MTX - 75 TRANNY FLUID. - CEG Archives

Originally posted by my csvt:
another vote for redline

here is an interesting thread about tranny fluid

Yes, Redline is great.

Do a quick search for ATF+3. Some have switched to it from Redline MTL and have noticed an improvement. Given that it costs MUCH less, it could be a good way to go.

I find that Redline made no real difference when the tranny is cold from Ottawa's winter conditions. But being in Cali, you should have no problem.

Originally posted by Phil Rohtla:
Do a quick search for ATF+3. Some have switched to it from Redline MTL and have noticed an improvement. Given that it costs MUCH less, it could be a good way to go.

I find that Redline made no real difference when the tranny is cold from Ottawa's winter conditions. But being in Cali, you should have no problem.

Sure, I will check that out. Thanks.

Originally posted by Phil Rohtla:
Do a quick search for ATF+3. Some have switched to it from Redline MTL and have noticed an improvement. Given that it costs MUCH less, it could be a good way to go.

ATF does not protect near as well as a gear oil. It lacks the shear strength and clinging ability to properly protect & lubricate the transmission.

For reliability ATF+3 or +4 is not a suitable alternative to running a properly spec'd synthetic gear oil.
It can help out with worn or damaged syncro though. You do not want to run a synthetic fluid with any type of syncro damage and the added FM in this particular ATF helps.

I am currently running Pennzoil Syncromesh. It is a synthetic fluid based on GM's Syncromesh specs. I have had excellent results with it so far.
It also was only ~$4 a quart and the local AutoZone.

Originally posted by Phil Rohtla:
Do a quick search for ATF+3. Some have switched to it from Redline MTL and have noticed an improvement. Given that it costs MUCH less, it could be a good way to go.

I find that Redline made no real difference when the tranny is cold from Ottawa's winter conditions. But being in Cali, you should have no problem.

I too went from redline MTL to ATF+3. I never saw felt or heard any improvement with the MTL. And the tranny if anything felt a little smoother with the ATF+3. I looked high and low and couldn't find the Pennzoil synchromesh(including autozone)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I am currently running Pennzoil Syncromesh. It is a synthetic fluid based on GM's Syncromesh specs. I have had excellent results with it so far.
It also was only ~$4 a quart and the local AutoZone.

I'm having problems shifting (a lot of grinding in 1st and 3rd gears) and I was thinking of changing my MTX fluid. I've read posts where you said Redline MTL is very good. However, you mentioned that you are now using Pennzoil Syncromesh. Which one would you recommend? Should I try one first then the other?

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:

I too went from redline MTL to ATF+3. I never saw felt or heard any improvement with the MTL. And the tranny if anything felt a little smoother with the ATF+3. I looked high and low and couldn't find the Pennzoil synchromesh(including autozone)

they can order it, but they should stock it.

advance auto dont stock it but they can order it alos, they did for me, autozone is 25 min away, advance auto is like 3 min away

If you have lots of grinding your syncros are already damaged.

Follow the well posted advice and run ATF+3 or +4 and not any synthetic.

Then start saving for repairs...

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
If you have lots of grinding your syncros are already damaged.

Follow the well posted advice and run ATF+3 or +4 and not any synthetic.

Then start saving for repairs...

What brand ATF+3 would you recommed?

I used ATF+3 for a while and with that fluid it felt like it was sticky in gear. In other words it went into gear fine but pulling it out of gear it seamed to just barely stick in the current gear. So I switched back to mercon and it shifts normally again. Anyway just what I experienced, no other changes.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
If you have lots of grinding your syncros are already damaged.

Follow the well posted advice and run ATF+3 or +4 and not any synthetic.

Demon: I've read before, and I think it was your posts, to use conventional oil instead of synthetic on a worn tranny. Could you explain this a little? Why is it better to not use synthetic?

Originally posted by steve-o:
Demon: I've read before, and I think it was your posts, to use conventional oil instead of synthetic on a worn tranny. Could you explain this a little? Why is it better to not use synthetic?

Synthentic is to "slick" to let the damaged syncros "bite" properly.

Conventional fluid by nature is more viscous. Hence why it has more parasitic drag then a comparable weight synthetic fluid.

The ATF+3 (or +4) already has extra friction modifiers in the fluid.

"Technically" synthetic fluid could still be used if enough FM was added. There just is always that point of what is enough and what is too much...

Demon,

The ratio of mix I was told for synthetic and FM is 1/2 bottle (2 oz IIRC) of FM on top of a full fill of the trans with new synthetic.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
The ratio of mix I was told for synthetic and FM is 1/2 bottle (2 oz IIRC) of FM on top of a full fill of the trans with new synthetic.

That's not an entirely accurate amount though. It all depends on what the main synthetic fluid is.

2 oz of FM was the prefered guesstimate for the "cocktail" using the Mobil 1 ATF.
It was however just what someone felt was best for them and it was figured out on syncros of unknown condition.

It works the same as people who try MTL and love it and people that have tried it and it gave them problems. Good speculation would be the later already had syncro issues.

I try to recommend a product that is already formulated for use in manual transmissions so it has a suitable mix of modifiers in it.

I liked the MTL. Ran that for a year before axle R&R about a year ago.
I've also had very good results with the Pennzoil Syncromesh. I've had that in for about a year now. Picked it up an an AutoZone when I was buying my axles.
Though the success is not surprising, I've used GM's Syncromesh in previous cars with great success.

Wow, there is a lot of information here. Is is possible to have someone break it all down into one reply? First it was Redline, then it was ATF+3, then ATF+4, then there was some synthetic Syncromesh formula. I have 90K on my tranny, doesn't grind at all (as long as I push the clutch in all the way

) and I was planning on doing a drain and refill on Saturday.

Originally posted by 98_HO_Contour:
Wow, there is a lot of information here. Is is possible to have someone break it all down into one reply? First it was Redline, then it was ATF+3, then ATF+4, then there was some synthetic Syncromesh formula. I have 90K on my tranny, doesn't grind at all (as long as I push the clutch in all the way ) and I was planning on doing a drain and refill on Saturday.

Per DemonSVT:

Synth
Redline MTL
Penzoil Syncromesh
Ford Honey (but it's $$$)

Dino - syncro problems already
ATF+3 or ATF+4

ATF will never protect like a gear oil will but if you have issues already you don't want to use synthetic.

Originally posted by SVT Doood:

Originally posted by 98_HO_Contour:
Wow, there is a lot of information here. Is is possible to have someone break it all down into one reply? First it was Redline, then it was ATF+3, then ATF+4, then there was some synthetic Syncromesh formula. I have 90K on my tranny, doesn't grind at all (as long as I push the clutch in all the way ) and I was planning on doing a drain and refill on Saturday.

Per DemonSVT:

Synth
Redline MTL
Penzoil Syncromesh
Ford Honey (but it's $$$)

Dino - syncro problems already
ATF+3 or ATF+4

ATF will never protect like a gear oil will but if you have issues already you don't want to use synthetic.

Some of the guys here were talking about adding friction modifiers, would I have to do any of that if I use Redline or penzoil?

OK, so if I already have synchro problems I DON'T wanna use synthetic like Redline MTL, right?

Originally posted by Savior:
OK, so if I already have synchro problems I DON'T wanna use synthetic like Redline MTL, right?

Originally posted by SVT Doood:

Dino - syncro problems already
ATF+3 or ATF+4

ATF will never protect like a gear oil will but if you have issues already you don't want to use synthetic

Correct

What about Royal Purple's ATF fluid?? Has anyone used that, or heard if its good or not?

The final clarification:

For RedLine MTL do I add friction modifier or not?

I asked Terry Haines this question and he said

Ford Honey (but it's $$$)

Originally posted by infratl:
The final clarification:

For RedLine MTL do I add friction modifier or not?

Originally posted by Savior:
OK, so if I already have synchro problems I DON'T wanna use synthetic like Redline MTL, right?

A fluid IS NOT going to change the physical wear of an existing bad synchro/blocker ... it might change the degree of you feeling the problem, but the problem will still exist. Get the tranny serviced and use synthetic from the start.

Originally posted by infratl:
The final clarification:

For RedLine MTL do I add friction modifier or not?

Redline MTL already has FM in it so you do not have to add it.

Lupe

I have easy access to mobil 1 atf and AC Delco synthetic blend syncromesh, will one of those work good and is there anything I should add (friction modifier). Or should I just go and find redline? I have no tranny problems.

Anybody?

Ford Honey ... I just go with what Terry says

ok, so what is the "official" name for this Ford honey

if you have no tranny problems, i go with the MTL i ahve bene using it for 2 years now with no problems....Ford Honey is good stuff too, but i believe its more expensive than the MTL, atleast around here it is form what im told.

Lupe

I keep hearing "Ford Honey is more expensive" but no one seems to put that into dollar amounts.

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
I keep hearing "Ford Honey is more expensive" but no one seems to put that into dollar amounts.

Last time I heard it was in the $20 a quart range. (~$60 a fill) It also needs the Ford FM added to it as well. (Another $6-8)

I've had great luck with the Syncromesh. (I'm running Pennzoil's synthetic version)

DemonSVT, So should I get 3 qts of Redline MTL or Redline MT90. I live in SE Minnesota

MTL by all means then. It will be the better cold weather fluid of the two. It has a viscosity closer to the original ATF spec.

So no one would suggest using the Royal purple gear oil, or the RP ATF? Or has anyone tried that yet? I have 4 bottles of the gear oil here. Was going to change it this weekend to the RP but from the sounds of things I guess I need to take it back.

Read the other thread about additional choices for MTX fluid. Should be the second page and I state the specs of the Royal Purple Max Gear gear oil. I also state that I am going to be testing it out. I put it in about 4 days ago but haven't driven the car because I am doing the poly rear motor mount at the same time and the mount hasn't cured yet.

I hate to make another "what should I do?" reply, but my situation is a little unique.

I have a grinding going into first gear if not at a complete stop. Seems some other people on the board have the same problem, but it isn't certain if this is normal due to the high stress of that shift or if the first gear synchro is shot. Personally I suspect the synchro, because it only started recently and I have always put it into first before stopping, out of habit.

So demonsvt suggests ATF 3 or 4, because it bites and already has FM in it. But so does Redline MTL, with the added benefit of being good for your gears. So, if the reason for using ATF is it "bites" with its FM, MTL will work fine? And if ATF, 3 or 4? Does it matter?

I just want to delay whatever problem I may have, because finances at the moment aren't going to let me fix it now. And if first gear grind is normal (when not at a stop), I want whatever is best for the tranny. So what should I go with? And should I add friction modifier?

I just replaced my MTX tranny fluid with Redline MTL...like it so far, I cant hear the gears engaging into gear from the outside anymore, as I did with my old fluid...

Originally posted by stadtsoldat:
I hate to make another "what should I do?" reply, but my situation is a little unique.

I have a grinding going into first gear if not at a complete stop. Seems some other people on the board have the same problem, but it isn't certain if this is normal due to the high stress of that shift or if the first gear synchro is shot. Personally I suspect the synchro, because it only started recently and I have always put it into first before stopping, out of habit.

So demonsvt suggests ATF 3 or 4, because it bites and already has FM in it. But so does Redline MTL, with the added benefit of being good for your gears. So, if the reason for using ATF is it "bites" with its FM, MTL will work fine? And if ATF, 3 or 4? Does it matter?

I just want to delay whatever problem I may have, because finances at the moment aren't going to let me fix it now. And if first gear grind is normal (when not at a stop), I want whatever is best for the tranny. So what should I go with? And should I add friction modifier?

Anyone?

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tranny&Number=860329&Forum=All_Forums&Words=150&Match=Username&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=859075&Search=true#Post860329

Study all this and then make up your own mind. There is a long post about all the different fluids that many of us have tried on the bobistheoilguy forum.

Probably use the MTL. It worked pretty good for me on both counts. I had some rough engagement in 3rd gear, not a grind but not as smooth either. That was under the ATF. Then I went to redline and it was gone and has been gone for a two years.

Just a quick note:
That Royal Purple MaxGear is working great!
It has completely quieted down the mechanical noise from the Torsen LSD in hard sharp turns from a stop, and it seems to have hardly affected the shifting. There have been some cold mornings here and it has still shifted fine with no roughness. IT seems maybe a fraction more resistive about shifting on those cold mornings when I first start up to leave, but once up to operating temperature it shifts great and is much quieter to boot.

Update:

We have had a few pretty cold mornings here, below 40 degrees and I noticed that it was harder to get into gear. I started to drive off and it gave a notchy, almost grind going into second gear. After about a block or two of driving the feeling is gone and of course once the car is up to operating temperature it is gone.

So, cold climates beware, don't use MaxGear unless you warm up the car first, or maybe if you cut it with a little bit of friction modifier.
Right now I'll live with it till summer unless it gets colder here. Then in the fall I can change it back out for some new fluid.

Just to add some more feedback to this very helpful thread, I changed to ATF +3 from Redline MTL about 10 days ago and it is noticeably easier to get into gear from a stop. Now, let me qualify this by saying that my MTX is surely nearing a rebuild. It can be extremely difficult to get into gear, moreso in cold weather. Often I have to rock the car by putting it in a higher gear and slowly letting the clutch out in order to find first or reverse.

So for an MTX 75 that has problems, ATF +3 is better than Redline MTL; though that was probably already evident.

When I was running the MTL my trans too was notchy at first when still cold shifting. When the trans got warm it was better. When I swapped motors I put some atf+3 in and it was much better shifting and way smoother. My trans has about 60K on it and it had atf+3 in it when i bought it. My Eo trans with 98K worked fine from what I know and also had atf+3. My guess is if you know how to actually drive stick and use the clutch your tranny might have a better chance at survival even if using atf+3. (I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
My guess is if you know how to actually drive stick and use the clutch your tranny might have a better chance at survival even if using atf+3. (I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

LOL! With all the known problems in these transmissions you claim it is lack of driver skill? Puh-lease

, like countless rubes across the nation driving manual tranny Contiques are only having problems because they can't figure out what the third pedal is for.

EDIT: Maybe if people could figure out how to make right turns there wouldn't be so many bearing failures.

About a week ago I switched over to ATF+3 chrysler spec trans fluid 3 quarts of it including the addition of Ford friction modifier and the shifting as a result is very smooth it used to be a bit difficult to get into third gear but now it is very smooth.

Just adding my 2 cents:

On cold starts and after periods of sitting for a few days, it was darn near impossible to get in to reverse. I had to do the "rock forward in 1st" thing to get in R. Other times on cold mornings, I'd have it in R- only to have it partially pop out and give a nice grind. This was with a ~50,000 mi old cocktail tranny.

I've been running Redline MTL for about 3 weeks, and the offending symptoms are pretty much gone- even on cold morning/evening starts. It didn't seem to make a difference at first, but after 2 or 3 days, I no longer sound like an MTX noob when I back up. Shifts like butter now.

Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
My guess is if you know how to actually drive stick and use the clutch your tranny might have a better chance at survival even if using atf+3. (I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

LOL! With all the known problems in these transmissions you claim it is lack of driver skill? Puh-lease , like countless rubes across the nation driving manual tranny Contiques are only having problems because they can't figure out what the third pedal is for.

EDIT: Maybe if people could figure out how to make right turns there wouldn't be so many bearing failures.

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
(I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

Learn how to read dumbazz. Considering half the people i ride along with CAN'T drive stick I'm not surprised the MTX-75 doesn't last long. If you think the spun bearing issue is a turning issue your even more of a friggin dumbazz. Considering bearings are faliing driving straight turning and with all different amounts of mileage on them....that doesn't make it a turning issue.

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:

Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
My guess is if you know how to actually drive stick and use the clutch your tranny might have a better chance at survival even if using atf+3. (I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

LOL! With all the known problems in these transmissions you claim it is lack of driver skill? Puh-lease , like countless rubes across the nation driving manual tranny Contiques are only having problems because they can't figure out what the third pedal is for.

EDIT: Maybe if people could figure out how to make right turns there wouldn't be so many bearing failures.

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
(I'm not pointing any fingers saying anyone here can't drive stick.)

Learn how to read dumbazz. Considering half the people i ride along with CAN'T drive stick I'm not surprised the MTX-75 doesn't last long. If you think the spun bearing issue is a turning issue your even more of a friggin dumbazz. Considering bearings are faliing driving straight turning and with all different amounts of mileage on them....that doesn't make it a turning issue.

You're kidding, right? He was being sarcastic there, Harvey...