There seems to be a bias against Goodyear and Cooper, the only American owned/made tires. Instead, everyone seems to be buying that Jap crap. What gives?

Dunlop is also owned by Goodyear, IIRC.

TB

Sorry, but I think Dunlop is owned by Sumitomo in Japan

It seems you are the one with a bias against Japanese originated tire designs. Why?

I'll yte anyway. I buy what performs for me regardless of who makes it. It is a free market I live in afterall. I have yet to be impressed with any Cooper or Goodyear performance car tire, which is mostly the type I buy. My wife's F-150 came with Goodyear AT/S tires that I didn't think were too bad, but when I replace them this fall I don't think they will be on my list as there are better for the same amount of money. It is that simple. If Goodyear starts making a tire competitive in the market I am buying, I will consider and recommend them.

Aaron

Peep this:

http://www.dunloptire.com/history.html

and from that page:

TB

I have Goodboots on all my cars except the Contour as they don't make a Z rated tire in the 205/55/16 size anymore. So for the SVT I went with the KDW's. Goodyear seems to phase out standard issue tires so that when you want to replace what came on your car, you can't. My Ranger GT came with Eagle GT tires. Since I get about 80K miles per set it takes almost four years to wear them out. By the time I needed replacements I couldn't get them in my size and had to settle for another size. Finally they quit making the GT in any size and now I'm using GTII's which aren't nearly as good. So, I like Goodyears. I just wish they wouldn't leave me hanging when I need a particular size. And at least the KDW's are made in the good old U.S..

Karl

What about the european companies? Pirelli, Continental, Michelin??

I didn't know BfGoodrich was a japanese company

FWIW, evo tested a whole bunch of tires in last months issue and a Goodyear finished 1st

I loved the Eagle GS-Cs that came stock on my car, but Goodyear doesn't make them in 205/55R16 any more. Their loss, not mine, because the other companies are willing to sell me tires.

FWIW, Firestone was originally an American company, and there are many Firestone plants in the US. Of course they are now owned by Bridgestone (Japanese)

I have Ultrex....anyone ever heard of Ultrex??? Neither have I!! I want some Perellis...do they come on 205/60 15? :p

I have YKS, nice cheap Korean tires,,,gotta keep them till i get bigger wheels, then see how much rubber i can burn with the e-brake on b4 i mount the new wheels....there is a cooper plant here where i live, used to be a firestone plant too
if u want cheap tires here, u can have some1 who works for one of those companies get u a discount....both have had seperation problems though(which i think can be solved by proper inflation and correct speeds)

Interesting...these tire companies are all linked one way or another...Quotes from tire news:

It would also give Goodyear a higher profile in Europe, where Sumitomo owns Dunlop and markets under the famous brand name.

But what is real interesting:

Goodyear has announced it is taking a 10% stake in Sumitomo Rubber Industries.

And even more interesting:

The two companies are already working closely together. Sumitomo produces tyres under the Goodyear brand name in Japan while Goodyear makes tyres for Sumitomo's operations in the United States.

So who the heck knows where it comes from.

Origins are weird...When I bought my replacement SVT rim for my E1, sure enough it has the Ford packaging, number etc..but has a "Made in China" in small letters....So much for buying American..heheh

I think its so cool that my moms BMW says "Made in Germany" everywhere, and I replaced the bulb in my clock on my Mystique, and I look at it, and it says "made in Germany" on the clock Im easily amused...oh well :p

Isn't BFGoodrich owned by Michelin?

Yes, according to this link, that happened in 1990

http://www.michelin.com/corporate/en/histoire/histoire1981.jsp

TB

Michelin also owns Uniroyal. Uniroyal and BF Goodrich merged long before Michelin bought them.

Also General is owned by Continental.

The big domestic tire makers used to be Firestone (now owned by Bridgestone), BF Goodrich (now owned by Michelin), Uniroyal (now owned by Michelin), General (now owned by Continental) and Goodyear.

I've lost track of some of the lesser know American brands but here are some of them: Armstrong (now owned by Pirelli), Kelley Springfield (always or for more years than I can remember, owned by Goodyear), Dayton (owned by Firestone), Cooper, and Fisk. At the moment I can't remember the name of the company that makes Futura (Pep Boys house brand).

I had two sets of Cooper tires in the past (not on my Mystique though) and I hated both of them.

Incredible grip on dry pavement, very good in the rain the first year. The next summer, whenever I turned 90-degrees in the rain in city driving,(not at WOT, mind you) I experienced 4-wheel drift - not what I want during commuting to work...

Never *ever* Cooper tires again...

I should clarify my position.
I am not against foreign made stuff, just pro-American made. Yes, the lines are getting more blurred, but I think part of that is the consumer's fault. Goodyear apparently owns Dunlop, but most Godyears are American made while most Dunlops are Japanese made.
All I seem to read here is Kumho, Nitto, Sumitomo, Yokohama, etc.! I would rather trust my life riding on Goodyears rather than tires from these smaller and probably less technologically advanced companies. Many of you guys seem to be buying the Kumhos, etc., based on price rather than long term value and quality.
Michelin does make a very fine tire, and I would consider purchasing that brand.
However, I guess, my point is that we should be more concerned about patronizing our own industries rather than the foriegn competition. We are getting bombarded with foreign made products, but our American made products are essentially banned from sale in countries like Japan.

DanB,

There will always be people who buy based solely on price.

However, looking at the 24 tires I have at my house right now (yes three cars, two sets each), I have 20 Japanese made tires and 4 made in USA. The Michelins were made in the USA, the 8 Firestone Firehawk SZ 50 EP's were made in Japan, as were the 12 Dunlop SP5000's.

The sad part is, why aren't the best passenger car tires in the world (as far as performance goes) made in the USA.

Yes, some have made their choice based on price. Others have chosen the best of class, and it is not a Goodyear.

I look at the ratings at tirerack with respect to handling and performance, and I've yet to see a Goodyear listed as #1.

TB

yeah, I made the mistake of buying Cooper tires once on my escort. Big mistake! Those were horrible. On my SVT I have been through 2 sets of tires and they've both been Sumitomo HTRZ II's and I love them. When I find an American tire that performs as well as these I'll consider them, til then I guess I'll stick with my 'jap crap.' :rolleyes:

-neal

Java - you based your opinions on Tire Rack propaganda? Their intent is to push the tires they get the most profit and sales incentives. Its no surprise to me who is picked as best!
Also, why do many of the world's supercars, like the Corvette come with Goodyears?

In the broader perspective, I am always interested in buying the best product at the cheapest price. I couldn't care less whether it is made in the United States, Japan, Germany, Korea, or even Mozambique, for all I care.

I own an American car because it had the right mix of features that I wanted at the time and the price was right at the time.

The tires are BFG's (owned by Michelin, a French company) because they had the mix of features that I wanted at the time and the price was right at the time.

My microwave oven is made by Sharp (probably made in Korea (?), if I had to guess) because it had the mix of features that I wanted at the time and the price was right at the time.

It's a free market, and I get rather testy when someone intimates that I am somehow less-than-patriotic if I don't buy an American-made widget, even if I consider it an inferior widget at an inflated price, when compared to a widget made somewhere else.

I don't buy an American widget simply because it is an American widget, any more than I buy a foreign-made widget simply because it is a foreign-made widget.

That having been said, I am very happy with both my summer tires (BFG KDW's) and my winter tires (BFG Winter Slaloms).

I don't advocate buying inferior products. I also don't believe most American products fall into that category. If you are not concerned about buying domestically made made products, then most of us will be flipping hamburgers and will not even be able to afford foreign made products.
America is a materialistic nation built upon industrial and manufacturing might and technology. If we loose this, we loose high paying jobs. Saratoga, where do you work? I'll make sure that I don't patronize your products and buy the foreign competition instead.

America - home of the F-15, Trident submarine and the indesctuctable M-1 tank. Maybe we should have bought the foreign stuff and saved the taxpayers a bundle of money! Ooops! How many less taxpayers we would have then?

This has gotten away from tires & wheels. If you would like to move it to the Off-Topic forum, I'd be happy to continue this thread there.

Please do!

I'm just curious. Does Goodyear make the same tire the Vette uses in a Contour friendly size?

I read the reviews by the people who purchase the tires as well as the reviews of the testers at Tire Rack.

Sure they are motivated by selling tires, however, they have a significant reputation to maintain as being tire experts. If they were pushing sub standard tires, do you think they would enjoy their position in the marketplace?

Globalization is a fact of life. We cannot close the doors to the rest of the world.

America seems to be the land of the mass produced item in many cases. Yes we probably make the best weapons and computer gear, but when it comes to many other items, we have sacrificed quality for quantity.

I think the most anti-American thing to do would be to buy sub-standard American products (not saying Goodyear makes sub-standard products) simply for the sake of buying American. America was founded on individual freedoms and rewarding achievement.

I do that everyday when I choose to buy the product that meets my needs at a price I can afford. If an American made that product great, if someone else makes it, then I guess the American manufacturer needs to try harder next time to earn my business.

That, my friend, is the way the world is, survival of the fittest.

I love America, but I don't think we are as fit as we can be.

TB
Practicing tough love.

I can tell you from personal experience that the Goodyear EMT's that come OEM on the C5 Corvette are crap. They're heavy, lack grip and their tread life is about half of similar (non runflat, though) BFG's, Bridgestones or Michelins.

The Eagle F1's seem to be a good tire (the only one I've heard praised in ages, as a matter of fact), as I've heard nothing but praise about them from Z06 owners.

As far a propaganda is concerned, Tire Rack does a pretty decent job of reviewing tires, given that most of their reviews mirror word on the street or personal experiences...

That is your downfall. There can be only one best product, all others are inferior in some way. If any of the inferior products are still 'good enough' for you, fine. The defintion says something about quality, value, and estimation, not where the profits go or where it was made. What counts is the end result, whole product and how it performs.

In regards to what tire comes on any given vehicle from the factory, there are many economic difference between what you & I buy at the local tire store vs. what an OEM buys. OEM's buy millions oftires every year. Their prices are different. Also, the politics usually mean a single tire MFR for a whole brand. I have never heard of any single company making the best product across its product line, like the best tire line for one's 4x4 pickup is not the same company that makes the best passenger tire or the best all out performance tire. Yet when a company buys a couple hundered thousand passenger car tires for a reasonable price, they also get the inferior sports car tire at a similar price because it would pay a whole lot more to another company because the volume is lower.

Your last line I quoted has already been disproved. You are partially right that if we all start buying forgien products because what we currently produce costs more, then we must learn new skills. I assure you that we won't be flipping burgers as another country could do that cheaper as well. What America has proved in the past and hopfully will in the future is that its business and industry is based on innovation and is dynamic. 40 years ago, did anyone think we would all have computers to almost instantly communicate accross the world? Many US companies lead the technology and made a lot of money doing it. Once other companies figured out ways to do things better/faster/cheaper, the original company must add value to the product in the eyes of the consumer. So, either they keep innovating or the company dies. If it dies and 10,000 people get laid off and have to find new jobs, is that bad? No, but they must learn new hopefully more valuable skills in order to raise his own standard of living.

By your reasoning, the value of the US dollar would always go down. Inflation may cause it to go down over time, but the cost of any particular good or service per dollar has not gone down. The value of the USD vs other currency has gone up over time.

I like these two quotes, BTW.
"I don't buy an American widget simply because it is an American widget, any more than I buy a foreign-made widget simply because it is a foreign-made widget."
"If an American made that product great, if someone else makes it, then I guess the American manufacturer needs to try harder next time to earn my business."

The views are unpopular with American public because people have to continually work harder for their money, instead of sluffing off doing the same thing for the 30-40 years they call a carrer.

I wish I were at work now as the site was temporarily down while I wrote some additional information.

I went to the tirerack propeganda site and looked at Max Performance tires.

The bottom line was Goodyear doesn't bother to make one that fits the Contour, unless you go to Bling Bling 18" wheels, or if you try to stuff a 235MM wide tire under the wheel arches.

So the bottom line is, even if Goodyear did make the best tire, they don't bother making one for the Contour.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to see how the Goodyears rank against something like the S03 Pole Position.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp

And check out the following areas for each tire:


Surveys/Reviews/Specs/Tests

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+S-03+Pole+Position

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+Supercar

and http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1

TB

What do you mean Goodyear does not make a tire for the Contour?
I am driving on one - the Eagle HP P205/60R-15!

I qualified my statement by saying max performance.

The "best" tire (performance wise) that Goodyear makes doesn't fit the Contour.

I want the max peformance tire I can buy, but Goodyear chooses not to make one.

It is not fair to compare a touring tire with a Maximum Performance summer tire, is it?

BTW, did you even bother to read what I said, or look at the tires I linked to?

What IS a good tire? I want something that has GOOD grip (meaning I dont chirp the tires on a 20-mph 90 degree curve going into the subdivision, as I do on these WONDERFUL (read: CRAPPY) Ultrex tires) But I want to have good wet/dry grip, and they MUST be good in snow. So far, I have looked at Michelin somethings ($560 for all 4) Continental, Goodyear, Perelli, basically, it HAS to be a name-brand tire, with a good balance of performance/comfort. I know my moms BMW has Continental, and its has a good balance, but what would be good on my Mystique?

Moonlight, the Dunlop SP Sport A2 has the best feedback and is pretty cheap. I think $55ea from Tirerack in 205/60R15.

I've owned a set of Eagle HP's in the past and found that while they provided fairly good grip, they were also very loud.

On the ZX2 we have a set of GS-C's. They suck. On dry pavement the car squirms left and right with torque steer, it drifts through corners at only moderate speed and they transmit tons of road noise.

For the Contour, we ride on Kumho tyres for the winter (732 touring) and find them to be excellent. Very little noise, excellent grip, good fuel economy. In the summer we ride on BFG Comp T/A's and they are quite simply the best tyre we've ever driven on. I've never even heard a chirp from these in the corners, no matter how hard I push. These tyres are simply the best!

When Goodyear makes something that compares to the T/A IMO, I'll buy a set. But they'll also have to be priced the same. Given the poor performance of the ZX2's tyres, I don't see much to look forward to.

On a side note, I had to replace by rear winter tyres on the Contour soon after buying it. Since the 732's weren't available locally I bought a set of Goodyears (can't recall model). Since then, I've noticed the rear end of the 'tour likes to slide around a lot more. It did not have this problem with the original Kumho's.

All tires have trade-offs, i.e., better grip usually means higher wear/less life.
I've got about 40K on my Contour's Goodyear Eagle HPs (which are performance, NOT touring tires); they grip well IMHO, and have been a very good value overall. I remember several years back when my brother had Mickey Thompson's on his hot rodded Mustang. The tires gave super grip compared to the stock type tires, but they only lasted about 8K miles.

I also have a ZX2 that came from the factory with stock Goodyear Eagle RSAs. I only have about 15K on this car, but haven't driven the car to the limit to test the tires. Otherwise they seem good to me.

...all else being equal which it is not. However, R&D has figured out ways increase grip and make tires last longer. Take the OEM G-Force on SVT's. Most people have said it has some very high performance limits, yet people are getting 25-35k miles out of them. An older design tire with similar performance would last 10-15k miles under the same conditions, like the yok AVS intermediate, another tire I really liked when I ahd them. The compounds and tread designs have improved over time and will continue to. Companies that stay stagnant will not last and should not be subsidized to do so. Whether the two competitors are based in the US or not, the better company prevails.

It is all relative. If you are used to average touring tires that get 40k miles, check out some new tires that equal or better performance and last twice as long. Or, you may continue to buy the same tire for the next 10 years. But what if you tried some tires to one that had more grip, better steering response, and lasted longer all for the same price? Would you really want the old set back?

Yeah, I'm sure Kumho has better technology than Goodyear!

Ugh, someone used the "K" word... I hate the Kumho 712's in 235/40/17 on my car... The worst part is they're lasting FOR EVER even though I burn them off every chance I get. My Firestone Winterfires have better straight line traction than those bricks do.

As for foreign vs. domestic tires, it's a world economy to me when Yokohoma can put out a tire for less than half the price of a comparable Goodyear.

They seem to right now. They make the ultra popular Ectsa V700 and Victoracer V700 tires for example. The popular one that Brad has everyone knows isn't the best performance tire, but it's not bad, especially for its price. At least Brad said they last a long while.