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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC
#280351 - 05/10/03 04:08 AM

I paid about $50 to $75 for Ford to find this with their sniffer (UV light) ..
and by the way, don't EVER take your car to Pep-boys for AC -- u get the wrong guy and your screwed .. .. because PBY indicated it just needed a recharge when in fact days before it had been recharged and only made cold air about 5 days before it got warmer and warmer.

So last year Ford dealer said the condser neede replacement.
That it would probably be cheaper to replace it than repair it . PBY does have this for $139 (special order - received in 3-5 days) .. You can get the disconnect tool for $8.

I read in the archive about a guy repairing .. someone said maybe JB-weld type high-temp epoxy-'metal' then another guy said no, on a hot day there is way too much pressure --

The condensor is Aluminum I beleive so , it either gets a TIG weld or nothing .. epoxy wouldn't hold the pressure.
Then a pressure test... (not worth the hastle ).

So this means the condensor needs replacing.

1. Has anybody recently replaced the condensor ?
(Apparently little rocks easily get up there and break it)

2. What probability is there that the compressor O-rings
need replacing?

3. The evaporator - would that have evaporated the dessicant being that the vehicle sat for a year .. AC recharged and evacuated about 3 times and then has not been in working condition about another 9 months ?

Thanks,
Eric
Rochester,NY

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#280354 (Re: eric1) 05/10/03 04:13 AM

not sure about any answers to u'r questions. but if u want a used condensor for CHEAP, then PM me.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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eric1
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Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#292942 (Re: Kremithefrog) 05/21/03 11:21 PM

what is a PM ?
I can get a new condensor from pby for $139.
is yours better quality and with what warranty ?


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#292956 (Re: eric1) 05/21/03 11:38 PM

Anybody pull a condensor lately ? my highly illustrated Haynes manual indicates to unbolt the condensor. It says to see illustration 7.5 )( and lift it out of the vehicle.
Turning back 5 pages I see ill. 7.5 has a pic of the radiator mounting bracket-to-subframe bolts (A) and the air conditioning system condensor mounting bolt (B).

Unfortunately, it doesnt indicate if one needs to remove A before B or A & B or B before A .

Anybody pulled one of these and recall the experience ?

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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horseydugModerator
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/19/02
Posts: 2319
Loc: Pickering, Ontario, Canada
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#292957 (Re: eric1) 05/21/03 11:40 PM

PM = Private Message, click 'My Home' button above.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#292992 (Re: eric1) 05/22/03 12:19 AM

two condensor bolts on bottom, and you drop it out after removing a/c lines with Ford tools. you have to wiggle it out, helps to have some1 on each side to see how to pull it. my condensor is used with ~80k miles on it, should be ok, no warranty, but very very cheap.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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2X95SEs
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Reged: 10/27/00
Posts: 770
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#293095 (Re: Kremithefrog) 05/22/03 01:51 AM

Only thing on my AC that gave me trouble are the cheap hoses Ford got from BadYear. Leaked on both cars. Wally Mart stop leak actually stopped the leaks on both cars. Latest bug is the compressor relay. It would flake out and the AC would die. Big yellow relay next to the WOT (blue) relay in the middle of the relay box. Cost 9 bucks to fix. This relay has been known to cause the failure of clutch coils due to insufficient current.

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#295773 (Re: 2X95SEs) 05/24/03 05:23 AM

ok .. well advice to buy a thing from wally (motorcraft oil filter) worked before .. so i broke down to get the MaxiSeal 2 step system repair all metal and then rubber leak seal kit for $11+ . I also bought (about $25) the complete R-134A service kit which is the connector hose with pressure guage and 14 oz of refrigerant.

My question is : the AC hasnt had a diagnostic in nearly a year. I havent really used it and at that time it was charged.
Should I charge the system first then add the maxi-seal OR
add the maxiseal and then charge the system (which I have no idea of how much pressure [low side?] exists.
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
The MaxiSeal step 1 can indicates 'if system is empty follow application of maxi seal #2 with a full refrigerant charge'. I would suppose that you could do the MaxiSeal 1st but maybe its better to do it after ? Anybody know ?

If I neeed additional refrigerant, I need to add 2 oz of oil per can- how do you do that ? ( I guess it is mixed in with some kinds of refrigerant ? )
==================================
The last i knew is that with a charge on the ac it would blow cold air about 6 days before it became progressively warm to the point of not much air cooling capacity.


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#295877 (Re: eric1) 05/24/03 07:20 AM

Well.. I just coulnd't wait....
I started her up cracked the garage door and away I went with my Maxiseal.
Bottle 1 followed by bottle 2 on the low pressure side.

Then -- not knowing the state of the pressure, and reading the instructions indicating to immediately recharge if low.. i quickly got the r134a with pressure dial attached .

I am not certain if it had been circulating for 3 minutes
and I had it on max but the fan on low.. I turned it up to level 3 of 4 after a couple minutes.

My thermometer in the car was at about 65.

The pressure said 35. which is inbtween the low 25 and high 45 -- but the instructions say the dial is accurate for an ambient of 75 to 85 and it was lower so I figured it was lower than 35 so I would add some refrigerant ( I should have left well enuf alone). Then I saw the thing getting up to the other colors andthen red , but I should have realized that happens when you recharge and it circulates.

So , stupidly, after maybe a few more minutes I pulled the schrader valve andprobably lost some of the maxi seal crap when i did this, not to mention the freyon wass pissing and hissing all over then i saw i could close that back down on the can with the brass puncture valve( but i doubt that it has much seal to it ). I didnt see that high pressure again it seemed to be back down to 35 again when i checked it in a minute or so without the refrigerant valve going.

Anyway, the car temp was up to 70 with max ac and fan on 3rd high. So .... what is the problem ? even if there was a slow leak, there was sufficient coolant pressure on the low side to , it would seem, allow the cooling to occurr.

I am no AC expert, is anybody out there? Does anybody have an idea of what is going on here ?

thx in adv.

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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F111D F
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 05/27/00
Posts: 635
Loc: Lucas,Ohio
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296024 (Re: eric1) 05/24/03 03:41 PM

Note contact your insurance agent, if the dealer will verify stone damage/road hazard this maybe covered under your "comprehensive" same as damage to windsheilds. I'll save you the hassle of trying to fix-it.
My dad a few years ago had this happen to his Crown-Vic and the service manager told about it. Dad had dealt with this dealer for the last 50 years didn't hurt either.
Motorists Mutual was the insurance. Must be one of those secret coverages????
Won't hurt to ask.
Paul







--------------------
Paul
98 Mystique LS 2ea (07/97)(08/98)

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296072 (Re: F111D F) 05/24/03 04:57 PM

unfortunately i have the min. liability coverage on the car . and it has 106k miles .

i did notice that i didnt see the AC compressor spinning so that wouldbe a good indication as to why the air not being cooled.

maybe the clutch for the compressor is not functioning or relays to turn it on are not getting the proper signal.(with ac on max and full air blow i didnt see the comressor spin or hear any load for several minutes).

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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tomtoursvt
CEG'er

Reged: 01/11/03
Posts: 157
Loc: Vegas baby Vegas
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296123 (Re: eric1) 05/24/03 06:05 PM

Are you sure it's not a leak in one of the hoses.
If it blew cold air out for 5 days and then got warmer, then it sounds like you may have a slow leak like I do. The hoses Ford uses are p.o.s..
I put some dye in with the coolant and noticed a bunch of pin size holes on the top a/c hose.

--------------------
98 SVT E0 T-Red
E1 engine
resonator removed
K&N w/ MAF adapter
20% tint
Ford Trans. cocktail
Ford 9mm Racing Wires
DMD


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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296263 (Re: tomtoursvt) 05/24/03 09:25 PM

i'm a genius!!! I took my brain and my hand and my stupid trouble light and i looked at the compressor when the engine was on and the ac on max and the fan on highest level .. and its not turning the compressor.. im a genius.. theres no reason to buy $11 maxi seal or $25 recharge kit .. none of that crap will do any damn good without the compressor turning over !!!! withouth the gas circulating in the system, your not getting any cooling power no matter how much crap you stick in it !

SO THE QUESTION IS:

Why isn't the compressor clutch engaging every so often so the compressor can pump the gas ?


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296562 (Re: eric1) 05/25/03 05:23 AM

i wonder if putting in that maxi seal stuff when i only had the ac on low fan like seazed up the compressor or something ... because it seemed it was cycling and then after i did that seal crap .. it wasnt cycling anymore...

logical, captain. so maybe i should put a wrench to the compressor clutch bolt (with engine off of course) to verify that it actually CAN turn and it's not just an electrical switch/solenoid problem - u know , avoid the noid.



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296734 (Re: eric1) 05/25/03 04:38 PM

i put the dial pressure indicator on and its low... my 'friend' that sold me the car said that the compressor isnt engaging because the pressure is low...
(im only talking about the low pressure side of the system where you can add r134a).

so i go get another can .. put the ac on max with max air flow and procede with the new can installation.
after 10 min.. i dont see the compressor kicking on , the ambient inside the vehicle is not reduced and i think my friend is no ac expert.

my haynes manual is about as useful as a box of dirt.



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296759 (Re: eric1) 05/25/03 05:16 PM

well i just turned the car off and let it sit with the can filling apparatus attached . the dial said 70+ lbs. on the low side.. after about 10 or 15 min i went and started it up.. i also kind of wiggled the low pressure cycling switch before starting.. but then i heard glory. .. the compressor kicking on and off... and seeing my thermometer temp gradually drop inside ... so it took the 12 oz can .

i dont think the damn dial is worth a tinkers damn in several instances on the low side.. because of the ambient and humidity and all that crap that affects it...

i just wonder at what temp the interior should get down to ?

it got down to about 60 inside the car ... this is after it had been at about 79 inside of it.

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#296979 (Re: eric1) 05/25/03 11:40 PM

well later in the day i was trying the ac and it was blowing warm air . i think it needs another can of r134.
the compressor cycles 3 seconds on and about 5 seconds off (frequency is too fast).

think i'll get the dye penetrant into the system and get a ultraviolet (black light) source to check around the system and hopefully see something -- better to have the equipment than go drop $70 at Ford dealer.. Better to go to a small shop that has a reputation for good AC work than to go to Ford dealer with an expensive bill.


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#297708 (Re: eric1) 05/27/03 12:22 AM

so i bought my can of r134UV from wallie super and it wis laike $5.88 and then i put it in the car and then like .. when it got dark i then clased tho cagraged door and then i used my cheap light bulb with coated purple UV simulation and i didnt see a damnt thing not oeven at the low side schraeder valve where the uv crap was added.

conclusion:
You must have a real UV source not a cheap incandescent limitation imitation from BigLots. (also can be purchased from HomeDepot for more than 99cents)

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#301191 (Re: eric1) 05/29/03 11:30 PM

so for $12.99 i bought an LED penlight UV light itcame with batteries and goggles (yellow) and it is not returnable from autozone.. os for i havent seen s... . i guess ill look after dark. it is a bright little mother for AAA bats.

well the condensor is pretty well situated ..ints a real b.... to get at and look at well .. i wonder if the uvr134a is of the proper frequency spectrum of light emmision for the 200nm? LED UV penlight I bought.. i mean will the UV in the canister glow when excited from the photons produced by my new UV penlight ? i dont think ID mfg. co and teh chinese or tiawanese mfg of the penlight consulted prior to making their products .. and hence hte probablity of a standard frequency domain for them to mutually utilize is partial and leaves me in a non-chalant demeaner... I just knew i would be not happy with the light when i brought it home , though it is bright, i am not even seeing the low port schraeder glow (where i input the r134A-UV)

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317638 (Re: eric1) 06/14/03 08:59 PM

I made \a new post for this but it really is a continuation of this problem as well.

The 4 8mm bolt heads holding the bracket for the radiator bottem in which the condensor is also heald are just rusted to hell ...
i am going to drill and screw extract because thats the last ditch effort.


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317837 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 03:32 AM

WELL i only paid $60 for a used condensor from a salvage yard which was pressure tested( umm.. well.. as good as they could) but i brought it home and took it up to 60 psi in my basement washbasins, using a portable 12V compressor, a 10amp battery charger and an engine compression tester, (the port. compressor had a guage on it as well)...

but it has been a hell to use my cheap plastic PEP boys ac/fuel line removal tool $8 which compresses the little spring holding the couplings together.

Also, the condensor DOES NOT LIFT UP it must come down, this is because the hood latch prevents the condensor from going upward! it is welded (spot) to the frame! so to pull the condensor down you must remove the radiator bracket.. and those 4 damn bolts were just rusted to hell and i had to drill the damn things out as the cheap screw extractor just didnt hack it past 1 bolt .. and the bit had to be sharpened after every bolt ..

then i chiseled the bolt heads off... more crappy crap to perform tomorrow with the remaining bolt/nut left over.

i still have to straighten the fins on the salvage condensor

man there was a ton of dust/ crap built up in the radiator fins .. haynes recommends a hose or soft brush to remove the accumulation.. so as not tobend the fins.

well.. all for now .. if i get the ac going before summer's over .. u can be glad to not have to read anymore continuation of this thr\ead....


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Josch
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 06/11/02
Posts: 652
Loc: Washington
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317903 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 06:24 AM

If I was you, I would have evacuated the system with a vacuum pump motor for a minimum 1/2 hour before even trying to charge the system at all. That was standard procedure for back when I always used to work on A/C at a previous job at a shop I used to work at. The vacuum helps to suck the freon in, and also serves to create super low absolute pressure so as to boil out any moisture that may be in the system (during that time you have the vacuum pump on it). Also, if it wont take the full 1 lb 12oz (I think that's what Contour takes?), then make sure you start it up and run it while filling from the low side, so the lowside pressure drop will help to draw the rest of the freon in, as it converts most of it into liquid by pressurizing it into the high side. Did you do all that?

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'95 CONTOUR SE
-Enkei 16s
-SVT wannabe
-Dual escapes w/ 2 1/2" stainless tips
-True LED taillight conversion
-Audi Xenon Projector Retrofit
-Mp3 deck, dual 10s

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317976 (Re: Josch) 06/15/03 12:17 PM

If I was you, I would have evacuated the system with a vacuum pump motor for a minimum 1/2 hour before even trying to charge the system at all. That was standard procedure for back when I always used to work on A/C at a previous job at a shop I used to work at. The vacuum helps to suck the freon in, and also serves to create super low absolute pressure so as to boil out any moisture that may be in the system (during that time you have the vacuum pump on it). Also, if it wont take the full 1 lb 12oz (I think that's what Contour takes?), then make sure you start it up and run it while filling from the low side, so the lowside pressure drop will help to draw the rest of the freon in, as it converts most of it into liquid by pressurizing it into the high side. Did you do all that?

==========================================================

Hey Josch,
Um.. I was talknig to a guy at work that said he did his wife's car without any vaccuum.. and is still going strong after 1.5 yrs. Yeah I did connect the filler tube to the low side to see if anything was coming out .. and nothing did .. the green UV crap did spill out a bit when i discon .. and what a b.... it was getting one of the condensor connections undone .. I needed to remove that U-tube that sits in front of the condensor to buy a little room. Little chinsey plastic pep boys tool cant be good for too many reuses ...

I do have a mity-vac (hand vaccuum) .. but that isnothing like a vac pump and 20 min.... but i'll let it suck some anyway .. though it's prob almost as good as doing nothing.. my little 12v compressor may have ability to go in vaccuum mode, if thats the case then im in business.
16+12 =28 oz .. or just 2 of those 14 oz cans with the oil already mixed in .. does this mean i wouldnt have to add the 20cc of oil it recommends when you replace any AC part (ie compressor, accumulator, etc).

I will definitely be running the motor to fill the thing up as any DIY'er does .. I think you need big equipment to do it without the compressor running... or woeuldnt u need to anyway ?

Well.. I think i do want the ac more for humidity removal just as much as for cooling .. after motor has been on 15 min.. and the system is up to 180-205 all that heat radiates into the cockpit so you get like a 10 or 20 deg. increase from ambient without having any air flow... and then after 30 min the 'cool' vent blows warm air as the whole engine compartment has been thermally radiated from the engine. If only the engine (and radiator) were in the rear you could almost do without AC.

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318112 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 06:46 PM

well i spent between an 1/2 to an hour straightening the majority of the straightenable fins on the replacement salvage condensor (i have to still get a return onthe condensorfrom pepboys , which uhave to pay f or before you can even special order ( 3to 5 days) .. its been about 5 and no call from them .. i think i called them after 2 days and they said " the truck will be in tomorrow")

so i pressure checked my original condensor .. i think i got itupto about40 psi .. compared to the 60 i got with the replacement one -- but i was just pushing tapered nozzle ofa 12v compressor and the other orifice i stuck a compression tester guage into. I didnt fill up my washbasin with water to see for air bubbles when i tested the original condensor but i did for the replacement, which i saw none for.

I dont know what the amount is supposed to be .. but the condensor is the low pressure side, i think.

lotta cigarrets and beer to get through this crap..

i tried to tap with 1/4 20 the original radiator mount holse.. no avail -the steel is too hard , the tap too cheap.

so there is just enough metal on the side of the original holes to drill new ones .. and 1/4 " can be used .. i had a screw set of machine threads , nuts, washers, locks.. i think the thread was 25 or 26 .. whatever , not standard.

u have to drill slowly, like your milling, or else the bit will just dull down in about 30 seconds ..
God, this has been the project from hell
I am out of energy, I usually take Sundays very easily...
Last night was very very late like 1030 before I started cleaning up. All this with a left finger that suffered laceration that should have gotten stitches 3 weeks ago and a recent thumb jam on the other hand fri afternoon, nail cut back about 1/4 " to clean out debree, which hurts like hell when pressure is applied.

Laying on the concrete of the garage with a sheet of cardboard really stops the body's circulation .. i woke up with a a real pain in the side i laid on to do work from the night before .. rested my head on foam and that would have been good for the whole body .. there is just not enough clearance to work with your arms with the creeper roller as the car sits so low..

There is a ton of almost like bird nest crap I need to brush out from between the radiator and condensor but it's on the front of the radiator .. i'll use a brass bristle brush, very fine to do it .. i wouldnt do it with a steel bristle brush because your brushing the aluminum fins of the radiator ... This must be from 107000 miles of accumulation. The bottom area is where the impact of tiny pebbles make their way into the lower area of the condensor and so my suggestion is to not follow industrial vehicles on the highway!


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318254 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 10:59 PM

Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.

You can't check it well with an air compressor.

Make sure your connections are TIGHT.

Also, if the system has been discharged a while, the filter drier is probably saturated and will fall apart under use. While your friend may have been ok, your mileage may vary. If the dessicant gets loose in the system, it will clog all orifices and the evaporator. Effectively destroying the system.
Pulling a dehydrating vacuum is always a good idea.




--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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eric1
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Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318350 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/16/03 02:10 AM

Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.

You can't check it well with an air compressor.

Make sure your connections are TIGHT.

Also, if the system has been discharged a while, the filter drier is probably saturated and will fall apart under use. While your friend may have been ok, your mileage may vary. If the dessicant gets loose in the system, it will clog all orifices and the evaporator. Effectively destroying the system.
Pulling a dehydrating vacuum is always a good idea.

...................................................

Well.. I guess i associated the condensor with the fill port on the low side because they arenext toeachother.

Umm.. i think it heald partial charge for the time.... as it had a very slow leak..

Another thing is some damn rubber crap on top of the radiator fell off when i pulled the condensor down (V6 people only , 4 cyl people go up), its a long strip that slips into a slot? I mean stud? I mean thin strip on top of the radiator (there are 2 on top and bottom) and covers the top of the condensor and keeps the 2 from rubbing. well , the Haynes manual doesnt say a damn thing about it .

Also, I found that , I just ASSumed that my drilling 2 holes outside the original ones would work.. guess what ? It doesnt! I am only holding the brackets with one 25 or 26 tpi machine screw. The hardened steel originals were of 8mm head and 10mm nut .. I don't know the tpi but there were 2 of them. Well.. Umm.. yeah.. try and get at least one of the bolts out!

I made sure the connections were tight .. all u can do is visually check that that the spring is out side the aluminum shim rim thing. and then put the metal hold down clips in place.



The dessicant may be loose, the evaporator and orifices could very well be clogged. The system probably is s... .
Well, I don't have a vaccuumm well, one that is readialy applicable.. building tools for applications in short order is never a timely fashion.


Howevery, I made apurchase atwalmart, 4.5 for 12 oz freon, and 5 something fro theoil charge.

I putthe 1st can of freon in , I may not have left it on long enough, and then the oil can .. I noticed the temp got down to 59 inside max ac fan high. as i was barbquing and drinking another beer, i was checking things and feeling the weight of the oil can charge.. it was not empty af tery several minutes , maybe 20 or more.

i noticed the temp going up and the compressor was not kicking on , the oil can charge was half full.. .
i had no idea what was going on so i sealed the oil charge ( as i dont want to be buying another one) and pulled the f ill hose and shut the engine off until someone can tell me what i may be experiencing as far as the reason the full oil charge wasnt taken in


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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vaccuumm of the evacuation and removal of the stuf new
#319596 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 02:56 AM

Hello

Would I be applying the 30 min of vaccuumm to the low pressure side or the high pressure port ?

thanks

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Rogerm60
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Re: vaccuumm of the evacuation and removal of the stuf new
#319697 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 04:06 AM

Most guage sets allow you to open both sides to vacuum.

30 inches is relative to sea level and barometric pressure.


--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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RoadRunner
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Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#319976 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 01:13 PM

Originally posted by eric1:
Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.




Okay,

Here is an overview of your AC system in case you wondered how it all worked...

Compressor -> Accumulator(Dryer) -> Evaporator -> Orifice -> Condensor -> Compressor.

Everything between the Compressor and the Orifice is HIGH PRESSURE.
Everything between the Orifice and the Compressor is LOW Pressure.
The Orifice is a very small tube, surrounded by a very fine filter.
This is the only part responsible for the HIGH/LOW side pressures,
and can cause a lot of problems if it is clogged with metal shavings
from a worn out and poorly lubricated compressor.

You should find this valve and replace it if needed.
It is easy to locate, just follow the hose route and somethere where there is a union,
between the evaporator and the condensor, you will see dimples on one side, in the tubing.
The dimples hold the Orifice tube in place.
Open the union and remove the Orifice tube and take a good look at it.
If it is clean and full of oil, then your compressor and AC system is fine.
Then you can just put it back.
If it looks dirty and full of metal grit, like the metal grit in the bottom of a tranny pan,
then you will need to replace your compressor and accumulator.

Now, the parts are named this for their function...
The COMPRESSOR takes the R134a and compresses it, turning it into a LIQUID, and pumping it through the AC Line.
The LIQUID, under HIGH PRESSURE cannot be forced through the Evaporator quickly, so it ACCUMULATES in the Accumulator(or Dryer).
From the Accumulator, the R134a flows into the EVAPORATOR.
The Evaporator is called so because, high pressure R134a enters as LIQUID and leaves as a GAS (evaporates).
The blower fan inside your car draws hot air through the evaporator
and the liquid R134a removes the heat from the air, making the air cold.
The high pressure liquid then turns to a high pressure GAS (EVAPORATING) from the change in temperature.
This GAS then passes through the ORIFICE, which regulates the flow of the gas.
Once through the Orifice, there is a change in pressure.
Now the R134a is a MODERATE PRESSURE HEATED gas.
The R134a, in this state, enters the CONDENSOR.
In the CONDENSOR, the outside airflow, either being drawn by the electric cooling fans,
or flowing through the radiator as you drive, removes the HEAT from the R134a,
that it absorbed when it passed through the Evaporator.
This effectively makes the GAS change from a low density to a HIGH Density gas(CONDENSATION).
This works much like a Intercooler for a Turbo.
Cooling a gas makes the gas higher in density.
This also changes the pressure from moderate to LOW.
A higher density gas takes up less space than a lower density gas.
Now the gas is then drawn into the Compressor, to be pressurized, liquified, and then back around the AC Route again.

Now than you understand how the AC system works, troubleshooting it will be much easier.


--------------------
Pete...

2004 Mercury Marauder 300A
Black Clearcoat/Dark Charcoal LEATHER
DOB 10/31/2003
DOP 1/2/2004
www.mercurymarauder.net

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eric1
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charge hold new
#320718 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/18/03 12:41 AM

well.. it only took 1/2 of a an 11 oz can ... the can comprised 8.5 oz oil and 2.5 oz of r134a .. so .. haynes manual recommends 20cc of oil .. and i think 10cc is about an oz a cc is about a ml is about a mg (of H2O).

So .. um .. 8.5 oz of oil seems like way too much for the system anyway.

Anyway < I put a can of r134a in .. i see pressures on the low side of about 70 or so pounds although that is in the red range of my kit indicator but .. it is not a 95 ford design application either.

So , I put my thermometer in frount of the air on max ac and i get it down to about 59 without holding it there more than several minutes. Just level 2 on the fan ..

I understand ac should blow out something colder , but i want to see ifit holds charge through the week at just this partial level ? .. if it maintains being cold then i'll stick another 12oz can of r134a in .. if not then i think i have to find the leak , right ?



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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JasonL
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Reged: 03/10/03
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Re: charge hold new
#320775 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 01:27 AM

Quote:

Now, the parts are named this for their function...
The COMPRESSOR takes the R134a and compresses it, turning it into a LIQUID, and pumping it through the AC Line.
The LIQUID, under HIGH PRESSURE cannot be forced through the Evaporator quickly, so it ACCUMULATES in the Accumulator(or Dryer).
From the Accumulator, the R134a flows into the EVAPORATOR.
The Evaporator is called so because, high pressure R134a enters as LIQUID and leaves as a GAS (evaporates).
The blower fan inside your car draws hot air through the evaporator
and the liquid R134a removes the heat from the air, making the air cold.
The high pressure liquid then turns to a high pressure GAS (EVAPORATING) from the change in temperature.
This GAS then passes through the ORIFICE, which regulates the flow of the gas.
Once through the Orifice, there is a change in pressure.
Now the R134a is a MODERATE PRESSURE HEATED gas.
The R134a, in this state, enters the CONDENSOR.
In the CONDENSOR, the outside airflow, either being drawn by the electric cooling fans,
or flowing through the radiator as you drive, removes the HEAT from the R134a,
that it absorbed when it passed through the Evaporator.
This effectively makes the GAS change from a low density to a HIGH Density gas(CONDENSATION).
This works much like a Intercooler for a Turbo.
Cooling a gas makes the gas higher in density.
This also changes the pressure from moderate to LOW.
A higher density gas takes up less space than a lower density gas.
Now the gas is then drawn into the Compressor, to be pressurized, liquified, and then back around the AC Route again.

Now than you understand how the AC system works, troubleshooting it will be much easier.





Wow, you just confused me. The way I was taught, and according to the "Ford self study book" in front of me, it goes more like this(for the fixed oriface type): The compressor compresses the refrigerant, it leaves the compressor as a high pressure high temp gas and enters the condensor, the "cooler" air passing over the condensor turns it into a high pressure high temp liquid, it then passes through the oriface tube and due to the restriction turns into a low pressure low temp liquid, it then enters the evaporator, the warmer cabin air or outside air (depending on max a/c or a/c setting), passes over the evaporator and then turns it into a mixture of mostly low pressure low temp gas with in some cases still liquid left, it then goes into the accumulator/drier to remove any remaining liquid before going back into the compressor.

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eric1
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Re: charge hold - 55 deg !!! new
#321820 (Re: JasonL) 06/18/03 10:04 PM

Well I just threw another 12 oz can of Primus into the system's low side ( takes about oh 15 to 20 min or so with your ac on max and fan on high ) .. and the thermometers in the vehicle had it at 55 deg and the hygrometer had 39%.

I would say 55 deg is pretty respectable.

The pressure according to the dial on the self fill kit said about 70 psi (low pressure intake).

Well it's wednesday about 615pm , i think i put the last can in about 4 something pm. Lets see how long it remains cold for ...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Kremithefrog
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Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#321822 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 10:09 PM

i removed condensor, it's easy if you have the ford a/c line removal tools. I'll sell u my old condensor for real cheap (should be fine, compressor leaked but condensor was fine) though of course no warranty on it. and i had my car tested for the leak for like $15.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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eepals
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Re: charge hold - 55 deg !!! new
#321852 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 10:48 PM

You should get about 40 degrees out of the center vent on a properly charged system.

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eric1
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well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#321929 (Re: Kremithefrog) 06/19/03 12:00 AM

i removed condensor, it's easy if you have the ford a/c line removal tools. I'll sell u my old condensor for real cheap (should be fine, compressor leaked but condensor was fine) though of course no warranty on it. and i had my car tested for the leak for like $15.

--------------------
IF YOU HAD BEEN READING THE POSTS .. you would have seen:
1) The condensor has already been replaced with a salvage condensor
2) I have a 30 day warranty on my replacement condensor
3) I had my card tested for leak by Ford for about $60 .

Why are you not reading the history ?

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
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Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#322122 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/19/03 03:09 AM

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
Originally posted by eric1:
Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.




Okay,

Here is an overview of your AC system in case you wondered how it all worked...

Compressor -> Accumulator(Dryer) -> Evaporator -> Orifice -> Condensor -> Compressor.

Everything between the Compressor and the Orifice is HIGH PRESSURE.
Everything between the Orifice and the Compressor is LOW Pressure.
The Orifice is a very small tube, surrounded by a very fine filter.
This is the only part responsible for the HIGH/LOW side pressures,
and can cause a lot of problems if it is clogged with metal shavings
from a worn out and poorly lubricated compressor.






Compressor -> Condenser -> Accumulator -> orifice (Or expansion Valve) -> Evaporator -> Compressor

Compressor - Low pressure Cold gas compressed to High pressure hot gas
Condenser - Hot gas "condensed" to high pressure liquid
Accumulator - Gives room for expansion, contraction, sort of a reservoir - can also filter and dry. Some systems have separate accumulators and filter/driers.
Orifice : High Pressure liquid to low pressure liquid
Evaporator : low pressure liquid, boiled by heat in air, becomes low pressure gas
Back to compressor to start cycle over.

FWIW, I think road-runner knew this (IMHO) and just typed it in the wrong sequence. The rest of his statements are absolutely corrrect.

AS RR said, every thing from the compressor to the orifice is high pressure when running. When the system is off, the pressure equalizes in the system and will be at a pressure that corrresponds to the saturated pressure of 134a for the ambient temperature.

--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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eric1
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charge gone again new
#324763 (Re: eepals) 06/21/03 03:39 PM

Well - Umm.. it was too good to be true.. it stayed cold about 2 days then it was luke warm ..

I recall being able to pull the fittings apart even after I had fully pushed them together and visually verified the springs were outside the fitting (what a [censored] of a pain to get your hand and that tool and wiggle the aluminum pipe ).

This could be the problem that the salvage condensor connector springs aren't fully sealing - of course the I havent UV checked the replacement condensor yet .. but I suspect the connector point .. what a pain in the arse...

Pepboys never did call me back in 9 days indicating that the replacement new condensor was in so I got my $151.31 (inc. tax) back --- not too much of a surprise there - but my answering machine may have been full for a few days ..


I am going to start this mother up and see if the compressor kicks on with ac on ... I suspect not , it doesnt come on when there is insufficient pressure.
The result is - as expected, no compressor turning and no radiator fan comes on. Next week its going tobe in the 90's and won't be fun as I use the car during the day for my job.


I guess I should put a can of UV in the thing and see what I can see with my little LED penlight and special yellow goggle-glasses.


Maybe I should vacuum the system and refill it and see what happens before putting UV in .. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm dumping a lot of money into this .. but I would be dumping more money to someone who knew what they were doing .. and I don't have any to spare really.



****************** I wonder if NOT vacuuming the system for 20 min is what has caused something to malfunction.



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Kremithefrog
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Re: well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#324853 (Re: eric1) 06/21/03 06:54 PM

Originally posted by eric1:

--------------------
IF YOU HAD BEEN READING THE POSTS .. you would have seen:
1) The condensor has already been replaced with a salvage condensor
2) I have a 30 day warranty on my replacement condensor
3) I had my card tested for leak by Ford for about $60 .

Why are you not reading the history ?



sorry i read u'r post and quickly typed something that I thought mite helped. i read that you had it tested by ford and i put how much i paid to have mine tested to let you know ford dealers rip you off and let others now.
i was trying to offer you a cheap fix if you needed a condensor. sorry i'll make sure to not try to help you again.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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eric1
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Reged: 01/06/03
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Re: well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#324889 (Re: Kremithefrog) 06/21/03 08:03 PM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


sorry i read u'r post and quickly typed something that I thought mite helped. i read that you had it tested by ford and i put how much i paid to have mine tested to let you know ford dealers rip you off and let others now.
i was trying to offer you a cheap fix if you needed a condensor. sorry i'll make sure to not try to help you again.




I'm sorry man ,.. just very frustrated by this whole pain in the ass.. I just typed in a very long reply and lost that too... so double the frustration...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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ok .. i put the UV charge in new
#325406 (Re: eric1) 06/22/03 01:35 PM

and then i took out my $14 LED UV light source with yellow glasses last night and looked around and low and behold -
there was a large dripped area on the left of the radiator protector at bottom cowling ( you know the one with the several star screw-bolts of which you probably are missing a couple) . Also the little fold down datch in this cowling had several drips of it .

It must be coming from the compressor OR the stupid spring fittings . I speculate the connector spring fittings .. if I was able to pull 1 apart after it was thought to have been connected, that can't be a good connection when your talking several hundred PSI going through there.

But jacking the car in a crowded garage is no fun and you can't do it outside because, you need it dark to see the UV dye glow.

I hate to do it but I beleive I must do it tonight because I only have 30 days return on the salvage condensor, and if it is because of the spring connectors ( I beleive one of which is on the condensor - yes - One is on the condensor and one on the car - so the thing to determine is wether it is the spring connector leak on the car or on the condensor or both! )


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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kiran
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Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 18
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#326287 (Re: tomtoursvt) 06/23/03 03:23 PM

Originally posted by tomtoursvt:
Are you sure it's not a leak in one of the hoses.
If it blew cold air out for 5 days and then got warmer, then it sounds like you may have a slow leak like I do. The hoses Ford uses are p.o.s..
I put some dye in with the coolant and noticed a bunch of pin size holes on the top a/c hose.





LEAK OR COOLANT LOW ????

MY MYSTIQUE 99 WITH 22,000 MILES, HAS AC PROBLEMS.
AM TAKING TO DEALER IN TWO DAYS BUT QUESTION THAT I NEED TO RESOLVE IS WHETHER IT WILL BE COVERED BY MY FORD EXTRA CARE WARRANTY??
FORD DEALER SAYS THAT: IF IT A LEAK, THEY WILL COVER IT AFTER I PAY THE DEDUCTIBLE $100.
IT IS NOT A LEAK, I WILL PAY ABOUT 70 FOR A CHECKUP AND FILLUP OF COOLANT.
KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS SO CANNOT ARGUE WITH THEM.
HOW DO WE KNOW IF THERE IS LEAK OR NOT?
IS THERE A GENERAL PROBLEM ABOUT THE LEAK IN SEAL???
WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INPUT FROM ALL YOU KNOWLEDGABLE GUYS.
THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH.


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eric1
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Posts: 70
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22k cant be a leak unless.. new
#326822 (Re: kiran) 06/23/03 10:05 PM

if you only have 22k miles .. it cant be a leak UNLESS the car has gone through something like off roading that it wassnt designed for .. it must be coolant low ... but it could be a leak if say .. it was a friday or a monday when they put your car together and it is lacking inferior workmanship

Anyway , the dealer should fix it with that low of mileage..
but it sucks that you have to still shell out $100 to do it !





--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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condensor change new
#326907 (Re: eric1) 06/23/03 11:46 PM

You must replace the 2 O-ring seals (1 is green) -
and in my case the springs are bad too ..

and the tech said to bring them down so he could match them .. because the kit has too much stuff init\

Well i have some orings .. but .. the spring .. that is something i wont be able to match so if i have to get the damn spring i might as well buy the o rings from them too .. ;(

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
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vaccuumm new
#329793 (Re: eric1) 06/26/03 10:59 AM

nobady saiyd anything about the vaccuum application as far as where do i do it..
obviously i do it with the engine off...


do i apply it at the low side and the high side ?

or is just the low side what is desired

(20 to 30 minutes) ...


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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Posts: 70
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Re: vaccuumm new
#330513 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 12:37 AM

well i tried vaccuuming the low side.. with my hand vaccuum pump ..

i dont think i want to do anything on the high side ---
well im going to go get another can of dye i guess and see what happens again .. by the way , the orings were different prices at one ford dealer .. one guy was kind of being non helpful and wanted $4 a piece ! another guy at another dealer was very helpful and they were 52 cents a piece (you need 4 ) ..



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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Re: vaccuumm new
#330599 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 02:16 AM

for some reason i think the schraeder valve is of a 1 way design ... because when i connected my freon adding hose to a can and i drilled a hole in the empty can and inserted my mity vac hand vaccuum pump to it i am able to get about 25 psi of vaccuum ( i think thats the unit .. or maybe its inches of mercury .. ..)

anyway , i added a can of freon .. and then i tried adding oil .. i had a partly used can which i tipped upside down hoping as the compressor kicked on and off the oil would be added into the system .. it's hard to tell by hand weight feel if 20 cc got in there or not ... i suppose i could dump some more $$ into a can of r 134a that has 2 oz of oil in it ... but i really need to get the can of UV .. so i can see if this mother is going to leak again after i replaced the o-rings ...

againg , i only have 30 days to return the salvage part back to the yard ..i suspect i will be surpised in the next day or 2 by what i f ind .. as the system is now, it is half charged and it does blow cold .. but not very cold..

incidentally i struck up a conversation with a guy getting some ac stuff in the store and he said R12, the real freyon ,the type of stuff used in refrigerators ,can get much colder than r134a ...

anyways.. i ll keep u updated with whether this nice system maintains its self and maintains its coolness for a long time...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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RoadRunner
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Re: vaccuumm new
#331104 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 03:02 PM

You have to evacuate the system with an Evacuator.
The evacuator will reach at least 30 in/lbs of of vacuum in the system
which is enough to rid the system of any moisture.
The vacuum has to stay at least for 30 minutes to insure there are NO LEAKS.
If the system will NOT hold the vacuum then there is a leak, and the leak needs to be repaired.

Using a HAND VAC PUMP will not accomplish this.

Shreader valve is a spring loaded valve.
It is either open or closed.
There aren't any one way, or anyways to it.
If you don't press it down far enough, it won't open fully.

--------------------
Pete...

2004 Mercury Marauder 300A
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eric1
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Re: vaccuumm new
#331553 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/27/03 08:11 PM

Well .. thanks for the info on the vaccuum amount and source .

You indicate it can't be a hand vac, and that it must be 30 in per # maintained for 30 minutes and that the system must hold this otherwise there is a leak. And if there is a leak, the way to detect it (this info you didn't provide in your latest post) is :

1) air pressure and a sniffer ( Expensive shop equipment)
2) UV dye added to R134A and a UV LED pen light ( DIY cheap
method to get by for most larger leaks )

I understand the hand vac is not a 3/4 horse motor with reciprocating piston and valve so the vacuum amount is less, but none-the-less , it is vaccuum and some must be better than none.

Well when I did hook up the mity-vac, it did hold the 25psi for like 20 min.. I left it and when I came back it was the same vaccuum, so I imagine it heald on the low side.

But you didn't mention anything about using the low side in favor of the high side schraeder valve .... or what is it exactly that the occasion arrises to use the high side port for ?

You check the pressure differentials between the 2 to see if they are according to spec ?_

I have heard people talking about 'pulling ' the stuff f through with vaccuum.. is this what u do to fill the system with the engine off is apply vaccuum at the high side and open a can of R134A applied to the low side ?




--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
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Re: vaccuumm new
#331846 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 11:59 PM

Originally posted by eric1:
Well .. thanks for the info on the vaccuum amount and source .

You indicate it can't be a hand vac, and that it must be 30 in per # maintained for 30 minutes and that the system must hold this otherwise there is a leak. And if there is a leak, the way to detect it (this info you didn't provide in your latest post) is :

1) air pressure and a sniffer ( Expensive shop equipment)
2) UV dye added to R134A and a UV LED pen light ( DIY cheap
method to get by for most larger leaks )

I understand the hand vac is not a 3/4 horse motor with reciprocating piston and valve so the vacuum amount is less, but none-the-less , it is vaccuum and some must be better than none.




Some is not better than none. 25 inches does not remove any moisture. you must get down below 29 inches(mercury) before any moisture will boil off inside and can be removed. 25 inches also leaves quite a lot of air in the system, which will create high pressure in the condenser and reduce the performance significantly of the evaporator.

Quote:

Well when I did hook up the mity-vac, it did hold the 25psi for like 20 min.. I left it and when I came back it was the same vaccuum, so I imagine it heald on the low side.

But you didn't mention anything about using the low side in favor of the high side schraeder valve .... or what is it exactly that the occasion arrises to use the high side port for ?

You check the pressure differentials between the 2 to see if they are according to spec ?_

I have heard people talking about 'pulling ' the stuff f through with vaccuum.. is this what u do to fill the system with the engine off is apply vaccuum at the high side and open a can of R134A applied to the low side ?






The vacuum can be pulled from high or low side, doesn't matter. Compressor off. vacuum is in inches of mercury. 29.9 will get you a dehydrating (Removes water)vacuum. If there is no leaks, but some liquid water, the pressure will still increase somewhat as the water turns to vapor. That's why at least a half hour is necessary. Gives time for all water to vaporize and be removed. After pulling the vacuum, letting it sit and seeing if the pressure rises is a good leak test. Bear in mind, some joints leak under pressure but not under vacuum and vice a versa too. While under vacuum, you add r-134a (liquid, can upside down) while NOT running to low side. Not sure of exact weight, but cans are 12 oz. and the car should have a label saying how much is needed. Use a scale to weigh cans full, then empty. After putting in as much liquid as the system will take (without going over full charge weight), the compressor should be runnable. Add GAS (Can upright) to low side, weighing amount put in, until you have added the correct amount of r-134a. A/C should work great.

There are other ways to do this, but this is the correct way. Other methods may lead to overcharging and damaged components.

Pulling a vacuum, BTW, just means hooking up the vacuum pump and removing the air and moisture from a system. You are "pulling" them out of the system.





--------------------
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Re: vaccuumm new
#331853 (Re: eric1) 06/28/03 12:08 AM

Originally posted by eric1:


incidentally i struck up a conversation with a guy getting some ac stuff in the store and he said R12, the real freyon ,the type of stuff used in refrigerators ,can get much colder than r134a ...




Not true. My company (CArrier A/C) has replaced r-12 with r-134 in our industrial units. They do the same temperatures. I just left a job here we make -20F Brine.

Freon is a Brand name (DuPont's) for r-12
Allied Signal R-12 : Genetron
Carrier: Carrene 12

R-134a is SUVA (DuPont)

Refrigerators don't usually use r-12, they use r-22 which is now replaced with r-134a or other refrigerants (r-410, others).

Most window units in your home are r-22.

The guy getting A/C stuff must have limited experience.

Now, if he said that an R-12 car system that is converted to r-134a isn't as cold, he would be right. R-12 is slightl;y denser than r-134a so the orifice sizes, amount of refrigerant needed and some other little details make a conversion job inefficient. For instance, the compressor needs to run a little faster for r-134a than r-12. In new cars, pulley sizes are changed. In retrofits, it isn't changed (usually) and the system can not cool well at engine idle.

FYI for everyone.







--------------------
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NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
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dbird
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Re: vaccuumm new
#331859 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/28/03 12:15 AM

if you are pretty sure you dont have a leak this is what i did... the wires going to the high side cut off valve(the insulation came off and the wires crossed, so the valve would not cut off.. high pressure and the high pressure service valve blew.... i ordered another valve for $20 from the dealer and then went to auto zone and bought two cans of R-134A and a $19.00 service hose with a small meter on it to put some r-134 in it.. I have an old vacuum pump for the old R-12 system but it does not fit the new R134 hoses... so i just put some freon in the low pressure side and then let the R-134 blow out the high pressure service valve..... this got the air out... i then kept adding the freon in until the compressor finally came on and started pumping..... in no time one can was empty... i then attached the second can and it continued to charge up and the compressor stopped clicking off/on/off/on..........
just about finished the second can and it seemed like it had enough freon in it as the inside of the car was cold as can be expected.... that was about three months ago.. so far no problems... still works pretty good.....

when the old freon blew out the valve it did hot have any oil with it.. i checked around and did not find any on the lining of the hood or other engine parts so i did not have to worry about any oil loss.......


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Re: vaccuumm new
#332041 (Re: dbird) 06/28/03 02:49 AM

Originally posted by dbird:
if you are pretty sure you dont have a leak this is what i did... the wires going to the high side cut off valve(the insulation came off and the wires crossed, so the valve would not cut off.. high pressure and the high pressure service valve blew.... i ordered another valve for $20 from the dealer and then went to auto zone and bought two cans of R-134A and a $19.00 service hose with a small meter on it to put some r-134 in it.. I have an old vacuum pump for the old R-12 system but it does not fit the new R134 hoses... so i just put some freon in the low pressure side and then let the R-134 blow out the high pressure service valve..... this got the air out... i then kept adding the freon in until the compressor finally came on and started pumping..... in no time one can was empty... i then attached the second can and it continued to charge up and the compressor stopped clicking off/on/off/on..........
just about finished the second can and it seemed like it had enough freon in it as the inside of the car was cold as can be expected.... that was about three months ago.. so far no problems... still works pretty good.....

when the old freon blew out the valve it did hot have any oil with it.. i checked around and did not find any on the lining of the hood or other engine parts so i did not have to worry about any oil loss.......





FWIW, you broke the law letting the refrigerant intentionally vent to atmosphere. If caught, you could have a $50,000 Fine. Plus, if someone turned you in, I believe there is a bounty/reward. I doubt you will caught(I hope your not), but just wanted to make clear that your way is illegal and environmentally unsound and unnecessary. A 6 yr. old in Fla was cited for running an illegal business, ie: lemonade stand and was turned in for no reward by an irate neighbor. Imagine if that neighbor seen you and turned you in for a reward.

While your way works, so does kidnapping a certified A/C repairman and forcing him (or her) to repair your car at gunpoint. It works, but is illegal.

Second, while you put a usable amount of r-134a in the system, had you accidently overcharged it, you could of had a system rupture or relief valve blow off. If liquid r-134a contacts skin or eyes, you can be severly burned (Yes, burned by cold) or blinded. If someone on this board does this and does not stop adding r-134a at the right time, they could be injured. It is not in our best interest to recommend unsafe and dangerous ways of repairing our cars. This is like telling someone to climb under a jacked up vehicle without using jackstands. The danger of the car falling off the jack is high and just because someone did it without the car killing them does not make it a good way to do it. I am not preaching- nevermind, I AM preaching, but I think it is worthwhile to discourage unsafe and/or illegal practices. The site has a street racing discussion ban for this same reason.



--------------------
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eric1
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AFter charging with UV-134a new
#332302 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/28/03 12:33 PM

So .. the performance of the system is sub par ..
I can start it .. and it blows cool .. but not cold ..
perhaps this is all because I have not vacuumed the system

1)
for 30 minutes
2)
at at least ~ 30 in. Hg

(Mercury or quicksilver[from the Roman god Mercury], metallic chemical element; symbol Hg [Lat. hydrargyrum=liquid silver]; at. no. 80; at. wt. 200.59; m.p. -38.842°C; b.p. 356.58°C; sp. gr. 13.55 at 20°C; valence +1 or +2. Mercury was discovered in antiquity, and was known to the ancient Chinese, Hindus, and Egyptians, but was not recognized as an element. It was used as a medicine by Paracelsus. It was first recognized as a chemical element (in the modern sense) by A. L. Lavoisier about the end of the 18th cent.

[ Sorry about the above but I wanted to verify that Hg was the proper element symbol] - as long as we're all getting
advanced discussion regarding AC, why not !?

And since we're learning things , why not the vacuum
discourse as well ?


vacuum, theoretically, space without matter in it. A perfect vacuum has never been obtained; the best man-made vacuums contain less than 100,000 gas molecules per cc, compared to about 30 billion billion (30×1018) molecules for air at sea level. The most nearly perfect vacuum exists in intergalactic space, where it is estimated that on the average there is less than one molecule per cubic meter. In ancient times the belief that “nature abhors a vacuum” was held widely and persisted without serious question until the late 16th and early 17th cent., when the experimental observations of Galileo and the Italian physicist Evangelista Torricelli demonstrated its essential fallacy. Torricelli obtained a nearly perfect vacuum (Torricellian vacuum) in his mercury barometer. A common but incorrect belief is that a vacuum causes “suction.” Actually the apparent suction caused by a vacuum is the pressure of the atmosphere tending to rush in and fill the unoccupied space. There are various methods for producing a vacuum, and several different kinds of vacuum pumps. have been devised for removing the molecules of gas or vapor from a confined space. In the rotary oil-sealed pump a rotor turning in a cylinder allows gas to enter through an inlet valve from a space to be evacuated and then pushes it through an outlet valve into the atmosphere. In the oil or mercury diffusion pump, gas enters the pump through an inlet and is then swept toward an outlet by heavy, fast-moving oil or mercury vapor molecules. The outlet is connected to a rotary pump that expels the gas into the atmosphere. A cryogenic pump removes gas from a container by condensing the gas molecules on an extremely cold surface in the container. An ion pump consists of a chamber containing a source of electrons that are used to bombard gas molecules from a container to be evacuated. Collisions between the electrons and gas molecules ionize the molecules, causing them to be drawn to, and held by, a collector in the pump. The first vacuum pump was invented by the German physicist Otto von Guerricke in 1650. There are many practical applications of vacuums in industry and scientific research, e.g., in vacuum distillation, vacuum processing of food, in devices such as the vacuum tube, vacuum bottle, and barometer, and in research machines.

3]
I observed with my UV pen light and goggles last night that there is trace r134A around the seal area , I can see a ring around the spring, but this could be from the previous UV charge as stuff spilled out when I pulled the connector apart to replace the O-rings -
As others' have posted, the performance of the system is sub-par without the removal of air and water vapor from the closed system -- until I have eliminated the most obvious
methods (vacuuming system as part of the procedure when a part is replaced) I shouldn't presume the system is good.

I haven't done anything at the high side port of the system,
in fact the cap was missing & I have it taped up with electrical tape. Is this bad ? Does it need the special cap to be able to expel at certain times ?

So, I have this old refrigerator pump -- It is more like a 1/2 HP motor belt driving what looks like a air compressor cylinder (they made them like this in the 50's I believe - the newer ones have a more efficient rotary pump) ..

I will play with it and dump tons of time into making fittings to be able to suck the system dry .. because, this must be the last line of defense this system has in not working ! Boy I'm learning alot, don't have much of a life, but just really making headway on making a mess.




--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
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Re: AFter charging with UV-134a new
#332498 (Re: eric1) 06/28/03 06:10 PM

This is what we use at Carrier for LARGE machinery:



You can read about it here: Vacuum Pump

Robinaire makes lighter duty vac. Pumps and those are used more by automotive and residential repair people.



--------------------
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KurtD
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Re: AFter charging with UV-134a new
#332622 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/28/03 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Contouraholic:
This is what we use at Carrier for LARGE machinery:


{Image & Link}


Robinaire makes lighter duty vac. Pumps and those are used more by automotive and residential repair people.






Torr! Torr! Torr!? or Tora! Tora! Tora!?

Where I worked, we had high vacuum deposition systems and used high vacuum pumps like this one to test the chamber plumbing for leaks. It was neat to connect one of these to a glass bell jar with a little dish of H2O in it and watch the water start to boil, at room temp, as the vacuum approached pressures of only a few microns (0.001 mm).

Water vapor is one of the toughest things to pump and on humid days, pump-down times lengthened significantly when working in uncontrolled, high humidity areas.

If you can get your hands on an old, working refrigerator compressor (watch out, some really, really old systems used Ammonia or SO2 for the refrigerant gas), you can use it as a A/C vacuum pump as long as you squirt a little refrigerant oil into it from time to time (use PAG oil for R-134a systems). They'll pull enough vacuum to dry the system out.


--------------------
'95 Contour SE, MTX, Champagne
'03 EB Expedition, Med Wedgewood Blue

Edited by KurtD (06/28/03 09:03 PM)

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Re: AFter charging with UV-134a new
#332785 (Re: KurtD) 06/28/03 11:41 PM

We use these high capacity pumps because the systems we work on hold as much as 20,000 lbs (Twenty Thousand) of refrigerant.

We don't use 12oz cans. For the large systems a tractor trailer tank truck pulls up. For our "Smaller" systems we use 1 tonners (2000 lbs) and for our little stuff we use 125 lb capacity cylinders. Some places you can't get a truck to or get the 1 ton cylinders in so we use lots of 125 lber's.

I get my refrigerant for personal use from the "leftover" condensed out of the 125lbr's.

--------------------
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eric1
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Attempting to get the Leanard to pull enuf vacuum new
#332889 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/29/03 01:51 AM

well i went to home depot, bought some flex tube that said 170psi rated (yes i know suck and blow have different affects on materials) .. anyway , i didnt see the tube cave in... i hooked up an automotive vacuum guage with tapered end to the tube and it was a 3/16" ID tube and kind of heated it to open it enuf to slip it onto hte copper tube of the fridge pump where I had hack sawed it free from the condensor/evaporator unit.

Anyway, after 15 min or so of quiet operation from the 1/8HP motor and pump built like a tank, the best i could get was not even 24 inches of vacuum ... This surely is not 29.9 and therefore wouldnt do the job according to the guy from NJ ....

My other idea was to use the intake of an old 3.5 HP b&s lawnmower engine not in use .. to use it's vacuum on the carburetor side to see if it gives more suck than the fridge pump ... what do you think ,?

Do I have a leak in my little rig .. will an internal combustion engine give more vacuum than the fridge pump ?

Should I get a rotary pump off a newer fridge or dehumidifier or air conditioner ?



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Re: Attempting to get the Leanard to pull enuf vac new
#332967 (Re: eric1) 06/29/03 03:23 AM

JC Whitney has anj air operated "pump" (uses an ejector, a form of orifice) that is cheap $24 IIRC. This will do it.

Most recip or rotary compressors for refrigeration duty will not pull below 25in. Hg and a B&S lawn mower won't either.

It is difficult to get below 25" Hg without a purpose built vacuum device.

--------------------
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Re: AFter charging with UV-134a new
#332985 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/29/03 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Contouraholic:


I get my refrigerant for personal use from the "leftover" condensed out of the 125lbr's.




I wish I could get my paws on just a few lbs of R-22. After 15 or so years since its last charge goose, my home central A/C looks like it could do with just a little topping off. The sight glass has gotten a little "bubbly" this year and I don't feel like dealing with a local A/C contractor telling me "Aw, you should get this system replaced." (yeah, for $3-$4K) It's been working fine for the last 25 years - if it ain't broke, don't replace it.

I used to be able to get it from work (30 pounder leftovers), but they can't buy it anymore 'cuz no one's a certified A/C tech there and they've farmed out the A/C service to Elliot Lewis.


--------------------
'95 Contour SE, MTX, Champagne
'03 EB Expedition, Med Wedgewood Blue

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eric1
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jc whitney vac new
#333274 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/29/03 02:32 PM

cheapest i saw was $229 .

http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=188974&FID=3614&BQ=jcw2

perhaps i need to search a little more...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
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Re: jc whitney vac new
#333354 (Re: eric1) 06/29/03 04:05 PM

I checked and was surprised. I had seen this for 24.99 on sale in the JCW catalog:



Quote:

MINI VACUUM PUMP

* Smaller and lighter than conventional electric or air-powered vacuum pumps.
* Removes moisture from air conditioning system before adding refrigerant.

Rugged metal housing. Completely maintenance-free: venturi-type pump has no moving parts, needs no oil. Requires 4.5-cfm/90-psi air supply. Rated 1.3 cfm. 5"W x 5-3/8"H x 6"D, 4.1 lbs. Produces 29.75" Hg vacuum. Includes instructions.




It's 67.99, a bit more than I think one should spend for an occasional job.



--------------------
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Re: jc whitney vac new
#333809 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/30/03 02:24 AM

that same thing goes for about $14 to $25 on ebay .. without fail..

do a search for vacuum pump

here's one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2331633034&category=11704

here's another

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=2421476592

this is a simple venturi effect device I think .. you supply high pressure with your probably at least 3/4 hp compressor 90psi ..

this is a simple device like a black box ..

I think all it does is have a pass through of your pressure and takes the vacuum off a venturi effect (like in a carb) where the rushing air passing buy pulls air with it (suction) out a side tube which must be where your vacuum hose would connect ...

someone could make one .. but for $10 andprobably $8 shipping .. it's worth it ( IF you have an air compressor that can run for 30 min with out overheating -- that's a strong system / big tank .. and 90 psi is nothing to sneeze at ) .--- this is a real half assed method of pulling vacuum ( very inefficient) .


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
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ebay venturi vacuum new
#333822 (Re: eric1) 06/30/03 02:29 AM

just wanted to say that the cheaper one (link i posted)--

states the max vacuum is
28.3" of Mercury at Sea Level @ 90 Psi

which .. is not enough according to contourholic ? ..

=but they don't say if u run it higher how much more vacuum u get :

Air pressure - 75 PSI Min.,180 PSI Max.

Air consumption - 4.2 CFM @ 90PSI

4.2 cubic feet a minute sounds like a twin cylinder pump of at least 1HP or so ... I know mine is that and get's pretty damn hot after about 10 or 15 min.

if your doing it once a year i guess it could be a viable option .. BUT i would like to see them state 29.9 " Hg for whatever higher pressure ... we do enough guess work .. leaving that to chance or guess is just another variable in a world already overfull of them ...

--------------------
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gdub520
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/12/01
Posts: 2061
Loc: antelope valley, soCal
Re: ebay venturi vacuum new
#335326 (Re: eric1) 07/01/03 05:23 AM

man...dont mean any disrespect or anything but with all teh time u've spent on this and the money for the various tools and parts, couldn't u have taken your car somewhere by now that can actually fix it properly???

this has been going on for awhile...it seems from your posts alot of what u're doing is taking shots in the dark to repair it

i feel your pain, my ac went dead too...i recharged with the r134 kit plus gauge from walmart...it was cold for a few hrs but when i drove it around later to test it, i could smell the refridgerant burning and hear a squealing noise almost like when the ps pump has run dry..

so like i said, no dis intended but i'd be totally nuts by now if i'd worked on my ac as much as u have with no real results

--------------------
99 expedition eddie bauer, 5.4 v8, k&n drop-in, 3" magnaflow catback and gas mileage that makes the contour look like a hybrid

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
the long enduring saga of persistence, i am fighti new
#335943 (Re: gdub520) 07/01/03 07:50 PM

fighting the good fight, and learning about AC and about the car as I go .. I have a garage and pay taxes so I might as well use it .. if i lived in an apartment and had nobody around with a garage it makes a lot of sense to go have it done..

and that's the whole purpose of this board so that others can resolve their issues ---

I have not seen one post yet that said anything about a precise detail that was performed by work that someone paid someone else to do ..

this is a DIY forum - not a 'have someone else do it for you' situation .. it is about individualism and personalization ...

anyway - your right, it's high time i give it up and get the damn thing cool for the summer ..

some of us really arent in the financial luxury to allow for that however ...

i hope u dont give up as easily on things of more importance ... (what could be more important than AC in yor car in the summer ? )

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: ebay venturi vacuum new
#336236 (Re: eric1) 07/02/03 01:07 AM

Originally posted by eric1:
just wanted to say that the cheaper one (link i posted)--

states the max vacuum is
28.3" of Mercury at Sea Level @ 90 Psi

which .. is not enough according to contourholic ? ..

=but they don't say if u run it higher how much more vacuum u get :

Air pressure - 75 PSI Min.,180 PSI Max.

Air consumption - 4.2 CFM @ 90PSI

4.2 cubic feet a minute sounds like a twin cylinder pump of at least 1HP or so ... I know mine is that and get's pretty damn hot after about 10 or 15 min.

if your doing it once a year i guess it could be a viable option .. BUT i would like to see them state 29.9 " Hg for whatever higher pressure ... we do enough guess work .. leaving that to chance or guess is just another variable in a world already overfull of them ...




If you have A/C Gauge set, you can pull the vacuum in stages. Run the compressor (for the air powered VP) for 10 minutes. Close valves, rerst the air compressor, the run again. Will take longer, but it sounds as if you have some time and a place to mess around.

--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
pby`` new
#337551 (Re: Contouraholic) 07/03/03 01:05 AM

well , i broke my own rules and went to pby -- because it was available and i fealt like it was someone i could trust..

well they found a faulty schraeder valve .. which i found the high pres. side one to be leaking pressure when i popped the hood after leaving the parking lot ...

i cant explain it .. . it wasnt doing it before but then again i never pressurized the system like they did...

well.. we'll see iuf i the replacement of that will do anything


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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kiran
New CEG'er

Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 18
Re: 22k cant be a leak unless.. new
#338892 (Re: eric1) 07/04/03 04:36 PM

Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. Anyway, took the car to dealer and they told me they have put in a dye to detect a leak. they will check next time I take her for a oil change. they also added some coolant, so its cool now but I still hear the clicking sound which I was told by a friend - could the gear of the system. SHOULD I TAKE HER BACK TO THEM?

Have paid for coolant and oil change $130 including taxes, now if I take her back, they will charge the deductible $100.

should I wait or complain?

Thanks for all the help.

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: 22k cant be a leak unless.. new
#341507 (Re: kiran) 07/08/03 03:04 AM

Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. Anyway, took the car to dealer and they told me they have put in a dye to detect a leak. they will check next time I take her for a oil change. they also added some coolant, so its cool now but I still hear the clicking sound which I was told by a friend - could the gear of the system. SHOULD I TAKE HER BACK TO THEM?

Have paid for coolant and oil change $130 including taxes, now if I take her back, they will charge the deductible $100.

should I wait or complain?

Thanks for all the help.
---------------------------------
u mean they added some refrigerant ( R134a ) or they added some coolant (antifreeze - ethyline glycol) ?

the clickisg sound ofd the compressor coming on and off with a low charge in the system ( 1 12 oz can or less ) as i hear the r134a capacity is 28 oz.

you could buy the $25 kit at walmart to add more r134a .. but u may have a leak ( the UV dye ) needs to be added and visually checked over ..
they also use a pressure test (air ) - this im familiar with at pepboys ...
the test at pepboys for ac diagnostic which may have 20 items they test is about $26 bucks !

there are a lot of opctions .. and it seems the ford dealer is gonna keep asking u to bend over so they can insert the vaseline while they bang u for that $100 deductable as many times as they can get it ? u always hear ' we have to make money somehow' and a 'business doesnt stay in business by giving away free service or goods' - its true .. maybe one time to keep you coming back but they wont continue spending time on you without something in return ...



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
2 questions - 1)OVERCHARGE? 2) ADDING OIL new
#341516 (Re: eric1) 07/08/03 03:15 AM

SO i have 24 oz of r134a IN THE SYSTEM with 28 oz capacity and i hear some people say ' u can overcharge it ' and others say ' u cant over charge it '

QUESTION #1)

should i stick another 12 oz can in the system or leave it with just the 2 cans in there ?
-------------------------------
its blowing cold so i m happy now ..

but , i think i need to add 2 oz of oil .

QUESTION #2)

Can I add it by sticking the refrigerant oil can ( now without its own pressure) upside down in the low side port with ac on max and just have it 'suck in' ?
or do u have to have pressure in a can when u add it to the low side port ?


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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kiran
New CEG'er

Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 18
Re: 22k cant be a leak unless.. new
#343506 (Re: eric1) 07/09/03 08:53 PM


Eric, thanks for your respons. Anyhow, there is another twist to this saga. I took her back to Ford for change of brakes and asked them to check if there was a leak- because they had injected some dye a few days ago. on last visit, they had verified the ac system, added refrigerant and put in some dye.

I complained today that the noise with AC is still there.
Have been told that although there is no leak, there are other problems with AC. Will be covered by warantee but will have to pay $100 deductible.
Have been told that there is problem with clutch, pulley etc.

AM REALLY PUZZLED, HOW COULD IT BE? SHOULD I ASK THEM TO CHECK THE HEATER BLOWER MOTOR, AS THIS SEEMS TO BE A COMMON PROBLEM WITH OUR CARS.

Your help, advice and input is appreciated. Many thanks



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