders will aid in returning the compression long enough to start it.

This is assuming you have spark, and you have fuel.
 
well ok, I did some diagnosing tonight.

first off, I pulled the UIM, yes I definitely smell gas, definitely think I'm getting fuel.

now the spark plugs and wires are original ['99 w/ 70k]. spark plugs have never been pulled out before. They are sparking! but the spark is weaker than I would expect and well... the gap is pretty obnoxious. Other than that, they raise no warning signs. I have 3 new spares on hand, will pick up the rest of the set in the morning and some anti-sieze to put on them.

No wires appeared to be unhooked, so that was all checked again.

I did realize that I forgot to attach that hose [the valve breather thingy] just under the UIM. I would've still expected to see/hear a bit more life out of the engine even with all that unmetered air.

talked with jaged breifly, he asked how much gas was in the car.... ummm, ya, sitting on E. Will be picking up a gas can and making a few trips tomorrow and will put 5 gallons in. And should probably replace the fuel filter while I'm at it.

and Tony, when I say the engine is cranking, I mean that I get the rhuh rhuh rhuh noise as I engage the ignition... but at no point does it seem like the engine is making any contribution [what I meant by turning over].

So till tomorrow, I bet theres still more to the puzzle, but addressing the air metering, replacing the weak spark, and having actual gas in the car should be a good start.
 
Make sure everything is reinstalled. :laugh:

Then do as suggested by Ray.
 
You could try a 2 second shot of starting fluid down inside airbox inlet. Ether will light off even if plug wet fouled and shorting down electrode or very weak spark. Motor running just a few seconds will go a long way to clean plugs off at least where it will operate. DON'T OVERDO THE STARTING FLUID! I watched someone blow 6 rods out of the sides of a V-8 block once, he was liberally using it. I remember telling him he was messing up about 30 seconds before it happened. If motor will not start and at least burn off the ether, maybe 2 seconds worth of running, then you got issues you still need to correct. Don't shoot more in unless first shot is burned already. I have never seen a motor that would not start using that stuff as long as motor electrically and mechanically able to run. That's including engines that hadn't run in YEARS.
 
damn, wish I had seen your post before I added more gas.

well spark plugs are replaced. everything buttoned up and 5 gal of gas added [with a half bottle of techron]. still no starty but the engine does sound like its doing a bit more than before. I'm going to let it sit for a few hours, try again. If it doesnt work then, I'l pull the UIM again and squirt a bit of oil in the cyl's.
 
well added a bit of oil, no change.

I picked up a replacement fuel filter [also may be original, been meaning to get around to it]. not happy with the autozone crap part so it wont be used.

question... how do I drain the fuel line/tank? I have never done that before.
 
Not to argue gentlemen, but I'm a little leery of that "no compression" theory. I've started plenty of really old motors and never had any problem that could be described as that. My view if you need oil to seal just so engine can fire, you're so low on compression anyway (from wear) that you're wasting time with that engine. Oil added to even a new engine will increase compression, that just shows the leakage on even a good motor. Even the best ones leak, look at how dragracers will rebuild a motor that's lost 20 lb. of compression in 3 runs. A normal engine can leak 20-25% leakdown all day long and it will start and run fine, it's just not going to make that last 5 horsepower. Driver will never notice it. That added oil can very easily foul plugs too, when motor cranked that stuff will go everywhere including on plug tips. Not gonna help starting there. Have experimented with all kinds of startup techniques to break in rings better, including DRY rings and cylinders, merely a couple of drops of oil massaged into piston skirt contact areas. When assembled, engines had plenty of compression as checked by turning motor over by hand. Those engines started just as fast as anything else (almost instantly). Now as to water in the gas, anything's possible with today's ethanol mixed fuels. If I were facing this problem, my first requirement would be FRESH fuel. It sure seems that the fuel nowadays loses the aromatic component in it that vaporizes easily quicker than before. That aromatic helps greatly to light off a stone cold motor. Also, a shot of ether will burn even with water there, motor will light for a couple of seconds then die. That's a good indicator that the fuel is possibly not up to snuff, i.e. contains water or no aromatic anymore.
 
I think your mistake was putting the stock TPS sensor on the SVT throttle body. the stock one turns clockwise were as the SVT turns counter clockwise. you may have broken your stock one. also beware of autozone, they have the SVT TPS listed as part# TPS246. the SVT is TPS245. the stock 2.5 is TPS246. check the rotation before buying. hope this helps!
 
well the car is running. it had nothing to do with the gas or the compression.

turns out the 02 cougar dash harness is not compatible with the 99 even though it appears identical.

no I dont buy any actual parts for autozone. I have a pile of TB's so if what I did with the tps was a mistake, well I have plenty of others I can swap with. eitherway it seems to be working ok.

I appreciate the help guys.
 
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