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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting cover
#1296528 - 08/09/06 02:42 AM

So as you guys know i finished up a timing belt job a while back on my moms ford contour 2.0L I4.

I checked up on the belt and parts today after the oil change and i noticed the belt is getting a little scorched along the edge facing away from the engine (the exterior side).

Its nothing major but it seems like the belt is running off center on the sprockets.

If anyone knows why its running that way please let me know. I would like to have it run down the center or away from the exterior to prevent any damage to the belt edges. The tension seems to be fairly low but the car isnt showing any signs, so its not missing time. I just want to avoid what happened previously when the idler seized up.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you. CIprian

This is the procedure I used from a web site on ford motors specific to my I4.

REVISED TIMING BELT & TENSION SETUP ON 2.0L

To achieve proper timing belt tension on this engine, Ford says the camshaft sprocket bolts should be loosened enough to permit the sprockets to turn freely on the camshafts. Once this has been done, rotate the crankshaft clockwise so cylinder No. 1 is at top dead center. Then, install the camshaft alignment tool in the camshaft slots to hold the cams in place.

Back out the tensioner bolt four full turns and position the tensioner so the locating tab is at approximately the 4 o'clock position. Line up the hex key slot in the tensioner-adjusting washer with the pointer that is located behind the pulley.

Working counterclockwise from the crank sprocket, install the timing belt.

Rotate the tensioner locating tab counterclockwise and insert the locating tab into the slot in the rear timing cover.

Position the hex key slot in the tensioner-adjusting washer to the 4 o'clock position.p>

Tighten the attaching bolt enough to seat the tensioner firmly against the rear timing cover, but still allow the tensioner adjusting washer to be rotated using a 6 mm hex key.

Using the hex key, rotate the adjusting washer counterclockwise until the notch in the pointer is centered over the index line on the locating tab. (The pointer will move in a clockwise direction during adjustment).

While holding the adjusting washer in position, torque the attaching bolt to 18 lb-ft (25 N.m).

Note: If the pointer does not remain centered over the index line during final tightening, loosen the bolt and repeat the procedure beginning with step 4.


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Loco4G63Moderator
CEG road warrior

Reged: 08/01/01
Posts: 17248
Loc: IL
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296531 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/09/06 02:47 AM

Keep an eye on it. Mine did the same....rubbed a little on the end, didn't go further than that.

--------------------
Hector

2003 Rally Red Mitsubishi Evolution VIII
257HP/259TQ


2005 Lapis Blue Mazda 6s

RET: 00 Cabernet Red Ford Contour Zetec ATX SUPERCHARGED
160HP/141TQ





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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296544 (Re: Loco4G63) 08/09/06 03:11 AM

so is it supposed to run like that offcenter?

It seems to be ripping little strings out of the belt. It looks like its too far in my opinion.

I will take some pics tomorrow of the belt for you guys. I want to seal this thing up, but the burned rubber smell isnt really what i expected. Otherwise the car runs great.

Any other signs? does it mean the tensioner is too tight or too loose if its doing this? I noticed if i tighten it the seems to run off even more, but no results if i loosen it from the 3 to 4 o clock position. Just more wobble.

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296563 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/09/06 03:39 AM

My belt is close to the edge but if it's tearing the belt up, then there's a problem.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296578 (Re: Kremithefrog) 08/09/06 03:52 AM

No damage yet, but it seems to be trying to run into the wall. Like little thread like strings are visible around that edge. The rubber and and teeth are all perfect. It has about 1/16 from the outside, and 1/8 from the inside. SO i can see the metal reflecting when the engine runs on the outside.

Ive taken the car for a 100km drive, revved to 5000rpm on the spot and no issues. Just those strings are bothering me. Am i doing something wrong with the tension?

I looked at my old belt and it looks perfect after 94000 km.
Thats why its troubling me. I think the tensioner is the only thing at fault, because im not sure on the setting.

Is there a fool proof way of adjusting the tension? Any pics of it being done?

Thanks for all of the help guys. Your advice has helped me a lot.

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Loco4G63Moderator
CEG road warrior

Reged: 08/01/01
Posts: 17248
Loc: IL
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296661 (Re: Kremithefrog) 08/09/06 10:30 AM

It isn't supposed to run off center. If you set it up somewhere off center once you start the car the belt will "center" itself. Point being mine (my first timing belt install) was off by very little, frayed the edge of the belt, and after that inital issue didn't fray anymore. The belt lasted another 40k before I changed it.

--------------------
Hector

2003 Rally Red Mitsubishi Evolution VIII
257HP/259TQ


2005 Lapis Blue Mazda 6s

RET: 00 Cabernet Red Ford Contour Zetec ATX SUPERCHARGED
160HP/141TQ





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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1296706 (Re: Loco4G63) 08/09/06 12:37 PM

Im still not sure why its doing that tho. What im afraid of is the belt getting weaker and stripping itself as it did when it had too much tension (the outside was stripped and the engine stalled).

This all started when an idler wasnt replaced during a routine belt replacement at a local shop at 94000km. Then all hell broke loose since i had to fix the timing myself. Now its running offcenter and its on its 3rd belt.

All of the other components are new. I just cant find what im doing wrong, it has to be the tensioner setting for sure, am i right?

This is a sketch of what mine looks like. Ill get some real shots later on today when i get back.



Thanks Again,
Ciprian

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1297019 (Re: Loco4G63) 08/09/06 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Loco4G63:
It isn't supposed to run off center. If you set it up somewhere off center once you start the car the belt will "center" itself. Point being mine (my first timing belt install) was off by very little, frayed the edge of the belt, and after that inital issue didn't fray anymore. The belt lasted another 40k before I changed it.




Mine runs like the pic above, not off the side but close to running off the side.

Im worried because i changed this belt about 1000km ago and all the parts were new. The tensioner had too much tension, way too much and the car stalled on the highway since the intake or crank jumped a tooth while running. I would like to avoid that so i dont know how to tell if its running correctly.

I adjusted the tensioner as per instructions above, but the belt is still constantly running offcenter to the outside, even after i took it for a 100km trip, its running offcenter and the belt is scraping the crank or something.



I just dont know what else to do, i looked at my old belt and pulleys and they all look perfect, i have a feeling something is wrong. Would an incorrect tension lead to this offcenter problem im having.

Please let me know,
Thanks in advance

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KerryKool
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 09/29/04
Posts: 979
Loc: Tampa, FL
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1297051 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/09/06 09:47 PM

I had my Timing Belt replaced at the dealer and they said it was caused by the tensioner i.e. loose belt. They also replaced the timing cover on my belt to a larger one.

--------------------
My ride(Cardomain link) :

'95 Contour 16V Zetec DOHC, Teal , ATX
Born on Sep. 4, 1995
86+ miles
*LEDs mods are on their way!*

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1297061 (Re: KerryKool) 08/09/06 10:05 PM

i never thought of that, the top cover?

Do you by any chance know what the cover came from?

Also the tensioner was too loose? Mine seems to be running better with a loose tensioner vs a tight setting.

Maybe i could drive it a bit or let it run in the garage without the top cover and see if the belt shows any wear.

Ive replaced the tensioner and all idlers so that step is done, just the cover is left.

Thank you for the suggestion. Anyone else experience this problem?

Edited by linuxglobal (08/09/06 10:06 PM)

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1297064 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/09/06 10:06 PM

Also here are the pics of mine.
Here are the pics

This is after the engine was turned off, so im assuming thats how it runs. I noticed it seems to wobble a bit while idling. From the intake (tensioner cam) to the exhaust the belt goes from the inside out. Its really strange, not a lot but a little bit of movement in and out. The belt edges worry me the most. Some up close pics of the belt show this wear. Remember this belt is about 100km old about 2 hrs of driving.





Tensioner pulley on the left


Tensioner up close


belt wear on exterior face


Let me know if these pics will suffice, does it look of for now? Tension is a little under standards but the car runs well with this setup.

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1297841 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/10/06 08:50 PM

any other suggestions? Does the belt look too worn to be used?

Please let me know, im looking into a new bolt for the tensioner in case thats why its running offcenter.

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jd2-98s
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 12/19/04
Posts: 508
Loc: Rhode Island
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1299421 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/13/06 12:46 AM

If you do this job get the belt kit it will have new rollers as well I think it was 130-160 but well worth it

--------------------
JD a.k.a Fingers
"Don't Panic"

'98 Contour GL 2.0L VCT ATX 88k
'98 Contour LX 2.5L MTX 120k

Street racing can kill
just less of a chance with a 2.0



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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1299452 (Re: jd2-98s) 08/13/06 02:39 AM

I bought all new parts about 1 month ago, then it stripped the belt. So i bought a new belt since the other parts were replaced with the old belt. The tension was too high in the tensioner.

So im going to look into the covers and fire up the engine with my friend. Im pretty sure the bottom cover is hitting the belt.

This belt (pics) is about 100km old, so 2 hrs of driving or less. IT shouldnt be in this shape. Ill get a new a belt (yet again) and see how it turns out.

Thanks for your help.

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macb
Newbie

Reged: 02/19/06
Posts: 9
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1302219 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/17/06 11:01 AM

I had a similar problem after replacing the tensioner. Seems like I had to loosen,reseat and retorque the tensioner a couple of times and it appeared to run straight at that point. Those parts must be torqued.

Only my 2 cents..

MacB

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1302249 (Re: macb) 08/17/06 12:39 PM

Good point, i will set the torque on it. I had it just tight. I torqued all of the other parts in the system, just not the tensioner.

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1303660 (Re: linuxglobal) 08/20/06 11:28 PM

I still need some advice, i got everything pulled off and installed a new belt. It seems like the alloy cover was hitting the belt and it caused that side damage.

Now i installed the belt fired it up and it works great, got the tension set, torque on the tensioner.

BUt its still running close to the outside. It doesnt move anymore tho, before it used to move slightly from the intake to the exhaust cam on a cycle (in and out), not it runs to the outside but all the time.

I tried pusing the tensioner on that yellow pastic and the belt quickly moved towards the motor (which is what i wanted) its very strange how quickly it does it. I was just touching with my finger. Then i did the same thing on the bottom side of the idler and the belt moved out more.

So i dont know what to do, should i just leave it the way it is or use some spacers on that yellow plastic to keep it pushed in from the top? Does that sound like a good idea.

If anyone is in the GTA (Mississauga) area, i am willing to work with you on a price to get my contour fixed. I need a mechanic who has done this before to get it to run safely. Please let me know, PM or email at camunteanu@gmail.com

Thanks,
Ciprian

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1310435 (Re: linuxglobal) 09/01/06 12:36 AM

Just to update everyone the offcenter problem was caused by the tensioner bolt torque setting, it needs to be torqued otherwise it will not run offcenter.

I just need some advise in terms of the tensioner setting.

This is what i did originally
1. installed the belt at TDC, then tensioned the tensioner to the 4 o clock position.
2. Increased tension untill the little index marker lined up with the mark on the tensioner (approx at 2.65 oclock position)

Then i went on the high way and the tensioner index was way off, like really tense and the belt was tight and hot. So i did the following,

While the belt was hot right after getting off the highway, i stopped the car and readjusted the tensioner to the index point.

Now it gets to the index marker even when hot (running on high way) but when the car starts up the belt tensioner shows the belt is loose. I dont know, what do u guys think? Is it ok this way? Im guessing too much slack may be bad as well but i dont want the belt getting frayed again. The car has almost 200km now and the belt still looks like new at this setting. I kept the top cover off as well to check up on it every so often. It should be ok without the cover right?

Thanks for all the help.
Ciprian

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1311028 (Re: linuxglobal) 09/02/06 12:10 AM

Just today after running the belt for almost 300km the check engine light came on.

i got an error of p1381 : Camshaft position timing over advanced (bank 1).

any ideas

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting co new
#1311036 (Re: linuxglobal) 09/02/06 01:05 AM

Originally posted by linuxglobal:
Just today after running the belt for almost 300km the check engine light came on.

i got an error of p1381 : Camshaft position timing over advanced (bank 1).

any ideas




I was just thinking, would all of the setup trials cause this problem, there was a time when the belt was offset and the car didnt start and ran rough after a while when it did. Im thinking maybe thats what recorded as an error and it just popped up now as a problem.

I erased the code for now and ill see if it persists. Otherwise the car runs fine and no problems with the belt either. Ive driven through hot weather as well along with non stop trips for about 60km one way.

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Dec1000
CEG'er

Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 75
Loc: Virginia
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting cover new
#1311057 (Re: linuxglobal) 09/02/06 01:53 AM

Everything I told you in the other post about timing is happening to you. I told you if you didn't get the timing right you would get the PO1381 or PO1383 code. With the VCT solenoid, the timing has to be right on. That is why it is important to have the cam tool and crank pin and leave the cam sprockets loose and get the tension right.

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linuxglobal
New CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/06
Posts: 39
Re: Timing belt running offcenter?????? Hitting cover new
#1311214 (Re: Dec1000) 09/02/06 02:43 PM

DAMN!!!..

so where can those tools be purchased? I have a plate that was machined to hold the cam ends but i dont have a crank pin. Im also worried about messing around with that exhaust cam spring.

Thanks, i will look over the doc u sent me.

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