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Originally posted by zgendron:
There is a reason social workers are paid very little, but tax law is a very lucritive business.
No doubt!...social workers are paid to give our tax dollars away whereas tax lawyers are paid to keep tax dollars from being taken away. Sooooo..thank GOD that social workers are paid less! (In reality LSWs have a tough, thankless job - yes, often no thanks from those they try to help).
The original article in this post was amusing (and not altogether inaccurate) but from a practical standpoint I think liberalism (in its most malignant, extreme form anyway) is finished in this country as a significant political force. 3rd straight election in a row it was rejected across the board, even under "best case" senerio for liberals..ie employment, economy, etc still in recovery mode, ongoing unpopular war, etc. It was clear that liberal celebs were a lead weight around the candidates neck, that despite a hard (Kerry) move to the center at the end, the election was not particularly close. I think it is clear that while France, Germany, Canada etc. continue to move farther left..the U.S. is not going to embrace this trend with open arms. The intensity of the shrieks from the left will remain at high pitch but likely to no avail..in the final analysis, we REMAIN (nothing new here) a centrist nation, with perhaps a slight conservative lean. This is were BOTH parties will need to position themselves to win going foreward..a conservative/moderate democrat can win, another Kerry/Gore/Dean/Kennedy clone cannot. A hardline rightwinger is less likely to win than a centrist. This is a good thing and a comforting thought. Of course, Hillary will try HARD to appear to be that "conservative" democrat in the next 4 years..
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
BS Packrat! It's your President that wants the illegals hear to help provide cheap labor for big business and decrease wages at the same time because the market is flooded with people who work for less.
Nope, try again.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Rusty, explain why it's so absurd.
Your saying that the all this time that the Republican party just stands by and is powerless to stop all these terrible things from happening because the Democrats have been running things from the beginning?
Just because they feed you crap and call it caviar doesn't mean the rest of us are going to eat it!
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Who the hell said that? Damn, you sure know how to spin words around. But if we must pull teeth, it was the Democrats who started Social Security. The Democrats take all the credit for starting Social Security because of how 'wonderful' it is. If everything that happens in government is bipartisan (like you're alluding to), then I'm sure you'll say the Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the Iraq war.
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Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
BS Packrat! It's your President that wants the illegals hear to help provide cheap labor for big business and decrease wages at the same time because the market is flooded with people who work for less.
Nope, try again.
Maybe you should pull your head out so you can get a better look around.
Bush revives bid to legalize illegal aliens
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Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by PackRat:
All you do is cover up societies problems with a nice smell, you don't solve them.
You missed a step or two. First they create the problem, then pretend to be the ones who can fix it. In addition, they'll blame a Republican for either creating the problem or making it worse. For example, Social Security.
Re-read your own words then.
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
BS Packrat! It's your President that wants the illegals hear to help provide cheap labor for big business and decrease wages at the same time because the market is flooded with people who work for less.
Nope, try again.
Maybe you should pull your head out so you can get a better look around.
Bush revives bid to legalize illegal aliens
If they're legalized, then they're not illegals. You said the president wants "illegals".
Incidentally, thats something I don't agree with him on. I think all the illegals should be sent back where they came from and wait their turn. I'm sick of the Hispanic community acting like Mexicans somehow have it worse off than others and should be given special consideration.
Last edited by PackRat; 12/07/04 11:28 PM.
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Very weak, Rusty. Even for you.
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Originally posted by Davo:
Very weak, Rusty. Even for you.
It's your argument! I was just pointing out how stupid it sounded. Even for you! 
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Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Wow, we almost got a competent opinion out of you without resorting to that classic E-thug approach that you use so well. Almost...
Originally posted by Packrat:
Since you couldn't leave well enough alone.
Was this a threat? Comeon. I've been looking for you to actually engage in a semi-educated argument for about an hour now. This is exactly what I was looking for. So, not really sure what the threat is all about.
Originally posted by Packrat:
The way liberals treat minorities is racist. Liberals only care about Blacks, Mexicans, etc. when it comes to elections.
You truly believe this, don't you? That's just sad. Many of the "liberals" I know regularly volunteer their time to help others, many are teachers, many donate much more than just their money (in addition to taxes). When it comes to politics, you could use this argument for either side. Really sad that this is your opinion of all liberals. When was the last time you tried to help someone less fortunate?
It's sad because it is the truth.
You're right. Its true that both sides use propagenda during an election to try and get votes. And you're right, it is sad.
Originally posted by Packrat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
I agree that many of the benefits provided by the government do not help people in their situations, but only continue to extend the problem. However, I think you've gone ahead again and painted this broad brush (as you seem to enjoy doing) and grouped all liberals as evil. However, I wouldn't put all the "blame" on liberals for making the poor so dependent on these programs. I have heard very few suggestions from Republicans besides "cut the program."
Sometimes you have to cut the program in order to cure the problem.
Originally posted by packrat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Is the solution to just cut those programs and let those on it sink or swim?
Exactly. It's called tough love. The problem with liberals is they're too wishy washy.
Show me one instance where this type of policy has actually
worked? You cannot just cut these people off. This will immediately lead to an increase in crime. Guess what. It'll cost more to incarsinate that one person than to feed their whole family with food stamps.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Can you imagine the problems we would have then? We do need to devise a new program. Clearly the current program has problems. A program that can be implemented in conjunction with the current programs in place. To cut these programs without offering other solutions is completely asinine.
That's the typical liberal response. Replace the program with another program and then another program and then another program and then another program......rinse repeat.
Hold the phone buddy! This is the response for BOTH sides on ANY policy. When someone isn't working, you replace that program with another program. How about Intelligence. Clearly the current policy isn't working. Maybe we should just cut that program altogether. Guess what. This is what a government does. Both sides work this way. Liberals do it with their programs, and conservatives do it with theirs. Nothing to see here, no valid argument, move along...
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
What efforts are conservatives doing to help people that can't help themselves?
Certainly more than the left. I don't hear the conservatives telling the black community that it's the fault of whitey as the reasons why they don't succeed or telling Mexican immigrants that it's perfectly fine to not learn English.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Clearly there are people out there that can't help themselves!
Very few people actually qualify as this.
Show me some numbers then. Again, I cannot see those in dire straights being able to just pick themselves up and move along. There are MANY times (more often than not, if you've ever known anyone in that position) that you simply cannot help yourself without outside assistance. Now you're going to eliminate this assistance and let them go? And you think liberals are the ones keeping them down? Yeah, this will solve the problems. But hey, at least you get to keep a few more dollars.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Also, as long as there are laws and policies, there will always be loopholes, and people abusing those loophopes.
It didn't help when the left has expanded the American with Disabilities Act to include such disabilities as drug addiction, alcoholism and obesity. You can't complain about loopholes when you turn around and create them.
Certainly doesn't help when people are buying $50,000 cars so they can write them off. Yep, there's another tax deduction that takes money right out of the governments pockets.
Look, I agree that these "disabilities" shouldn't force employers to pay for those problems, but I do believe that they are disabilities. How many alcoholics or drug addicts do you know? That can be pretty dibilitating. I know, another "tough love program" 
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
The part I like the most is how when the wealthy abuse the system, I don't really hear conservatives bitching about all the tax dollars it is costing them. Guess what, it is!
Yeah the whole "tax breaks for the rich". Sell it to hallmark.
No! I'm not talking about those "tax breaks for the rich", I'm talking about the existing tax deductions that the , and the abuse of the wealthy with these deductions. For instance. Do you think concert tickets, sporting events, ect.. should be tax deductable? Comeon! That's just the tip of the iceburg, and you and I BOTH know it. Who takes advantage of tax deductions? Only those that can afford to hire people to work these tax loopholes for their own personal gain. Meanwhile, the poor and middle-class that can't afford to hire these people pay those taxes. However, this gets me into a huge argument about our complex tax laws, which is something completely different.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
But, when the poor abuse social programs they sure are up in arms. Where do you think this country loses more money? Tax loophopes, or social programs? There is a reason social workers are paid very little, but tax law is a very lucritive business.
I'm sure your friends in Hollywood love those loopholes just like everything else.
What do you even mean by this? Is this even an argument?
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
I see a possible answer in education. Our public education system is an absolute disgrass! If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend a book by Jonathan Kozol called "Savage Inequalities." Education is not the only answer, but strengthing our education process is a must! If we have any chance of allowing minorites an opportunity to help themselves, it must begin with education.
The left [censored] the education system up with teachers unions which make it difficult, if not impossible to get rid of half assed or abusive educators.
WOW! You truly are clueless when it comes to public education. No, the problem is not the school unions! The problem is Parents! This is not a political issue either. All parents do this. Teachers hands are absolutely tied when it comes to public schools. What experience do you have in the public school system to see otherwise? I have a bunch of friends that are teachers, making horribly pathetic salaries. Or, maybe you'd like to my friend who teaches in the Bronx. You should hear the stories. No, the problem most certainly is not the unions! Although I do agree that the union protects some teachers that should not be allowed to teach, that certainly is not the root of the problem! God, if you really believe that, you should try teaching for a year. It is ABSOLUTELY a THANKLESS job.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
I won't get into the various programs that have been cut, and how they truly are disgrassful to see them let go, and who is suffering as a result. Hell, I'll even stick with programs that are ONLY affecting children.
That means you got squat to argue with.
So you'd like me to get the programs that are being cut? Ok, give me a little time to organize that info. Not like you've supplied any facts in your arguments yet, but I'll be glad to dig some up.
Originally posted by PackRat:
Originally posted by zgendron:
In closing. You should know that I am absolutely not a democrat and stay very much independent to choose the canidate that I believe will be best for our country. Nor do I vote for someone simply to follow a party line. I, along with the majority of my colleages, simply refuse the sheep mentality that I've seen rampent among the current majority. Think for yourselves!
OMG the irony.
Whatever. Do you think the majority of this country are educated voters? Comeon, who are you trying to kid, me or yourself? Guess what. It doesn't matter which side wins, the majority are sheep. Accept it and move on.
Or, maybe we should start with the Military. Have you ever tried to talk politics wih enlisted men? Its a true joke! They don't know ANY facts, and if you're not supporting the Republican, you're against them. Its funny how black and white they see things. Its really a joke. I appreciate every soldier out there for his job, but seriously, that is a herd. My friend (a Lt. in the Airforce) tells me stories all the time about the sheepish tendencies.
Last edited by zgendron; 12/08/04 01:05 AM.
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