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Best cylinder heads

Bradness

CEG'er
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
330
Location
Hammertown, Canada
I know the issues but would like some opinions regarding the use of oval port 3.0 heads vs. 2.5 split port heads with 3.0 valves & seats. Believe the most common/easiest method is to use the 3.0 oval port heads. Better oil drain back, valves & seats already correctly sized and in place, etc. SVT heads have the advantage of being Extrude Honed. I am not considering the use of early 3.0 heads with the externally driven H2O pump.

Any one flow benched the 2 back to back?
 
Why would anyone contemplate using the POS 2.5L head design? (my anti-2.5L head soap box :p ) Even if you fabricated some large copper external return drains and ran an Accusump they are still inferior to the oval (tumble) port design. Plus you would have to spend money to swap over the valves as well.

Yes someone did back to back flowbench tests. The untouched oval port heads surpassed a fully tricked out split port set in flow velocity and air density. (i.e. the two most important areas) The info should be in the old forums. This is beyond the fact that, by design, the tumble port design is superior in swirl and cylinder filling ability. (hence the afore mentioned results)
 
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Why would anyone contemplate using the POS 2.5L head design? (my anti-2.5L head soap box :p )

Never asked him why, but I do know of a NECO member who did re-use the split port design and he claims they're just as HP/TQ productive as oval ports. And yes, he went to the trouble of removing the old seats and valves and putting in the 3.0 parts, and then had them P&P'd.

What effect (if any) does the IM setup have?
 
The general consensus there is the first setup mentioned. Though both setups are better than the original. But now that the "Head Issue" is back on the table. Does any one know of some one Extrude Honing the 3L heads? Albeit an expensive endeavor, but would it be cost efficient per the expected gains? I'm sure this would only net a few ponies/lb.ft., but how would volumetric efficience be overall on this type of setup? I would imagine that due to the swirl and cylinder filling being great on the Tumble Port design, it could only benefit with the better flow characteristics. Am I wrong to assume this?
 
What effect (if any) does the IM setup have?


This may help...

DemonSVT said:
Why use the split port manifolds instead of the oval port manifolds?



When using the split port manifolds you can generate a tapered neck-down in port size starting at the beginning of the head inlet. This is something that can not be done with the oval port manifolds. Not only that but the oval port manifolds start out with a significant disadvantage in this area as well.


There should be a 2 to 2.5 percent port size reduction per inch based on the flow area of the intended valve size. This creates higher velocity at the back side of the valve and aids in cylinder filling potential.



{All sizes in mm}



So 2 valves of 35mm = 962.3 (x2) = ~1925

However you will only get about 85% flow around the valve so that bring it down to roughly:



1636 {Effective Area}



The maximum head port length is nearly 11”



So the optimum inlet area would start at (1636 + 360-450) or 1996-2086

My setup is roughly 70mm x 33.5mm at the inlet.

However since it is “ovaled” it can’t just be calculated from length & width.



It equates to ½ a 33mm circle + ½ a 34mm circle + the ~36x33 rectangle between them.



427 + 453 + 1188 = 2068



That is a 2.4% taper which is within the optimum range. It’s on the high velocity side actually.



The taper in port size even starts in the LIM. It is not nearly as dramatic but the effects are the same.




Now by comparison the small {stock} oval port inlet is far from ideal and if you use the stock plastic LIM then it is stuck that way.



Stock oval port starting point is only: 60mm x 25mm



Using the equation from above that is an effective area of only: 1366

That is only 83.4% of the flow area of the 35mm valves.

If you factor in the stock non-ported head’s reduction in flow around the valve it’s still only ~90% of the valve flow area. Talk about constricting the 35mm valves!!!

That also means the airflow is slowing down significantly as it travels towards the valves because the port itself is getting larger to accommodate the 35mm valves. That is counter productive.





There is a point of contention for the oval port manifolds. Mainly the UIM. It has greater port volume then the split port manifold and likely a SH SVT UIM.

This would only really benefit a 3L engine as the SVT UIM has enough port volume for even a hot 2.5L

Also maximum extrude honing the split port UIM makes it close if not superior in port volume. This is a big bonus on a 3L engine. The effects will not be very significant on a 2.5L engine because of its smaller CFM requirements. A hot 2.5L will show some benefits in the high rpm range.
 
I really don't want to start this entire discussion again...

Why use the split port manifolds instead of the oval port manifolds?



When using the split port manifolds you can generate a tapered neck-down in port size starting at the beginning of the head inlet. This is something that can not be done with the oval port manifolds. Not only that but the oval port manifolds start out with a significant disadvantage in this area as well.


There should be a 2 to 2.5 percent port size reduction per inch based on the flow area of the intended valve size. This creates higher velocity at the back side of the valve and aids in cylinder filling potential.



{All sizes in mm}



So 2 valves of 35mm = 962.3 (x2) = ~1925

However you will only get about 85% flow around the valve so that bring it down to roughly:



1636 {Effective Area}



The maximum head port length is nearly 11”



So the optimum inlet area would start at (1636 + 360-450) or 1996-2086

My setup is roughly 70mm x 33.5mm at the inlet.

However since it is “ovaled” it can’t just be calculated from length & width.



It equates to ½ a 33mm circle + ½ a 34mm circle + the ~36x33 rectangle between them.



427 + 453 + 1188 = 2068



That is a 2.4% taper which is within the optimum range. It’s on the high velocity side actually.



The taper in port size even starts in the LIM. It is not nearly as dramatic but the effects are the same.




Now by comparison the small {stock} oval port inlet is far from ideal and if you use the stock plastic LIM then it is stuck that way.



Stock oval port starting point is only: 60mm x 25mm



Using the equation from above that is an effective area of only: 1366

That is only 83.4% of the flow area of the 35mm valves.

If you factor in the stock non-ported head’s reduction in flow around the valve it’s still only ~90% of the valve flow area. Talk about constricting the 35mm valves!!!

That also means the airflow is slowing down significantly as it travels towards the valves because the port itself is getting larger to accommodate the 35mm valves. That is counter productive.





There is a point of contention for the oval port manifolds. Mainly the UIM. It has greater port volume then the split port manifold and likely a SH SVT UIM.

This would only really benefit a 3L engine as the SVT UIM has enough port volume for even a hot 2.5L

Also maximum extrude honing the split port UIM makes it close if not superior in port volume. This is a big bonus on a 3L engine. The effects will not be very significant on a 2.5L engine because of its smaller CFM requirements. A hot 2.5L will show some benefits in the high rpm range.

Oval ports are tapered from the UIM down to the head port I don't know how you say there is no taper???
And from what I have read the optimal intake port area should be right about 83% of the valve area... So there are no problems in the match between valve size and port area...

Using your calculations;
2068 mm2 = 3.21 in2 which is just plain HUGE for a 3.0 engine (maybe good for a big block)
1366 mm2 = 2.12 in2

For a 183 cid engine with 6 cylinders and peak torque to be around 6000 rpm you want a 2.07 square inch intake runner area!!!
Bring the peak torque to 6500 you have 2.24 square inches!
Anyone can use some basic formulas here to see it for themselves http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/intake.htm

So if anything the oval ports are far from small they are probably a much better match then anything for these engines...
 
ok

ok

im still confused
i know the 3l heads are the best for the 3l from what ive read
the plastic manifold the 3l engine has looks crappy
what about my svt manifold
how do i make it work
ive been reading alot
and havent found any pictures or anything to show how to make it work
or is it even worth it
 
To use the SVT manifold you have to port the oval heads to split port. Search the old forums you will find lots of pictures of people doing this.
 
We can do it for you unless you want to try it yourself. You have to re-work the intakes to accept the split port manifold. However when you do that you throw the I/E ratio off and it forces you to do a full port on the heads.
 
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