Redline MTL Concerns
Robert (Rawburt) recently took his failed MTX-75 to Terry Haines Motorsports for a rebuild. Robert started a post in the tranny forums, about his situation, here at CEG and many varied opinions were posted as well as many heated discussions over the issue. This is a summary of that thread.
Reason for Concern:
1. LUBE (Redline MTL) IS SUSPENDING DEBRIS AND THIS 'PASTE' IS BLOCKING OFF THE 'OIL FEED" FLATS TO THE BEARING AREAS ââ?¬â?? Terry Haines
2. Seemed Terry felt MTL has the same additives as a hypoid gear oil that is designed with extreme pressure additives, which the MTX75 does NOT need.
3. It was felt that these EP additives, that Terry felt were in MTL, were the root cause of paste build-up.
4. A small experiment was put together to find out if this was a ââ?¬Å?one time, isolated incident. Thanks to a few other members, Terry opened the cases of three different transmissions. Each running different fluid, one of which had been running MTL since it was rebuilt. The results and pics of this experiment can been seen at this point of the threadââ?¬Â¦
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=1048059&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1
5. Terry had some tests run on a sample of MTL and the results were� MTL�s chemical make-up did not match Ford Honey, which is the recommended fluid for the MTX-75. The results can be viewed at this point of the thread�
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=1054874&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&vc=1 To summarize the results though, it was found that MTL had a Sulfur content of 0.5125% and Ford Honey had a sulfur content of 0.3496%. The higher sulfur content in the MTL tends to support the theory that MTL has EP additives in it. Hence the sludge inside the trannys.
Rebuttals against the Concerns:
1. It was agrued that the bearings themselves are not sealed off, away from everything else, and actually in full contact with the fluid at all times. The only way this sort of damage could happen, as described, would be that the sludge would have to form a good enough seal around the bearings. This is very unlikely. It was also stated that if the bearings themselves developed the sludge, then it could not have happened in the four or five months as suggested.
2. Several members stated that they have had no issues with MTL and has even rebuilt their own transmissions and found no sludge build up after using the fluid for a least a year. It was also stated that the EP additives in the MTL actually help with the noise when running a ATB (Auto Torque Biasing) differential, such as a Torsen.
3. To carry on the argument for EP additives�
Originally posted by warmonger:
Simply put, friction is a product of the coefficients of static and dynamic friction multiplied by the Force applied, whether it be gravity or something else; along with a few other factors. Simple math indicates that if the Force applied is 3 times HIGHER than that which the part was designed for would mean that the coefficient of friction doesn't have to be as high for the differential to operate the same way. In fact you could say that it could be three
times less and the product would still be within the design limits that would allow the diff to work.
In the meantime the high pressure additives will protect the gears from the excessive loads. I qualified this by saying "With High torque loads AND an ATB, use something with pressure additives" if you want to reduce the noise.
This won't hurt the differential at all and as long as the transmission shifts correctly, it shouldn't hurt anything else in the transmission either. It is the friction that allows the synchros to work and if the friction is still good enough that it shifts fine....Then how can pressure additives hurt when they will protect the gears BETTER from wear??
(Assuming these are additives that specifically don't harm yellow metals)
4. Many people complained that the experiment was not very fair, since the photos clearly show that the other transmissions were wiped down after disassembly, where as the transmission running MTL was not. Also, the photos showed evidence of tempering on the edge of the some of the gears. This was argued as normal.
5. No one doubted the test results, other than the fact that new oil was tested and not the oil that was drained from the failed transmission. It was also noted that the test results do not prove that the EP additives did or did not cause the sludge.
Preventative Steps Suggested:
1. It was suggested that owners should use either Ford�s approved fluid, part number XT-M5-QS (aka Ford Honey) or Royal Purple Synchromax. Note that the RP has not been tested and there are still members that have not had the same issues with MTL as stated.
To read the full thread grab a chair, a few drinks and check it out here� http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=1044108&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=71#Post1084095
