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New to forum - Timing belt torn

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khaynik

Be Gentle I'm New Here
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
2
hello

I am driving a 1999 contour SE with a 2.0l 4cyl zetec engine with 112,000 miles on the car. I was driving the car and the check engine light came on and i noticed i lost some power getting on the on ramp of the freeway. Regardless, I made it home and turned the car off and came back out about an hour later to take it to auto zone and the car would not start. It turned over but would not start at all.

The error i got from the check engine was P1381, Cam Timing Advance is excessive.

I took the cover off of the timing belt and found that the belt is shredded. When i turned the car over the timing belt did not even move, like it was seized up.

My question is do you think if i have a mechanic fix the timing belt the pistons could have cause damage to the engine from me turning the car over. The second question is do you think I need to change the cam and crank sensors when they change the belt. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks
Ken
 
the Zetec is a non-interference engine.. no damage should occur from turning the engine over without proper timing.
 
khaynik said:
My question is do you think if i have a mechanic fix the timing belt the pistons could have cause damage to the engine from me turning the car over. The second question is do you think I need to change the cam and crank sensors when they change the belt. Ken
Click to expand...

The only engine damage I have ever seen from a broken belt was during overreving.

Cam and crank sensors will not need to be replaced.

However, the idler and tensioner pulleys should definately be replaced.

Replacement of timing belts on VCT engines requires extra knowlege and care, even stealerships have installed them wrong. If you get a similar code after replacement, make them redo it.
 
I'll second that

I'll second that

I shredded my cam belt at 80 mph and did NO damage at all. If you take it to someone to get it done, make certain they are familar with the process of timing and most importantly the setting of the cam belt tension. The will need some cheap tools to set the timing and tension correctly. As others will tell you replace not only the belt, but the idlers and tensioner as well. And while you are at it slap on a new serpentine belt as it has to come off anyways.

Good luck
 
Revised timing belt replacement 98 and on

Revised timing belt replacement 98 and on

I took the FAQ and modified it to better reflect my experience and to deal specifically with a broken or shredded belt. Some of you may have a heart attack about the use of an impact wrench and the lack of properly torquing the crank and cam bolts, but this is a tried and true method.

1. Remove the 2 bolts that hold the coolant tank to the fender, put an old towel over the fender and rotate the coolant tank out of your way.

2 Remove right-hand {timing belt side} engine mount. (Use of support for engine, optional, but a good idea).

4 Use an offset box-end 13MM or 10mm depending on car, to loosen-only the 3 waterpump pulley bolts

5 Remove valve cover including...
a. Remove crankcase breather hose (hose that goes from filter to v.cover)
b. Remove Spark Plugs and Wires, removing the plugs will make the engine much easier to turn when aligning the cams and crank
c. In stages, loosen v.cover bolts. Remove V.Cover.
d. Place rags in the spark Plug Holes

6 Remove Serpentine Belt by:
a. turn the front wheel fully to the right, this will become obvious later.
b. Loosen the wheel lug nuts
c. Jack up and Support right-side of car, use a jack stand, damn cheap insurance
d. Remove the wheel and small lower plastic cover. This will provide access to serpentine belt tensioner, crank pulley, and lower cam belt cover. If old belt to be re-used, mark the direction it went, so as to put it back on the right way.
e. With a 13MM or 1/2 inch wrench, turn the tensioner clockwise.
f. Slide the belt off of the crank pulley and remove.
g. The upper right strut tower has the correct routing of the serpentine belt on a sticker.

8 Remove Waterpump (WP) pulley and serpentine belt Idler Pulley, both easiest to remove from the top.

9 Remove the Crankshaft Pulley. Just rent a large ½ or ¾ inch drive electric impact wrench and an 18mm socket to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt. It saves a ton of grief and you will need it for the intake cam bolt. Remove pulley, us desert dwellers can do that by hand.

10. Remove the bottom plastic timing belt cover, the top plastic and metal Timing Belt metal covers.

11. Remove the old belt, or it remnants, the 2 idler pulleys and the tensioner, throw them all away so that you won’t be tempted to reuse them.

12. Using that nice impact and the correct torx bit, hold the intake cam by the 1 inch hex on the cam with a 1 inch wrench and loosen the intake cam bolt, no need to remove. If you have already installed the alignment tool bar, remove it before this step or you WILL by sorry about your broken reluctor on the cam.

13. For the exhaust cam, use a 1 inch wrench to hold the exhaust cam in place then remove the plug with a torx bit, now use a 12 point socket that fits the ‘reverse torx’ bolt in the VCT recess to loosen the bolt. Now the both cam pulleys should move independent of the cams.

14. Now using the 1" wrench on the hex that is cast into the cam rotate the cams until the "Ford Service Tool 21-162" or a hunk of metal 0.20 Inch thick by 8 inches long and over 1 inch wide slides in the grooves at the other end of the camshafts. The cams are now in the correct position.

15. Behind the exhaust manifold is a 10mm hex bolt that once removed (blindly and using your fingers as eyes) will accept the timing alignment tool. Install the pin and rotate crank pulley until it stops, that IS Top Dead Center TDC. A bit difficult but NO questions about TDC and timing.

16. Install the 2 new idlers (that is if your car has 2 idlers, mine only has one) and the tensioner.

17. Install Belt. Start at Crank, then go to the tensioner (which is loose). Then the cam pulleys and finally the upper idler. The belt should slip on, but it WILL be almost a 2 man job. Just put the belt on squarely, not too much on either side, otherwise it won't "slip" on.

18. Adjust the Tensioner Pulley with the Allan Key and tighten the 10MM bolt. The fork in the tensioner pulley adjuster should straddle the aligment mark on the tensioner base plate, after tightening the bolt, if not try again until you have it. Adjusting the tensioner too tightly WILL cause the cam belt to walk off of the pulleys and shred itself on the front cam belt cover. Not a pretty sight.

19. With the crank rotated against the timing pin you installed earlier, and the timing bar on the cam shafts, prevent the intake cam from turning by holding the hex on the cam with a wrench, firmly tighten the intake cam bolt (wait until later to fully tighten it). Now do the very same thing with the exhaust cam. Now your cams are not only properly aligned with your crankshaft, but the all important cam belt tension is correct as well. If you must rotate the engine 2 times to check the cam timing you will simply frustrate yourself, the exhaust cam will usually never realign, don’t worry its fine.

20. Remove the bar holding the cams in place don’t worry if the exhaust cam moves a little bit, and by all means REMOVE the pin behind the exhaust manifold and install the plug for that hole.

21. Now holding the intake cam with a wrench in its hex, use the impact wrench to fully tighten the intake cam. Now do the same thing for the exhaust cam. Replace the exhaust cam plug and tighten firmly by hand.

22. Start buttoning the engine up now, I would recommend a new valve cover gasket on high mileage cars as it WILL leak after installation. After the cam belt covers are replaced, install the crank pulley and use the impact wrench on the high torque setting to tighten. The rest of the reeassembly is in reverse.
 
fixed

fixed

I took the car to a local garage and he replaced one of the pulleys that was seized up, replaced the timing belt and i had him put a new serpentine belt on for a total of $350.

He intially said that after putting the new timing belt on that the #3 cylinder had low compression and that he though one of the valves was bent. I told him dont worry about that. Put the car back together and it should start and run fine. He did so and its fixed and working fine.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback.

THanks
Ken
 
Rogerm60 said:
The only engine damage I have ever seen from a broken belt was during overreving.

Cam and crank sensors will not need to be replaced.

However, the idler and tensioner pulleys should definately be replaced.

Replacement of timing belts on VCT engines requires extra knowlege and care, even stealerships have installed them wrong. If you get a similar code after replacement, make them redo it.
Click to expand...

I have two bits of information to offer.

First, the timing belt isnt really THAT hard to replace, but it is time consuming. Second, When replacing the timing belt, for the love of god LOOSEN the cam gears, Then slip the belt on, THEN tighten the cam gears THEN tension the belt to the proper tightness. If you dont do it in this pattern, chances are the belt is going to walk off and get shreaded again.

The 2nd bit of information is, go to www.zxtuner.com and buy the Zetec cam timing tool kit, it consists of a brace that goes between the two cams to hold them in place, and a bolt tool that goes in a spot on the motor to lock the Crankshaft in place at TDC, trust me. without it you might have to do the job 5 and 6 times over again. Its a PITA without it.

We did the job without that kit, and my timing ended up being half a degree retarded, which isnt BAD because the VCT can compensate for it, but it causes the motor to not operate as smoothly as it should, kind of hard to describe, but I can physically feel the power band open up as soon as it hits a certain RPM, kinda like secondaries on a Duratec, and I know it shouldnt be like that.
 
wrong process

wrong process

Loosen cam pulleys

Put belt on

Set belt tension

THEN tighten cam pulleys
 
AliasJerk said:
I have two bits of information to offer.

First, the timing belt isnt really THAT hard to replace, but it is time consuming. Second, When replacing the timing belt, for the love of god LOOSEN the cam gears, Then slip the belt on, THEN tighten the cam gears THEN tension the belt to the proper tightness. If you dont do it in this pattern, chances are the belt is going to walk off and get shreaded again.

The 2nd bit of information is, go to www.zxtuner.com and buy the Zetec cam timing tool kit, it consists of a brace that goes between the two cams to hold them in place, and a bolt tool that goes in a spot on the motor to lock the Crankshaft in place at TDC, trust me. without it you might have to do the job 5 and 6 times over again. Its a PITA without it.

We did the job without that kit, and my timing ended up being half a degree retarded, which isnt BAD because the VCT can compensate for it, but it causes the motor to not operate as smoothly as it should, kind of hard to describe, but I can physically feel the power band open up as soon as it hits a certain RPM, kinda like secondaries on a Duratec, and I know it shouldnt be like that.
Click to expand...

I usually see no reason to loosen the cam gears. If the timing was set previously all should be fine. The belt will only walk if the tensioner and idler are damaged. Replace them.

The important thing with VCT is to turn the VCT and cam gear to the correct position, either while installing the belt or while positioning the exhaust cam gear before tightening (if you loosened the gears).

If you simply tighten the exhaust cam gear down with the cams locked, you may well not get the timing right.
 
Yeah thats wot I thought the first time

Yeah thats wot I thought the first time

I thought the same thing, just line it up and go for it. Shredded a belt in record time.

Why did I shred a belt? Because the belt tension was too tight and the belt walked off the passenger side of the cam pulleys and shredded itself on the front engine cover. The belt tension is to be done with the cam pulleys loose, and if you loosen the cams pulleys you must retime. With the proper tools used to set timing you will get very accurate timing and most importantly proper tension on the belt.

And even more importantly you don't shred a cam belt and have to have your car towed 150 miles, and then have to put in all new parts yet again.
 
andreslobo said:
I thought the same thing, just line it up and go for it. Shredded a belt in record time.

Why did I shred a belt? Because the belt tension was too tight and the belt walked off the passenger side of the cam pulleys and shredded itself on the front engine cover. The belt tension is to be done with the cam pulleys loose, and if you loosen the cams pulleys you must retime. With the proper tools used to set timing you will get very accurate timing and most importantly proper tension on the belt.

And even more importantly you don't shred a cam belt and have to have your car towed 150 miles, and then have to put in all new parts yet again.
Click to expand...

But if you set the belt tightness with the cam gears loose, then by thighteing them will make the timing belt even tighter. right?

Every DOHC i worked of has to have the cam gears tight and at the proper spot when the timing belt is tightened.

If a timing belt walks off the grear then something is not in aligment. Usually it's eitehr the belt tensioner, roller or in some cases the waterpump bearing is slighly worn and slowly pushes the belt off to one side.
 
But this is a Ford

But this is a Ford

Yes

Most DOHC units have alignment marks and do not require the loosening of the cam pulleys. And they do have thier own method of setting tension. But this is a ford and it has vct, timing is critical so ford developed this method of setting the timing AND the tension. And good for us ford folks the water pump is NOT in the cam belt loop. Walking off the pulleys is most often helped by cam belt tension that is TOO tight, thus the criticality of setting it correctly

Setting tension with the cam gear loose, allow the tensioner to be set properly

Tightening the cam gears does not change the tension, at all, it doesn't add to or subtract from the average tension. Once you pull the cam alignment plate out, the cams will rotate a bit, (valve spring pressure on the lobes will do this) but the average tension in the belt will NOT change.

If you choose to try to adjust tension with the pulleys tight, you may or may not get the correct tension.

Results will vary
 
Last edited:
andreslobo said:
...If you choose to try to adjust tension with the pulleys tight, you may or may not get the correct tension.

Results will vary
Click to expand...

ROTFL. Andreslobo, why do I get the feeling you are an attorney who works in a big corporation? :laugh:
 
andreslobo said:
Yes

Most DOHC units have alignment marks and do not require the loosening of the cam pulleys. And they do have thier own method of setting tension. But this is a ford and it has vct, timing is critical so ford developed this method of setting the timing AND the tension. And good for us ford folks the water pump is NOT in the cam belt loop. Walking off the pulleys is most often helped by cam belt tension that is TOO tight, thus the criticality of setting it correctly

Setting tension with the cam gear loose, allow the tensioner to be set properly

Tightening the cam gears does not change the tension, at all, it doesn't add to or subtract from the average tension. Once you pull the cam alignment plate out, the cams will rotate a bit, (valve spring pressure on the lobes will do this) but the average tension in the belt will NOT change.

If you choose to try to adjust tension with the pulleys tight, you may or may not get the correct tension.

Results will vary
Click to expand...

Ahh ok, thanks for the info. I'll keep this in mind if I have to work on a 4cylinder. So far all the cont./myst. that I have/had were V6s.
 
Rogerm60 said:
I usually see no reason to loosen the cam gears. If the timing was set previously all should be fine. The belt will only walk if the tensioner and idler are damaged. Replace them.

The important thing with VCT is to turn the VCT and cam gear to the correct position, either while installing the belt or while positioning the exhaust cam gear before tightening (if you loosened the gears).

If you simply tighten the exhaust cam gear down with the cams locked, you may well not get the timing right.
Click to expand...

I spoke to a guy at Gates corp. that specialized in the making of the Ford Zetec timing belt kit, he said to me when they designed the kit, that every time people would call in having belt walking issues, it was because people would not loosen tension on the cam gears. He then told me, this was because if you slipped the belt on with the gears tight it, once you tensioned the belt at the tensioner it wasn't a uniform belt tension, he said half of the belt would be tight, and the other half wouldn't be (speaking 50/50 split right down the middle). Whatever side of the belt would be looser, would allow the belt to walk in that direction, and the thing is, I had that problem. When my belt started to walk, I found that the side of the timing belt closer to the motor was tighter than the side of the belt facing the coolant res. So he was right on the money about that. So I bought another timing belt, reused the idlers and tensioners from the gates kit, and replaced the belt a 2nd time, after 4-5 attempts at timing the motor (and loosening the cam gears mind you), we had gotten the belt on. Ive driven 5000 miles on this belt and its sitting in the same spot it had when it was installed.

Thats why I believe loosening the cam gears make a difference.
 
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