|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682
Veteran CEG\'er
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682 |
Originally posted by Sandman333:
No, actually, i wasn't going to come back with anything. I just think it is very childish to say that someone who stands up for their morals and values, when based on religious teachings, can be nothing other than a puppet. It's a cop out when you (not you personally, freak) have no defense.
Why would anyone ever need to have a defense to religiously based arguments? Religion is purely personal and subjective. And no one is ever forced to accept a religious teachings as facts.
98.5 Contour SVT
"Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country"
--US President George W Bush
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
True, also completely irrelevant. We are talking about socially accepted values. Stop trying to redirect the issue. Fact: The majority deems homosexual behavior as unacceptable. That may change in the future, but for now that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Fact: You're wrong.
The majority of this nation have litle problem with homosexual behavior and 65% support civil unions for homosexual couples. Already faced with a majority of acceptance, "Homosexual Acceptance" (question posed is whether it's acceptable to engage in same-sex behavior) still increases by an average of 2% every year, constantly whittling away at the percentage of those against it. In a matter of one generation it will be virtually 100% accepted.
Just to put this into perspective -- approximately the same percentage of the population approves of homosexual relationships as inter-racial relationships (Gallup Polls).
With the percentage of acceptance being so close, I sincerely hope that we're not seeing the same people object to one as the other, but it certainly looks that way for a large part (not reaching that conclusion from those here). I have a hard time believing that there's someone out there that approves of homosexual relationships but not inter-racial ones, so roughly the same group of people must object to both.
Quote:
I would wholeheartedly disagree that it can be "observed in almost every animap species on the planet".
Just because you disagree with a fact doesn't make it not true. Just run a search on "Homosexual Observations Animals" and read the countless academic journals regarding not just homosexual activity in animals but homosexual coupling.
Quote:
Further, most abnormalities are cast off as natural failures, as would homosexuality be should the bizzaar circumstance arise in which it became dominate. How would the species continue?
Most are, yes. But homosexuality has a recorded existence in humans for millennia. A blink in terms of natural evolution, yes, but it's certainly not going anywhere. And if by some weird-ass reason homosexuality did suddenly become a majority of the population there would be a natural reason for it. Not every species is supposed to continue. That still doesn't mean it's "against the law of nature". Adjusting to your environment is the law of nature.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
Originally posted by Freakshow:
The problem is these are usually the biggest hypocrites concerning religion because they totally disregard jesus' teachings of tolerance and forgiveness.
See now this is a BIG misconception. Jesus teaches tolerance and forgiveness but not when they violate god's laws, especially such laws that have been CLEARLY stated regarding the acts of homosexuality. When your brother wrongs you, then you forgive him, but if someone breaks god's laws, then they ALWAYS receieved punishment from God throughout the bible except in some merciful instances, but they were still punished non-the-less. You'll also notice that anytime God was lenient with his people when they broke his laws or commandments it was only in cases where they were repentant. No, they didn't just confess, but repentent means they turned BACK from their ways, and stopped doing it.
Lets not take the bible out of context and twist what it says into something that makes homosexuality acceptable to true christians.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,397
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,397 |
And if you believe in the bible and god then you believe your god wil be the one exacting punishment for breaking the commandments not his people on earth. If we left it up to the PEOPLE to exact gods punishment we'd be back in the dark ages with the inquisition going on again.
And I am not twisting the bible to make homosexuality OK in the eyes of religious people who follow it. I'm simply pointing out a part that no one ever talks about when it comes to this isuue. Jesus preached tolerance and love for fellow man; not hate for people who didn't follow the right path.
Formerly known as Sneaku
I MISS MY BABY!!!
'00 Blk CSVT #1087/2150 built 12/23/99
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
Originally posted by Freakshow:
On another note Sandman: you keep talking about "hate the sin not the sinner" I coulda swore that most religions were against hate period? Didn't jesus preach about tolerance and love thy neighbor and do unto others etc etc etc? Forget about the old testament, please show me one quote where jesus ever said "gays are wrong" "don't ever let those gays marry because it's wrong" or anything to that affect.
Christians are urged to "hate what is bad". There's a good hate and a bad hate. Don't hate your neighbor or other human being, but its righteous to hate what is bad. Thats a theme that runs throughout the bible.
Show me one quote where Jesus says "gays are good, men lie with men, be merry". Never. You won't find anything even close to suggesting that, because it's not right.
Jesus death made the Mosaic Law obsolete. But god's principles are clearly conveyed there. Besides that, the command not to lie with men was also given in 1 Timothy, by Paul, AFTER Jesus was on earth.
There's no getting around it, homosexuality is dead wrong from the Bible's viewpoint.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
I aggree, and I'm not saying anyone should hate a dude because he's gay. I think there's alot of people that like to twist what hte bible says though. Afterall, they made that gay biship a biship. That was incredible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718 |
Homosexuality is "natural" in that the behavior has been observed in a number of species in nature.
However, it is NOT "normal" in that the behavior only takes place in up to 10-15% of most populations that have been sampled.
Abberrant behavior? Perhaps. Deviant behavior? Depends on your views of morality and what they are dictated by.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 220
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 220 |
Okay scrap the "homosexuals aren't equal" bit. They have every right that any straight person has. They can get the same jobs, goto the same places, marry a member of the opposite sex. Homosexuals are equal. The gay marriage supporters always seem to cry about how homosexuals aren't equal because they can't marry a member of the opposite sex. No one can. Am i being discriminated against because i want to marry another guy? Of course not. Its a law that everyone must follow, not just homosexuals. That is why the whole discrimination bit doesn't hold up and won't hold up legally.
Joel Falkenberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195 |
Originally posted by Sandman333:
Question, and to no one in particular:
What do gay couples call each other within their relationship? Certainly, it's not Husband and Wife. They don't use those terms (to my knowledge), because they would be silly to use in that type of situation. Which is which? They don't fit. And neither does the term "marriage" for a homosexual relationship.
Partner is the term I use
I have called my partner "wife" in order for people to understand the seriousness of the relationship & I don't think it's silly...we've been together longer than most of the heteros w/ spouses that I work w/(including the ones that were previously married & divorced during that time)...& I'm the youngest there @ 34 years old.
I use the term "girlfriend"...but it sounds like we haven't known each other for that long & doesn't project our commitment IMO. The word "lover" will never come out of my mouth, sounds like it's only sex 
I don't believe I would jump on the gay marriage bandwagon...but I am a supporter. We both have well paying jobs, benefits & wills...I see no need for marriage, at least at this point, for us. There are many others out there that could benefit from this much more though.
And to reply to a previous post about women wanting to to look like men...
I am a fem & so is my girlfriend...if I wanted to be with a man I would be with a man. Not all lesbians are butch, just the obvious ones (so guess what, there's more queers out there than you recognize). But you should see my tool collection (keep your minds out of the gutter  )
1999 Sportage 4x4...don't go there, it was free
....______o_o
.../_l l__\____\
..|--l l__----[]\|/[]
.....................oo
=( )_)----( )_)--)_)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
Originally posted by SVZETEC:
But you should see my tool collection (keep your minds out of the gutter )
|
|
|
|
|
