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99S14 Question about refund

B

benkill15

New CEG'er
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
12
Location
Stow, OH
Hello all,

My lady friend grabbed up a 1997 GL 2.0L Zetec with ATX. It has 139,168 miles and recently she took the car in because instrument cluster lights did not work or the tail lights and blower motor stopped at the same time.

http://199.79.180.162/prepos/files/Artemis/Public/Recalls/1999/V/RCMN-99V103-9674.pdf

I found this link which is the Ford letter in detail.

On her receipt and in the letter the part number match up. The part number in the letter and her receipt match up.

What I am curious is about is this that is on the receipt I have this section and the prices. From what I read in the letter it seems that the switch assembly should have been covered and the recall performed. I will type it exactly.

________________________________________

2233 Perform Diagnostic Inspection. Found
Headlamp switch loose. R&R & Replace
Headlamp switch
12 CP 1.80 $140.40

1 F5RZ*11654*H Switch ASY $99.18

________________________________________

After that section on the receipt it says they covered the recall and she was not charged for that.

I do not understand if they charged my friend when they should not have. Am I reading that correctly in the letter? And how would I go about getting a refund if that is possible in the owner refund section?

Thanks for any help that you all can provide. CEG has helped me with my tour and I have read and fixed my issues like P0401, and P1131, and other things about my tour so I didn't need to re-ask questions.
 
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Start with a visit to a Ford dealer service department. Have the service advisor run an OASIS report to check on any open recalls.

If OASIS shows that a recall is still open for that repair and you have a receipt showing that you paid for it, talk with the service manager (not the service advisor) and ask if he can help with a refund. He may send you to the dealer that performed the work to get it corrected.
 
Big Jim said:
Start with a visit to a Ford dealer service department. Have the service advisor run an OASIS report to check on any open recalls.

If OASIS shows that a recall is still open for that repair and you have a receipt showing that you paid for it, talk with the service manager (not the service advisor) and ask if he can help with a refund. He may send you to the dealer that performed the work to get it corrected.
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And if that doesn't work, there is a number on the recall that you should call and ask them about it. I submitted a claim to the dealer when I got the recall letter. 3 months later, I was still getting the run around as to why I had not received a refund. I called the 800 number to enquire and got my check within a week. :cool:
 
So I talked with the dealership that serviced my friend's tour. They said that the switch was not covered because there wasn't any heat damage to it.

The dealership said that the cause of the lights going out was the loose connection on the headlight switch. They specifically stated that there wasn't any heat damage to the switch.

I didn't believe them so I called Ford Customer Service, and they said since there wasn't any heat damage that the cost did transfer to the owner.

Other things was that the service manager I spoke with said that they couldn't just replace it and bill it to Ford because they would have to send the part to Ford itself and without heat damage they wouldn't pay for it.

The service manager also said that he could get the tail lights and dash lights to come on just by wiggling the switch. My immediate thoughts, were, "You're a dumb@ss" but I refrained from letting him know.

No where in 99S14 does it say that tailights and dash lights go out because of "loose" switch which is what is on the receipt.

Am I basically stuck? It seems customer care wasn't extremely helpful in their efforts, but I won't want to fight a losing battle if she was supposed to be charged.
 
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Go to another dealer and ask for an OASIS printout. If 99S14 shows up on OASIS then go further. If 99S14 shows up, obtain a copy of it. That may be harder to do but you should be able to find it.

Read it yourself and determine if it looks like the dealer is BSing you.

If it is clear that they should have made the repair without charging you, file a small calims action.

I think it is very likely that they are BSing you. Heat damage comes from a loose conection. That is the beginning of the failure.

The customer service people do not work for Ford. This is a function that was outsourced. They don't have the ability to determine if you were mistreated. They ask the dealer what happened and just repeat that back to you. They don't have the ability to do anything actually useful.

It is sad when customer service sinks this low.
 
Being as I worked for Ford, you aren't being fed BS about parts needing to be sent back for recall work. However in most electrical recalls the parts should be replaced under the recall especially if the new part is updated.

One more thing to think about. The technician who replaced the part probably gets paid flat rate. The labor time that the recall pays is usually a fraction of the time it actually takes to diagnose and replace the parts. So yes she had to pay for it but she helped the technician get paid for the time it took him to fix the prob instead of getting screwed by Ford by only getting paid a predetermined .2 or .3 of an hour. Just my .02
 
I totally agree with SVTGT350.

I work at ford also. Our technicans are also paid flat rate. Talking to one of the technicians I found out that ford keeps cutting the labor times each year. These times are getting ridiculus.
 
OK, so you are saying that since the tech is paid such a low amount to do the work that should likely be covered, to pay it anyways and feel good for helping the tech?

It is not the consumers problem that Ford is mistreating technicians. If anything, the dealer should enlist the customers to help via complaints to Ford. Not by zinging the consumer whenever possible.
 
stickyjazz said:
OK, so you are saying that since the tech is paid such a low amount to do the work that should likely be covered, to pay it anyways and feel good for helping the tech?
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YES. You are helping the tech pay his bills. Ford dosen't buy the tools for the technicians. I have 6k in tools not including the scanner or the box that holds them. And if the dealer sends in a part that dosen't meet the recall requirements then the dealer dosen't get paid which in turn means the tech dosen't get paid.

So heres a noble idea, if you don't like paying to have your car fixed, pay to go to school to learn how to fix your car, then buy a complete tool set so you can use what you have learned, then when you are done paying tuition and tool charges sit back and look at the 25k-30k and think about what you pay and how often you have to pay to have your car fixed. BIG DIFFERENCE HUH.

Sorry to be such an ass about this topic, but if you were a tech you would feel the same way.
 
SVTGT350 said:
YES. You are helping the tech pay his bills. Ford dosen't buy the tools for the technicians. I have 6k in tools not including the scanner or the box that holds them. And if the dealer sends in a part that dosen't meet the recall requirements then the dealer dosen't get paid which in turn means the tech dosen't get paid.

So heres a noble idea, if you don't like paying to have your car fixed, pay to go to school to learn how to fix your car, then buy a complete tool set so you can use what you have learned, then when you are done paying tuition and tool charges sit back and look at the 25k-30k and think about what you pay and how often you have to pay to have your car fixed. BIG DIFFERENCE HUH.

Sorry to be such an ass about this topic, but if you were a tech you would feel the same way.
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If you have a job to where when you do work and you don't get paid for it, FIND A NEW JOB!!!!

Sorry to be such as ass about this topic, but if you get screwed by the dealership then you would feel the same way.
 
SVTGT350 said:
YES. You are helping the tech pay his bills. Ford dosen't buy the tools for the technicians. I have 6k in tools not including the scanner or the box that holds them. And if the dealer sends in a part that dosen't meet the recall requirements then the dealer dosen't get paid which in turn means the tech dosen't get paid.

So heres a noble idea, if you don't like paying to have your car fixed, pay to go to school to learn how to fix your car, then buy a complete tool set so you can use what you have learned, then when you are done paying tuition and tool charges sit back and look at the 25k-30k and think about what you pay and how often you have to pay to have your car fixed. BIG DIFFERENCE HUH.

Sorry to be such an ass about this topic, but if you were a tech you would feel the same way.
Click to expand...

Been there. Done that.
 
If the headlamp switch didn't show excessive heat (melting) then the recall dosen't apply. You didn't get SCREWED by the dealer you are just CHEAP.

And the labor time crap isn't just a Ford problem, so by your comment of "find a new job" if all the techs went and found new jobs you would be stuck with a broken car, all because you were to CHEAP to actually pay for a repair.
 
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SVTGT350 said:
If the headlamp switch didn't show excessive heat (melting) then the recall dosen't apply. You didn't get SCREWED by the dealer you are just CHEAP.

And the labor time crap isn't just a Ford problem, so by your comment of "find a new job" if all the techs went and found new jobs you would be stuck with a broken car, all because you were to CHEAP to actually pay for a repair.
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We need to see the actual wording of the recall. IIRC there was nothing in the recall that kept the technician from replacing the specified parts unless there was heat damage. I think I do remember that if there was heat damage, more parts may need to be replaced.

The comments about being too cheap to pay for repairs is out of place. Ford screwed up and they issued a recall. The recall may have been coerced by the feds. Ford has an obligation to live up to their commitments. They often don't do a very good job of it.

My recommendation is still to confirm that the recall in question applies to his car as confirmed by OASIS, then study the recall wording. If the dealer (and Ford as represented by the customer assistance center) failed to live up to the obligation, you have reason to hold them to it.

To suggest that he should pay for a repair that is Ford's obligation is out of place and even just plain stupid.
 
First off I apologize for calling anybody cheap.

Second here is the details on 99S14.

Campaign Code: 99S14
Recall Details
On certain vehicles, the terminals at the headlight switch and wiring harness connector may experience heat damage as a result of overheating. This can cause distortion of the terminal and an open circuit in the instrument panel illumination, parking lamp and tail lamp circuits. Correction: Dealers will install a headlamp switch wiring connector containing bronze terminals and inspect and if necessary, replace the headlamp switch.

If the headlamp switch did not display any damage the recall would not cover the replacement of the switch. Without being able to see the old switch it would be hard to make a judgement on whether it should be covered or not.

If the recall was performed at the same time the repair was done I would expect not to have to pay an additional 1.8 hours to replace the headlamp switch being as they have to remove the headlamp switch to replace the connector so replacing the switch at this time would just make sense.

The recall covers the wiring harness connector to the switch, and will only cover the switch if heat damage is evident. No heat damage, no free switch. The cause of the poor connection may not have been heat damage.
 
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Thanks for clearing up the response. It sounds like the switch was worn out, which would not have been covered by the recall.

My first read was that there was a loose connection, and repairing the loose connection was the essence of the recall. If the switch problem was in any way related to the recall, it should have been covered with the recall although the service manager may have needed to call the recall center to explain it and get clearance to bill Ford for it.

I also agree that he should not need to pay for labor that the recall already covered. Accessing the switch when he was already in the area for the recall probably should have been much less. It is certainly worth discussing with the service manager.
 
benkill15 said:
...
Other things was that the service manager I spoke with said that they couldn't just replace it and bill it to Ford because they would have to send the part to Ford itself and without heat damage they wouldn't pay for it.

The service manager also said that he could get the tail lights and dash lights to come on just by wiggling the switch. My immediate thoughts, were, "You're a dumb@ss" but I refrained from letting him know.

No where in 99S14 does it say that tailights and dash lights go out because of "loose" switch which is what is on the receipt.

Am I basically stuck? It seems customer care wasn't extremely helpful in their efforts, but I won't want to fight a losing battle if she was supposed to be charged.
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They don't send the part back! It costs more to in shipping and handling.

If it is loose, why is it loose? Could it be because the heat build up caused the plastic to melt?

You may just have to eat the cost as it will cost you more in time and effort.
 
Yes they do send the parts back. Just about every part replaced under warranty or recall are returned to Ford. Ford then creates a profile for each dealer and maintains total cost of warranty pay out per dealer. Dealers with excessive warranty work are then required to send back every part replaced under warranty so Ford can decide if they are performing bogus warranty claims.
 
"Yes they do send the parts back. Just about every part replaced under warranty or recall are returned to Ford."
I cannot disagree with you as I do not work as a Ford tech but isn't this creating additional cost and expense that Ford cannot afford?

My CEL came on at 20K and 24K miles. Both times, the tech noted that it was a O2 sensor issue (which two, I do not know as it wasn't noted on the invoice). I suspect it wasn't and if I had known at that time, I would have just driven to Advance or Autozone to get it scanned before sending it in to see what the code was. I find it hard to believe that the O2 sensors on a 1.5 year 20 to 24 K mile car would break down.

"Dealers with excessive warranty work are then required to send back every part replaced under warranty so Ford can decide if they are performing bogus warranty claims."
This seems more probable.
 
Unless things have changed in the past two years, dealers are required to retain the parts until the claim is paid and Ford authorizes disposal of the parts. If Ford wants to see the part, the dealer must send it in. If Ford calls for the part and the dealer doesn't produce it, the claim is not paid. If Ford calls for the part and determines that the claim is bogus, the claim is not paid. If Ford calls for the part and determines that it should not have been replaced under warranty, the claim is not paid.

Dealers that statistically are high on warranty are more likely to have the parts called in. Sometimes the parts are called for just so Ford can better understand their problems. My experience is that this is not nearly as common as finding a reason not to honor the claim.
 
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