Re: Subframe connectors GB in full effizzect!
#1152722 - 01/23/06 05:37 PM
Originally posted by svt4stv:
Originally posted by 99 red SVT: Just to clarify: So is the idea to have all four wheels hanging freely off the ground when the subframe connectors are welded on or not?
no. defnitely not. all of the vehicle's weight should be sitting on the wheels, just as it normally is.
i have emailed the installation instructions to those who have already received theirs. if anyone would like a copy of these now, email me at firstname.lastname@example.org --do not pm for these as they are a Word attachment
so....who will be the FIRST to get them installed???
Actually I disagree. I too used to think this way until I had an in-depth conversation with Doug Lewis (SHO-God and part owner of Ford Performance Specialists). I am going to use the SHO as an example since that is what our discussion was about, but it direct transfers to this car. If you weld the SFC in as you state, then you are in essence supporting the car in its 'sagged' state. Remember, the cars sag a bit in the middle with their age, and as I said earlier, if you weld them in with the weight on the tires, you are now making the car permanently this way. If you put hte car on a lift with the weight supported by the jack points the car now 'bows' up, and the SFC welded in this way will 'pre-load' the car so once its put back on the ground, the car 'should' be straight again.
I tried finding an article on SHOtimes about this, but for whatever reason the site is down.
Searching SHOforum, here's a blurb from Doug. Not his whole right up
Originally posted by SHO Dude: Only problem with that page is that the car is on a drive-on lift with the weight on the wheels. It should be on a frame life with the weight of the wheels on the chassis. This induces a negative camber into the chassis before welding. Once the connectors are welded in and the car is sitting back on it's wheels, it will be preloaded straight.
BTW, those are some cheezy bars. 1x2 box tubing in 18ga isn't all that strong.
Some info on their affects on FWD cars
Originally posted by SHO Dude:We designed and engineered the first subframe connectors for the SHO.
We had been putting subframe connectors on Mustangs for years, but never on anything else.
Back in '97, I thought about subframe connectors and how they'd help the handling in my '89 SHO. It was a ritual of mine when leaving the shop to make the turn out of the parking lot and run the car up to about 4000 and nail the throttle. The car would spin the tires all the way to 7000 and then finally hook up. It was a signature of mine. Then I had the idea about using the subframe connectors on my car. I built a set out of the same stuff we were putting on the Mustangs and welded them to the bottom of my car. After getting them on, I went for a little test drive. I turned out of the parking lot and ran it up to 4000, but when I snapped the throttle to the floor, the car front tires stuck and didn't spin like usual. I thought it was a little strange, but kept going. I instantly felt a difference in the ride. The car was much more responsive to steering inputs and I felt like I was in much more control of the car.
I came back to the shop and started thinking about what I had done. As it turns out, the subframe connectors did quite a lot for the car.
The first thing is traction. When you put power down, the engine wants to roll back to the firewall. The torque vector wants to lift up on the radiator core support and push down on the firewall. This wants to unload the front tires simply by inducing a flex in the chassis. The subframe connectors hold the chassis in check and prevent this flex, so, they help hold the front tires harder on the ground.
Then I looked at the handling. The same flex that lifts the front tires also happens when you load the suspension in a turn. The chassis actually twists as the sway bars work against the turn. With the subframe connectors, the chassis can't twist and they let the sway bars get to do a better job. They make the car feel like it's got a bigger rear bar and thus less understeer and more oversteer.
Some time later, a good friend of mine was in his '93 ATX along with his family. He pulled thru traffic on a busy 3 lane road to get to the center turn lane and go the other direction. What he didn't see was the Pontiac LaBarron heading at him at about 40mph. The LaBarron T-Boned him right in the driver's door. The door gave way as did the rocker panel, but everything stopped at the subframe connector. I'm confident they saved him from a broken hip. He and his family walked away unharmed.
The subframe connectors really impact the handling of the car. Essentially, the stiffer you make the chassis, the better the suspension can do it's job. In this case, our original subframe connectors give you better straight line traction and more turning control and improve the safety in an accident.