|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198
CEG\'er
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198 |
Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by svtcarboy:
And I also would be glad to see the Patriot Act go as well... Prove it actually saved that bridge, and that it would not have been saved with the powers in existence prior to it passing.
Both Ascroft and the Patriot Act were attacks on our freedoms which are victories for the terrorists.
Proof that the bridge was saved by the Patriot Act? (I know CBS is a less than trustworthy "news" source, but I approve of this article): CBS story
Unfortunately this particular article does not constitute proof of the value of the Patriot Act in apprehending Faris, as it doesn't discuss at all any of the elements of the investigation that led up to his arrest.
It does, however ,seem to indicate that before he was arrested, Faris had effectively nixed the idea of attacking the bridge because it was not likely to succeed.
Did the Patriot Act factor into Faris' apprehension - no way of telling from that article.
But even assuming it did factor in the arrest ... did it "save the bridge?" It doesn't appear the bridge was in danger because they decided not to attack it before he was arrested.
The article doesn't explain how much time elapsed between the decision to not attack the bridge and Faris' arrest. Had they chosen to attack the bridge, they might have had time to do it before Faris was arrested.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Okay, okay you got me. So it led to the apprehension of a terrorist, but there is no proof that it saved the bridge. Let's get rid of the Patriot Act!! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198 |
Originally posted by Davo:
Okay, okay you got me. So it led to the apprehension of a terrorist, but there is no proof that it saved the bridge. Let's get rid of the Patriot Act!!
???? I thought the article proved nothing about the arrest.
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
Unfortunately this particular article does not constitute proof of the value of the Patriot Act in apprehending Faris, as it doesn't discuss at all any of the elements of the investigation that led up to his arrest.
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
It doesn't appear the bridge was in danger because they decided not to attack it before he was arrested.
... they decided not to attack before he was arrested because it wasn't going to work technically ... there was no attack planned on the bridge.
Last edited by Mysti-ken; 11/12/04 06:23 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by Mysti-ken:
???? I thought the article proved nothing about the arrest.
I'll try to find something that draws pictures and has diagrams about how the Patriot Act helped to apprehend this terrorist. Dick Morris does a great job explaining how the Patriot Act. If I cared more than I do about what you believe or don't believe, I'd dig up his argument. But I don't.
You may not have been able to detect my sarcasm, but my point was even if they 'decided not to attack the bridge', a terrorist was captured. This would not have been possible without the Patriot Act. Even if the bridge wasn't saved, the Patriot Act is a valuable piece of legislation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682 |
Is it just me or does the Patriot Act sound like "hate crime" legistlation squared. Meaning it could be used against people other than those that work for al-qaeda. Possibly racial hate groups. Quote:
`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
`(B) appear to be intended--
`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.
But I did find something quite uplifting in the legistlation too:
Quote:
(6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing.
98.5 Contour SVT
"Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country"
--US President George W Bush
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 198 |
Originally posted by Davo:
You may not have been able to detect my sarcasm, but my point was even if they 'decided not to attack the bridge', a terrorist was captured. This would not have been possible without the Patriot Act. Even if the bridge wasn't saved, the Patriot Act is a valuable piece of legislation.
Your sarcasm wasn't particularly entertaining; on the other hand your witless attempt to prove your point with a link that proved the opposite - that was pretty humorous.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,193 |
This story does not indicate that the information assembled to arrest this terrorist was only gathered because of the expanded powers of the Patriot Act.
I believe we traded a substantial portion of our Constitutional rights for whatever safety is provided by the Patriot Act. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would trade liberty for safety will find themselves with neither."
I wish I could find the links, but many security experts were doubtful the additional powers provided under the Patriot Act would indeed help fight terrorism.
I did not mean the appointment of Ashcroft was a victory for terrorists, but his disregard for people's Constitutional rights is. The only way we'll really beat terrorism is to fight it, but also to not allow it to change the very foundation our country was created on.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
