Michael Moore - CEG Archives

I don't hate michael moore, just disagree with his antics. And just because ~49% of people voted against Bush doesn't mean they are in love with moore. And I won't even go into how obviously blind most of these people that do love moore are.

I never said anything with agreeing with using 9/11 in the commercials, I think something pertaining to terrorism but not 9/11 stuff would have been a bit more approriate.

I just don't see how anyone can think that a guy's plight against one other human is a way to honor fallen soldiers. I bet you if you had questioned some of the soldiers before their death, that they would have said they wouldn't want anything to do with moore, especially be on that list. Do you think it's honoring those soldier that may have felt that way?

While I didn't vote for Bush, nor completely agree with Michael Moore, I think that list makes a good statement. That's a lot of soldiers have died for a BS war. Bush was wrong about the WMDs and a lot of people have paid the ultimate price for his lie. However, Moore's intentions for posting that list do bother me. I'm sure Hitler would have loved to use him for propaganda minister.

Yeah they were wrong bout the wmds tho i dont think it so much a BS war. I think anytime a people can be liberated it's good, even if it takes a while, tho i dont think bush's likely motivation was the best for doing it.

Yeah, I too agree they needed to be liberated, but not like this. We needed more international support. And now almost 1,200 American soldiers are dead, 100's more from our few allies and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. My biggest problem with Iraq is that the fighting hasn't stopped, most of our troops have died since Bush declared the end of major combat operations, and there is no clear end in sight. I sure as hell don't want this to result in a draft and having it turn into another Vietnam. But hey, Canada doesn't sound so bad...

I agree. I don't think a draft will occur though. I think majority of americans, even many current war supporters would rather us pull out and let iraq go to crap before a draft is reinstated.

Yeah, I really don't think it will come to that. Not nearly as much as my very left-leaning, somewhat nutty friends. But if it does, there is no way I would go. I couldn't kill another person, and I don't think I should have to die with a rifle in my hands to be a brave American. Nothing we really can do at this point than hope things turn for the better, but that just doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon.

One question, two points and one point w/ a question:

Q. What is this 'truth' we'll hear about in the future?

P. Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) and Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-SC) introduced proposals to restore the draft in 2003. The House voted on that bill, defeating it 402-2.

P&Q. Fatmike, you do realize you can serve YOUR country without killing another human being. Running to Canada, in the event a draft does occur, certainly won't tip the scales in favor of you being a considered a brave American. Would you feel differently if the war were here? On US Soil.

P. Finally, this complete BS about Refusal to Discharge Is an Involuntary Draft is driving me nuts. Before you are activated in the US Armed Services, you sign a ton of paperwork. It clearly states your obligations are not simply or exactly limited to the lenght of time you sign up for. By signing up, you agree to those terms, including extended duty and re-calls(Inactive Reserves). A point MM and others leave out of their dis/mis/non-information.

Mark

Originally posted by JVT:
If that prick is ever on fire, I wouldn't piss on him to put it out.

-J

Watch South Park last night?

Originally posted by 18psi2300:
The 49% of the population that agree with him see it as honoring the names.

i'm sorry, i don't remember seeing this on the ballot anywhere.... either i'm confused, or you are pulling numbers out of your ass. wait.... yes, there it is. it's official. you have in fact pulled these numbers right from your ass.

i'm going to have to get right on top of letting that 49% of the population know that you know exactly what they are thinking.

are you psychic?
if so, you should have your own tv show.

ok... i'm done.

Originally posted by Trapps:

Q. What is this 'truth' we'll hear about in the future?

Maybe something to do with why we don't invade and take over every country that supports terrorists? Why that was only applicable to Iraq rather than Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Philippeans or any other country out there that pumps out terror. The only other country he invaded was actually the correct one, he was just too busy in Iraq to deal with Afghanistan correctly.
How our VP went to the CIA and punked them until he got the "evidence" he was looking for them to get him.
How everything they had Powell spew to the UN was a lie.(If not, where is ANY of it??)
Perhaps why we are in Iraq at all without any real backing, why we are constantly dumping more and more money into a country to simply "liberate" them.

How can you not look back and see how much of our Presidential cabinet helped the evil and sinister Saddam Hussein into control of Iraq. He was also armed by these same jackholes, and somewhere along the line he got out of line and bit the hand that fed him for so long.

Originally posted by Swazo:
How can you not look back and see how much of our Presidential cabinet helped the evil and sinister Saddam Hussein into control of Iraq. He was also armed by these same jackholes, and somewhere along the line he got out of line and bit the hand that fed him for so long.

Singling out the current cabinet is a bit unfair; the US government has a long, long, long history of playing both sides of the fence in most conflicts around the world. It is a fact of foreign policy that your enemy's enemy is your friend.

Agreed. Though Rummy and CO. did have direct dealings with Saddam Hussein and indirect dealings w/ O.B.L. That same idea you speak of has now bit us in the butt big time.

We armed the jihadist in Afghanistan to kill as many Soviets as they could. We weren't initially worried about how well they did, if they attacked tanks on horseback with a sword. Remember the old saying, "Rather be dead than red!" ? Well, we would rather they be dead than red and as long as they resisted and continued to be a thorn in the USSR's side, we were better off. Charlie Wilson caught wind of that, he fell in love with the idea of these modern day cowboy like people fighting for their home on horseback, and started to arm them and train them with help from US SF and CIA (Though Rambo's Soviet butt kicking in Afghanistan didn't really take place, it was cool and duely noted

). Not to totally pick on the Reaganites, Charlie Murphy was a democrat from Texas. Also, Israel and the US pumped money/aide to the Osama Bin Laden and his fellow jihadists through Saudi Arabia so it was more palatable for them to accept. This is just brushing over what all took place, but a good idea of it all.

Same goes for Hussein, we funded and armed him to take out as many Iranians as they could and by whatever means. Many of the sinister and evil things Hussein did, Reagan's admin. backed in one way or another.

I know hind sight is 20/20. But common sense should have played a part in what we did. If it truly was just how things worked out, we should learn from our mistakes. Because if we keep creating and empowering these types of groups, we're slicing our own throats.

Quote:

I couldn't kill another person, and I don't think I should have to die with a rifle in my hands to be a brave American.

Such is the difference between a sniviling idiot, still clinging onto the 'BS war' and 'WMD' debate, vs a brave soldier, willing to die across the globe on foreign soil, so everyone can enjoy freedom and liberty.

Happy Veterans Day.

E1

Share this with someone who's a Michael Moore fan.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....

In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.

That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following.

FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has...liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

Wait, there's more.......................

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13
Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?" Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash Receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags. You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible. I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he is a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.

Nice e-mail you pulled out of yourself.

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:
Nice e-mail you pulled out of yourself.

A fact which does not detract from its credibility.

Nice post Wolfsong.

Mark

what did that long piece of a turd have to do with moore?

that bs is about as misleading as something moore would do, but it seemed more related to partisan bashing than moore bashing.

Quote:

what did that long piece of a turd have to do with moore?

So now statements of fact are turds, BP? I think that's a new low for you. What did it have to do with Moore? How about sheding some light on the facts of history in relation to todays war in Iraq?

Btw, Moore announced today that he's working on F9/11 1/2 (part 2), that'll be ready...(drumroll)...right before the next election! Yea, the propaganda machine is rolling once again.

E1

I could have done better job with Iraq than Bush.

Originally posted by EternalOne:

So now statements of fact are turds, BP? I think that's a new low for you. What did it have to do with Moore? How about sheding some light on the facts of history in relation to todays war in Iraq?

no need to disect all the "facts" posted because the context they're used in only tell one side of the story. ...of course democrats were the only ones complaining about how long the war is taking...

i didn't see one mention of mm or any refute of something he has said or put in his movies in that post. maybe you can add the bits and pieces to make it mm related.

Iâ�?��?�m no fan of Michael Mooreâ�?��?� but your statements lack full context and balance and some are just wrong.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.

You mean 39 Americans, right? How about an honest comparison including insurgents and Iraqi citizens..

Originally posted by wolfsong:
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

Sandman says every male over 17 in Iraq has at least one AK-47 â�?��?? hardly comparable to Detroit.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Japan and Germany were treaty allies â�?��?? Japan declaring war on the U.S. had the same effect as Germany declaring war on the U.S. and vice versa. Between 1939 and Dec 1941 FDR did in fact keep the U.S. out of WWII â�?��?? Pearl Harbor took the choice out of his hands.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

Truman did not start a war. The North Koreans started that war, and in any event, the war in Korea was a United Nations action with armed forces from at least 10 nations participating.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Although the first U.S. â�?��?advisorsâ�?� were in Viet Nam before Kennedy, you are essentially correct..

Originally posted by wolfsong:
Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.

Pretty sure United Nations Security Council Resolutions 1031 (1995) and 1088 (1996) authorized the multi-national force and its use of force.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

After Bush labeled Bin Laden the most wanted criminal in the world, and after leading a U.N. sponsored invasion of Afghanistan to get him, Bin Laden remained at large throughout Bush's term.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has...liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Taliban is crushed, Hussein is in custody, true â�?�¦ but aside from having their governments toppled, Afghanistan and Iraq are far from being liberated.

Originally posted by wolfsong:
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

Youâ�?��?�re not even close to being finished in Iraq â�?��?? make the comparison when everyoneâ�?��?�s on their way home.

As for the Glenn/Metzenbaum exchange, Iâ�?��?�m pretty sure everyone agrees Metzenbaum was an idiot to suggest what he did; and no one questions the love of country and the dedication to duty of the men and women in the militaries that help keep us free.

Originally posted by EternalOne:
Yea, the ineffective propaganda machine is rolling once again.

I edited your statement to make it more correct. By 2008, Old Media's obsolescence will be more apparent. They threw everything they had at GWB in an Alamo-esque last stand, and failed. Now they will descend into impotence, and their propaganda will be irrelevant.

But it will be fun to see who Michael Moore and Old Media attacks in the next four years.

Originally posted by Davo:

Originally posted by EternalOne:
Yea, the ineffective propaganda machine is rolling once again.

I edited your statement to make it more correct. By 2008, Old Media's obsolescence will be more apparent. They threw everything they had at GWB in an Alamo-esque last stand, and failed. Now they will descend into impotence, and their propaganda will be irrelevant.

But it will be fun to see who Michael Moore and Old Media attacks in the next four years.

Why do you consider F9/11 propaganda? *If there was a "Bizzaro M. Moore" that was looking into a liberal's history as our M. Moore did to Dub'ya, I'm sure you'd be all over it. I think that the Bush family ties to the Bin Laden's and Saudi royalty is a valid issue. That Bin Laden's family was flown out of the US after the attacks when everyone else was grounded, even Bush Sr was odd to say the least. Bush Sr's gross misuse of his position is not very honerable IMO.

There are some opinions expressed, but there was also some truth in that film. Did you ever even consider what he was saying had any truth to it, or do you plug your ears and hum until it went away? Have you even seen the film?

I haven't seen the film. Isn't Michael Moore the author of the book "Stupid White Men"? He makes money from controversy and insulting people.

I didn't watch it until after the elections, I would recommend watching it with an open mind and to read up on the topics he brings up.

Originally posted by BP:
what did that long piece of a turd have to do with moore?

Little, as it didn't rely on fabrications, shaky postulates, fancy editing, half-truths or anything else that serves as a staple in a Michael Moore story.

I totally agree with you that FACTS are about as distant from what Michael Moore represents as anything I can think of. While I find his garbage creative and entertaining, that's all I find in most of his works (especially his most recent one).

If he didn't have such a one-sided agenda that was pushed at the cost of reality, perhaps his story would be MUCH more compelling...

Originally posted by BP:
that bs is about as misleading as something moore would do, but it seemed more related to partisan bashing than moore bashing.

It simply offers a different perspective; one that the media certainly hasn't put forth.

Because it's not from the typical liberal mouthpieces, it is equivocated as BS?

Originally posted by Swazo:

Originally posted by Davo:

Originally posted by EternalOne:

Why do you consider F9/11 propaganda? *If there was a "Bizzaro M. Moore" that was looking into a liberal's history as our M. Moore did to Dub'ya, I'm sure you'd be all over it. I think that the Bush family ties to the Bin Laden's and Saudi royalty is a valid issue. That Bin Laden's family was flown out of the US after the attacks when everyone else was grounded, even Bush Sr was odd to say the least. Bush Sr's gross misuse of his position is not very honerable IMO.

The Bush family ties IIRC had been disolved long before 9/11. They were largely once removed connections I think, though it was awile back when I looked at them. Nothing incriminating...just played up by Moore.

You also do know it was noted Bush critic & terrorist czar Richard Clark that APPROVED the flight carrying the Bin Laden relatives..and that Bush was not informed.

Bush Sr. missuse of position was what exactly??

Originally posted by JaTo:

Originally posted by BP:
that bs is about as misleading as something moore would do, but it seemed more related to partisan bashing than moore bashing.

It simply offers a different perspective; one that the media certainly hasn't put forth.

lol @ different perspective. this thread isn't about inequality in the media, it's about mm bashing. that post was just left over propaganda bs which was obviously unobjective and balanced to the right. there's not one example there that evenly matches in context. how ironic that wolfguy's post is michael moore-esque in it's own way.

Originally posted by daenku32:
I could have done better job with Iraq than Bush.

Of course, that's why you're a nobody living in the middle of nowhere, right?

well fear not kids, I just saw on the news that MM is currently working on Farenheit 911.5 (and a 1/2 for those of you that slept through 5th grade math

)
he said he plans to release it just before the 2008 elections.
propaganda you say??

Originally posted by svt4stv:
well fear not kids, I just saw on the news that MM is currently working on Farenheit 911.5 (and a 1/2 for those of you that slept through 5th grade math )
he said he plans to release it just before the 2008 elections.
propaganda you say??

Wow I've never seen a repost within a post before.

Originally posted by EternalOne about 8 posts up from this one:

Btw, Moore announced today that he's working on F9/11 1/2 (part 2), that'll be ready...(drumroll)...right before the next election! Yea, the propaganda machine is rolling once again.

Originally posted by Fat Mike:
Yeah, I really don't think it will come to that. Not nearly as much as my very left-leaning, somewhat nutty friends. But if it does, there is no way I would go. I couldn't kill another person, and I don't think I should have to die with a rifle in my hands to be a brave American. Nothing we really can do at this point than hope things turn for the better, but that just doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon.

You would be surprised what you can do when your life is in danger. The first time I saw tracers go by my head, I didn't want to shoot back. I wanted to stop my truck, get out, chase those ba$tards down on foot, and strangle them to death. It was like, YOU shot at ME? I wanted to make it personal. Call it warrior spirit, call it what you will, but I've never felt anything like it. Unfortunately I had a convoy to escort and protect, so we returned fire as we rolled along and just kept going.

So show us the size of your internet penis and lock this thread.

Originally posted by Davo:
So show us the size of your internet penis and lock this thread.

lmao why? No rules are being broken. And if I showed you the size you'd never be able to look at your own internet penis without utter shame again.

Originally posted by Freakshow:

Originally posted by svt4stv:
well fear not kids, I just saw on the news that MM is currently working on Farenheit 911.5 (and a 1/2 for those of you that slept through 5th grade math )
he said he plans to release it just before the 2008 elections.
propaganda you say??

Wow I've never seen a repost within a post before.

Originally posted by EternalOne about 8 posts up from this one:

Btw, Moore announced today that he's working on F9/11 1/2 (part 2), that'll be ready...(drumroll)...right before the next election! Yea, the propaganda machine is rolling once again.

i have, many times.

aaaghhh! i did a quick scan of the entire thread to be sure and somehow i missed that!

Originally posted by Trapps:
One question, two points and one point w/ a question:

Q. What is this 'truth' we'll hear about in the future?

P. Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) and Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-SC) introduced proposals to restore the draft in 2003. The House voted on that bill, defeating it 402-2.

P&Q. Fatmike, you do realize you can serve YOUR country without killing another human being. Running to Canada, in the event a draft does occur, certainly won't tip the scales in favor of you being a considered a brave American. Would you feel differently if the war were here? On US Soil.

P. Finally, this complete BS about Refusal to Discharge Is an Involuntary Draft is driving me nuts. Before you are activated in the US Armed Services, you sign a ton of paperwork. It clearly states your obligations are not simply or exactly limited to the lenght of time you sign up for. By signing up, you agree to those terms, including extended duty and re-calls(Inactive Reserves). A point MM and others leave out of their dis/mis/non-information.

Mark

True, but what is not being publicized is that ACTIVE DUTY
Army is being allowed to ETS or ask for reassignment- even if that means they would exit a combat zone, while National Guard troops are being involuntarily extended.

To further slap us in the face, there is a provision in the Thrift Savings Plan (automatic voluntary payroll withdrawl to a mutual fund account) that would allow for matching contributions if you are in a critical MOS. Problem is, they never designated any MOS as critical. Currently, they are training every and any unit they can find to fill MP missions. They are extending NG MP soldiers up to and exceeding one year past their ETS dates. Yet this is still not a critical enough MOS to get a 4% matching govt contribution? Talk about rubbing salt in a wound.

This is one serious issue I have with what's going on in Iraq now. Yeah yeah everyone signs the dotted line and there are provisions about when your times ends and possible reserve time etc etc etc. but that in no way makes it right what has happened to many of our guys over there. Some of these NG guys (like sandman) were hung out in Iraq for about 1.5 years; some longer. That's PISSPOOR planning, period. Meanwhile, active duty units roll in and out in 6 month rotations. It's just wrong and should never have gone down that way. They are just now starting to pull forces from here in Korea to fill Iraq slots...this is an option that should've been realized and worked out a long time ago. It seems like we just went into Iraq thinking they'd roll over and die like the first Gulf War. I'd go over there in a heartbeat and fill one of those slots so some guy who's been there for so long can come home, get a much needed break, see his/her family and relax. Too bad they aren't looking for any AF Rambo types right now though but the point is there are plenty of options that have never even been considered that would have been more favorable than hanging out reservists out to dry.

Originally posted by JVT:

Originally posted by daenku32:
I could have done better job with Iraq than Bush.

Of course, that's why you're a nobody living in the middle of nowhere, right?

Yeah. I don't have a big political family to give me everything on a silver platter.

Originally posted by daenku32:

Originally posted by JVT:

Originally posted by daenku32:
I could have done better job with Iraq than Bush.

Of course, that's why you're a nobody living in the middle of nowhere, right?

Yeah. I don't have a big political family to give me everything on a silver platter.

Yeah, just like John Kerry wasn't married to a rich woman...oh wait!

Originally posted by Davo:
So show us the size of your internet penis...

Freakshow...on behalf of CEG...please DON'T show us anything related to your prime member. much appreciated, BP.