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I'm registered independent. I like to think I'm somewhere in the middle. There are many things that the progressive/liberals do that I'm not in support of, but I side a little more to the left... probably b/c I'm not rich.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by dnewma04:
Ryan, let me ask you some questions. I don't know if you are/were married but for example sake, lets say you are.
1.) Would changing the legal terminology of your marriage to civil union offend you?
2.) Would you cease to use the term "married" when describing your relationship?
3.) Would there be any effect on anyone if some did a ctrl-F in all govt files for the word marriage and replaced with civil union?
4.) What are the ramifications for the straight people if they get their word taken away or expanded?
5.) Will allowing Serge and Antonio describing themselves as "married" in any way shape or form reduce the meaning of you marriage to your wife? Will it make it easier for you to divorce her in your mind? Does it affect the love you feel for her and the sanctity of the act of marriage?
1. Yes, because the religious ceremony that I performed was called "marriage". Because someone wants to twist that to include something it wasnt intended to, I shouldn't have to change what I call it and what it stands for.
2. No. Becasue I am married to a woman, it fits the definition of being "married".
3. Sort of. Legally, I guess they could mean essentially the same thing. But I am "married" to the full extent of its meaning and definition, so I dont' see why it would need to be changed, unless there were civil unions. So I guess whatever they need to do to take care of legal business.
4 & 5. It would greatly offend me to have gays say they are married. I'll tell you why. It's because that kind of lifestyle is disgusting to me. Allowing them to say they are married disrespects what I feel is a very honorable and sacred arrangement. It has been for thousands of years. Call it whatever you want, just dont call it marriage, becuase marriage is between a man and a woman.
If a law does get passed that says gays can be "married", then it will be a sad day. I won't love my wife any less, it won't have an effect on our relationship, but a part of the dignity of saying I'm "married" will be lost.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
I would hope that people on both sides of the argument aren't basing their stances on whether or not they know a gay person. This is an important issue that should be based on more substance than "hey dudes, my friends gay and is nice, so i am for gay marriage".
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,118
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by dnewma04:
Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Originally posted by CHF_Slapaho:
... and then after the gays it's the latinos, and the blacks, and the jews, and the muslims, and where does it end?
One big happy Christian Aryan race in the US. How wonderful.
Hey how did you figure out the Republican's top secret plan for world white-inization?
Comments like that are as ridiculous as saying a democratic president is going to lead us right into socialism and does not help solve anything. The differences between the average democrat and average rebublican are fairly minute. Where is my moderate party at, damnit!
Umm I guess you don't know of my hardcore conservatism and love of sarcastic comments?
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,166
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by DESIGN:
Marriage is not a civil right. It is not a right at all.
BS! As soon as the US GOVERNMENT based laws on marriage, it became a CIVIL RIGHT! You're kidding yourself if you don't see that.
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1948, the California Supreme Court in Perez v. Lippold, 32 Cal.2d 711, held "The right to marry is as fundamental as the right to send one's child to a particular school or the right to have offspring. Indeed, We are dealing here with legislation which involves one of the basic civil rights....[l]egislation infringing such rights must be based upon more than prejudice and must be free from oppressive discrimination to comply with the constitutional requirements of due process and equal protection of the laws."
Loving vs Virginia, 1967
The Court found the institution of marriage, while social in nature, is also a basic civil right and cannot be restricted without very good reason.
- Zack
WANTED: T-Red HEATED Side Mirrors
FOR SALE: 4 14" Alum Alloys and Nearly New Avid H4s Tires w/ Center Caps
2000 T-Red SVT
1995 LX V6 MTX (RIP)
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Man rknee, you missed out on that history lesson about Separation of Church & State huh.
So they disgust you and it's not your beliefs and it's not what your religion wants... so lets just apply my religion to my government and deny gay people the right to be as equal as I am b/c they give me the jibblies. Get a grip.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Quote:
4 & 5. It would greatly offend me to have gays say they are married. I'll tell you why. It's because that kind of lifestyle is disgusting to me. Allowing them to say they are married disrespects what I feel is a very honorable and sacred arrangement. It has been for thousands of years. Call it whatever you want, just dont call it marriage, becuase marriage is between a man and a woman.
You know, 50-100 years ago, most people in this country said exactly the same thing about interracial marriage. And there are undoubtedly many in this country who still feel that way -- that the 'dignity' of their union has been disgraced by the State allowing a black and a white to marry.
But the States declared marriage a Civil Right and told them to suck it up and deal with it because blacks and whites were going to marry whether they liked it or not.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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Originally posted by Andy W.:
LOLI was thinking!
Marriage
Garriage
Larriage
-Andy
Perfect. Problem solved!
05 Legacy GT Turbo 5speed
99 SVT GRN/TAN (sold)
06 Ford Explorer EBv8
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Joined: Sep 2000
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:
1. Yes, because the religious ceremony that I performed was called "marriage". Because someone wants to twist that to include something it wasnt intended to, I shouldn't have to change what I call it and what it stands for.
I think you missed that I specifically mentioned legal definition. In law, there is no difference between a civil marriage and a religious marriage. Chances are, as with most religions, your sacrament of marriage would still be protected to man and woman. To me, if the word is really that important, than we need to call all of them civil unions from a legal perspective. It seems to be something all "those gay people" seem to be okay with.
Quote:
2. No. Becasue I am married to a woman, it fits the definition of being "married".
Good. I wouldn't expect anyone to refer to their marriage as anything else because from a legal standpoint, it was called a civil union.
3. Sort of. Legally, I guess they could mean essentially the same thing. But I am "married" to the full extent of its meaning and definition, so I dont' see why it would need to be changed, unless there were civil unions. So I guess whatever they need to do to take care of legal business.
Couldn't agree more. This argument has to be based strictly on the legal sense, because that is the realm we are discussing. Now if the catholic church or some other religion decided to allow gay marriages, we are then taking on an entirely different, yet related subject.
Quote:
4 & 5. It would greatly offend me to have gays say they are married. I'll tell you why. It's because that kind of lifestyle is disgusting to me. Allowing them to say they are married disrespects what I feel is a very honorable and sacred arrangement. It has been for thousands of years. Call it whatever you want, just dont call it marriage, becuase marriage is between a man and a woman.
Since these vile gays are just looking for equal legal status, it seems that if we just replace marriage with civil union on the legal records, we are all set. The secular groups can legitimately base their definition of marriage on those beliefs, the govt treats them as equals. All that leaves for resolution is personal tolerance issues. Of course, this is the hardest to get past.
Quote:
If a law does get passed that says gays can be "married", then it will be a sad day. I won't love my wife any less, it won't have an effect on our relationship, but a part of the dignity of saying I'm "married" will be lost.
I just can't imagine allowing something like this to affect the dignity of my relationship or in anyway allow it to lessen the significance of my relationship. I bet you won't hear a single person say, "that Ryan, he and his wife sure had a great marriage before those gays started to be treated equally. now, i just don't know that his marriage means much anymore." Dignity is about poise, self-respect, self-worth, and nobility, if gay marriage lessens the dignity of your marriage, that is completely on you.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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WOW!!! I just read ALL that. Im very proud of myself.
The descussion seems to be getting much more intelegent. Its just sad that this thread took about 23 pages to reach an intelegence factor that my brain could comprehend.
Anyway... Verry interesting, carry on.
98 Contour SVT (soon to be reborn)
2000 GMC Envoy... Screw you guys, I like it.
89' Mustang 5.0 (Just bolt on's... for now)
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