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Originally posted by svt4stv:
we are waaay past the point of "herding" them up and bussing them back home. do you know how many people are deported daily?
who wants a bus? im talkin about a super jumbos here. lol
Originally posted by my csvt:
and i even have an idea as to how. any of you guys seen those old war movies where paratroopers run out the back of a huge cargo plane and the parachutes automatically came open? lets do that. lets rig up a c5 galaxy or something, fly them down to southern mexico and push them out of the back of the plane. the chutes will automatically open and they can float back down. getting back to their homes is their problem. and if mexico doesn't like then too bad. we can send fighter escorts.
hell we could even use an antov 225. we're talkin 24/7 nonstop flights. that beats anything greyhound can muster. 
00 black/tan svt, #2052 of 2150, born 2/1/00
formerly known as my csvt
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Tough call; illegal immigration is a HUGE Catch-22...
Getting much tougher on it would probably help; companies or individuals that are caught hiring illegal immigrants would be subject to a 30% increase in state and federal tax rates on the first violation (flat tax with no write-offs allowed). Second violation is forfeiture of held assets to the US government. 3rd offence is criminal charges and jail terms for those that hire illegal immigrants. Something like this would probably violate any number of Constitutional rights, so take it with a grain of salt.
You guys are fighting the wrong battle if you are trying to kill the supply side of this equation; the quantity of cheap labor from Central America is damn-well near endless. Mining the borders and building walls isn't in the realm of reality, either. It's not going to happen unless something absolutely drastic happens between the US and some of it's geographical neighbors.
The demand side is where the battle is; kill the demand and a significant portion of the problem goes away. Punishing the cheap laborer from Central America won't do jack; you need to squeeze the living HELL out of those that actively and knowingly hire illegal immigrants. Here's the catch, though: squeezing the "Demand" side of the equation means MASSIVE amounts of bureaucracy and oversight by the government...
...which is something I'd run screaming from as 9 out of 10 times the US goverment ends up creating bigger messes out of the one's they initially set forth to solve.
This is probably full of holes just like every other solution I've heard, so feel free to chew it up.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
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youre right Jato, but squeezing the demand side just makes the cost of many many things, especially produce, go way up. people b*tch and moan when lettuce hits $3 a head because of bad weather. can you imagine how much it would cost if the farmers lost all of their cheap labor??  there are entire industries in our own nation that thrive/depend on this cheap labor. agriculture, construction, car washes, garment industry, garndeners, housekeepers/nannies, etc... people think gas is expensive, imagine everything else suddenly shooting up in price. 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Construction is not cheap. The only cheap labor there is in constuction is the Labor Ready/general labor type pee-on's and the like. Any field in construction can be and is spendy.
There are hacks out there that give their work away for the most part, but you'll always get what you pay for.
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i agree with you. with the exception of huge million jobs, you go to just about any construction site in so cal and youll find some illegals carrying wood or roofing shingles, pushing wheelbarrows full of dirt, pouring concrete, breaking rocks, or any other type of heavy lifting that most contractors would rather not have their guys get hurt doing. i spent many years in the construction field as a teenager/young adult. ive even gone with to go pick these guys up when we didnt have enough hands on the job. they always kicked ass, no questions asked.
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by blktour:
i know that alot of you all are going to take the words that i spoke and put it under a microscope.. but all im saying is the way you speak of immigrants. im not an immigrant but my parents were and they came here with nothing and now they are american citizens doing thier part. i do think that it is bad to have an immigrant come here and mooch off of us but at the same time i dont think its right to say that immigrants are bad. most of them work for what they want. now a days to be a LEGAL immigrant, it takes years. but back then it was easier?? or am i wrong. im very open to new things and learn about different perspectives and im not here to get anyone pissed at me but the ppl that didnt answer the question just made smart remarks about how to get rid of them.
but my answer is NO!! we shouldnt give them thier licenses because you use your license for everything most of the time dontyou???
this is for illegals anyways.
i say let them come if they are going to do thier part but if not..then yes send them back...
Well....I am a first generation immigrant. My parents and I moved here when I was two years old. My parents had to have a sponser to come here. Then it takes years to become a citizen. I didn't become a US citizen till I was 20, my papers applying for citizenship went in two weeks after my 18th birthday. It was a pain in the a$$. But you know what? It was LEGAL. I don't see where you can go and say that we all got here the same way and we should just sit back and let all the ILLEGALS have essentially a free pass. Bull****. If they want to come to the US they should have to do it LEGALLY like the majority of the immigrants in this country have.
Round'em up and ship'em out. The amount of illegal aliens in this country is rediculous. They are costing the US BILLIONS every year.
Also it is not that much harder to get citizenship now then it was 15-20 years ago. There is just a bigger back log now. (24-36 months IIRC)
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Don't forget that you don't have to have citizenship to enter either. The work visa will let you in, and permit you to work for a number of years, with a much smaller wait time.
The smart man will get that, and work (proving he is capable of supporting himself too) while waiting for citizenship.
I'm not sure about the US but here in Canada (where I am doing this exact thing too) I can apply for Permanent Residency, which is even quicker than Citizenship ... but doesn't give me voting rights (and probably other things too).
If you're interested these are the waiting times too :-
Work Visa = 45 days
Permanent Residency = ~1 year
Citizenship = ~2-3 years
Now I could have come over here and stayed illegally while apply for citizenship ... but I chose the LEGAL router of Work Visa to get me in, and I am now waiting for Permanent Residency (after 3 years making sure I REALLY DO want to stay).
It might be a different country, but the principle is the same. If you can't do it 'RIGHT' don't do it at all. By not doing it 'RIGHT' we end up with the previously mentioned underground economy. I've seen many expose's on this within Europe on TV, and it's pretty harsh. The guys working get terrible pay, usually bad conditions, and nothing is guaranteed. The 'organizers' of these pick-me-up-to-work outfits are usually hardened criminals too, which can lead to all manner of things ... especially large debts to bad loan sharks.... at least according to TV (TV doesn't lie?!?!?!).
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The solution is not just demand or supply, but a combination of both. Build a barrier so that it becomes easier to patrol the border. Emplace listening devices analagous to the SOSUS nets in the Atlantic, so again, it becomes easier to patrol. When we catch them, deport them to the furthest southern stretch of Mexico, so it becomes difficult and expensive for them to return. Sanction employers who hire illegals, and perhaps give incentives to those who hire legal foreign workers. Then start charging a small toll to enter/exit for these workers, in order to help pay for all of this.
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There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
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I'd like to take a hard line against illegal immigration, but since we've let it occur for so long, a big chunk of our economy now depends on illegal labor. Therefore, why not introduce a temporary worker's card? Maybe even something you can obtain at the border for a daily or weekly job? This would be limited to Mexico, and would at least give the US an idea of who's entering and leaving. Then ramp up patrol and deport those who are still not complying.
Giving illegals driver's licenses is a bad idea due because it would put them on equal footing in a lot of ways with legal citizens, not to mention create confusion regarding services and whatnot.
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Originally posted by svt4stv:
youre right Jato, but squeezing the demand side just makes the cost of many many things, especially produce, go way up. people b*tch and moan when lettuce hits $3 a head because of bad weather. can you imagine how much it would cost if the farmers lost all of their cheap labor?? there are entire industries in our own nation that thrive/depend on this cheap labor. agriculture, construction, car washes, garment industry, garndeners, housekeepers/nannies, etc...
people think gas is expensive, imagine everything else suddenly shooting up in price.
I totally agree with this; few people realize the degree of which dirt-cheap illegal immigrant labor has continued to prop up lower prices across numerous segments of the US economy. The fact is that many immigrants fulfill roles and jobs that many natural-born US citizens feel is too low-paying for them. Having the US government effectively cracking down on illegal immigrants and companies/individuals that hire them to a draconian degree would birth something of an artificial labor shortage in some segments of the US economy, if you ask me. I wouldn't say that the sky would be falling, but I do believe it would be felt in terms of higher prices for certain goods and services, which would get folks like you and I screaming at buying tomatoes at $8/lb. and lawn service/landscape prices doubling or even tripling.
Having said all of that, the only other solution is to create sustainable 1st-World growth economies in Mexico and the rest of Central America, which would compel immigrants to stay home.
Knowing first-hand the corruption and mentalities of the bulk of businesses across the border, as well as the current education level of the native populations within those countries AND the way most Central American governments conduct and manage their civic and social agendas, this is probably akin to asking for a virgin in a whorehouse. At least I think it is and will continue to be during my lifetime.
Don't get me wrong; I greatly admire some of the countries in Central America in that some have made GREAT social and economic gains in the past 20-30 years, but each and every one still has a long way to go before rampant corruption in business and government is stomped out and social/educational services come anywhere NEAR close to what the US offers.
I think that the only viable solution will be an ongoing mix of the two; the US clamps down HARD on illegal immigration in addition to Central American countries making political and economic gains of the likes that make their citizens WANT to stay within their borders.
This is something that will take decades to stabilize and it will always be an ongoing process; economies that rise can certainly fall and those that do will have their citizens looking for "greener pastures" outside of their native land.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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