|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
Originally posted by CHF_Slapaho:
so lets just apply my religion to my government and deny gay people the right to be as equal as I am b/c they give me the jibblies.
I didn't mean to imply that. Let them have a civil union, but lets leave the definition of marriage alone. Its for a man and a woman.
Also, I don't think comparing this to racism is a valid comparison. Racism is about discriminating against a persons skin color, male or female. This is about reserving the religious ceremony of marraige for a man and woman as it was instituted for, not for those who choose an alternative lifestyle.
But then this opens the debate of whether being gay is a choice or not, which probably is the reason this is such a big deal; it's all opinion built on other supporting opinions, which are built on other supporting opinions to support the supporting opionions. You can show me studies that say they are born gay, but I can show you just as many that say it was a result of their upbringing or is their choice. This whole deal is just about the farthest thing from cut and dry.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810 |
I'd love for you to show me where someone says being gay is a conscious choice.
With the amount of hatred that this country has towards gay people and the way that gay people are negatively stigmatized all over this nation, why in the world would anyone choose to live this way consciously? You are misinformed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,335
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,335 |
Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:
I didn't mean to imply that. Let them have a civil union, but lets leave the definition of marriage alone. Its for a man and a woman.
But, even if we are allowed our 'civil unions' your still going to have the proud parent that announces to their friends/family that their son or daughter is getting married. That parent is happy for their child and is not going to be going around saying, "Im so happy, my daughter is getting unioned!' It sounds like something that would happen at work, only with a little hazing involved. 
The smartest standpoint, and it has been mentioned before, is to allow all couples, gay or straight civil unions. If you want to get married, you can go in front of the church of your choice. I dont care if the couple is issued a marriage license then. Perhaps if the union is performed by a church, then its a marriage, if it is not, then its a union.
In all the 'conversations' about this I have ever been in, not once has the subject of actually forcing religions to accept it and actually perform the marriages, come up. Everyone can keep their religions to themselves, thats between you and God. For the most part, I think everyone here can agree that what one person believes, even if they are of the same faith, it will still differ from what the next person believes.
IMHO, forcing the amendment through, and then using scare tactics is not the way to go. The Utah amendment never even went before the constitutional review board to iron out the flaws before it got voted on. Had it gone, they would have caught serious flaws in its wording. So instead of doing it the way it should have, now its going to cost the a ton of money (which will come from the taxpayers, of course) to fight it because of poor wording. The amendment here had the current attorney general and both of his competitors against it. The Utah Bar Association of Family Law was also against it. When you have lawyers saying a new law is a bad idea that should raise a giant red flag.
· Jon Miconi
· Coming Soon!
· 01 Cougar
· 98 V70R
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,335
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,335 |
Originally posted by CHF_Slapaho:
I'd love for you to show me where someone says being gay is a conscious choice.
With the amount of hatred that this country has towards gay people and the way that gay people are negatively stigmatized all over this nation, why in the world would anyone choose to live this way consciously? You are misinformed.
Its amazing how many people believe it is. One day you just wake up and decide that you want to try the cawk. 
· Jon Miconi
· Coming Soon!
· 01 Cougar
· 98 V70R
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195 |
So if it's a choice...did heteros make the choice also?
1999 Sportage 4x4...don't go there, it was free
....______o_o
.../_l l__\____\
..|--l l__----[]\|/[]
.....................oo
=( )_)----( )_)--)_)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810 |
I am so glad that I'm not the only person who think that statement is utterly retarded.
Man I wish people would start thinking for themselves instead of following the crowd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,195 |
1999 Sportage 4x4...don't go there, it was free
....______o_o
.../_l l__\____\
..|--l l__----[]\|/[]
.....................oo
=( )_)----( )_)--)_)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,096
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,096 |
Originally posted by SVZETEC:
So if it's a choice...did heteros make the choice also?
I believe it has to do with upbringing. Parents dont provide the right guidence regarding these issues and the children simply become "confused".
98 Contour SVT (soon to be reborn)
2000 GMC Envoy... Screw you guys, I like it.
89' Mustang 5.0 (Just bolt on's... for now)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 810 |
Originally posted by Red92784:
Originally posted by SVZETEC:
So if it's a choice...did heteros make the choice also?
I believe it has to do with upbringing. Parents dont provide the right guidence regarding these issues and the children simply become "confused".
So now you've resorted to calling gay people confused?
You bring me facts that state any of your claims to be true and I'll eat my words.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,910
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,910 |
finaly started reading this thread and wanted to comment point a few things out that I feel Originally posted by Fat Mike:
Originally posted by N-terst8:
Before I read all of this... I'm going to put my opinion in.
I am a christian... and by that I believe being homosexual or performing in homosexual acts is wrong. Again this is *MY* belief and I have the right to say this. But then again, I believe in the constitution and I feel putting a ban on this ruins a person's right to "pursue happiness". As a christian, you are supposed to stand up for your beliefs, which I am doing. But I am also saying that I would not go up to someone and say eeeww... your gay! I would keep to myself. Not only that, I believe I am standing up for my beliefs by saying it is wrong... but as a United States citizen I believe you have the right to do what you wish as long as it doesn't ruin the rights of another United States citizen. All I am saying is it is ok to state your beliefs that it is wrong, just as I do. But don't put a ban on people that wish to do the wrong, if they are religous in any way they no the consequences of being homosexual and are willing to accept them.
Steve
See, that's all I ask from the Christian community. Go ahead and believe it's wrong. That's your decision. But don't try to change our laws to reflect your beliefs on everyone else. Thanks for understanding that Steve.
first i agree with this, you shouldn't force your beleifs on other people, and to this the goverment shouldn't be telling people how to live their lives
next I want to suggest this is kinda like how the public felt about aids and sex back in the 80's and 90's, how it was wrong to talk about it
could it just be people need to become comfortable with this idea? that they need to stop fearing what they don't understand?
just food for thought ...
btw, I don't dislike homosexual people but I feel there is something inhearently wrong with the idea, but it isn't up to other or myself to say they are wrong and can't live a normal life, and yes my uncle is gay, and he is family and will be supported no matter how I feel
did anyone note that Virginias law pretty much forces homosexuals to move out of the state?
- 95 Mystique LS - Zetec/5spd
- 99 Contour SeVT Sport - Duratec/5spd
Official NE-CEG Contour/Mustang Family
|
|
|
|
|
