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kiran
New CEG'er

Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 18
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam fo new
#326287 (Re: tomtoursvt) 06/23/03 03:23 PM

Originally posted by tomtoursvt:
Are you sure it's not a leak in one of the hoses.
If it blew cold air out for 5 days and then got warmer, then it sounds like you may have a slow leak like I do. The hoses Ford uses are p.o.s..
I put some dye in with the coolant and noticed a bunch of pin size holes on the top a/c hose.





LEAK OR COOLANT LOW ????

MY MYSTIQUE 99 WITH 22,000 MILES, HAS AC PROBLEMS.
AM TAKING TO DEALER IN TWO DAYS BUT QUESTION THAT I NEED TO RESOLVE IS WHETHER IT WILL BE COVERED BY MY FORD EXTRA CARE WARRANTY??
FORD DEALER SAYS THAT: IF IT A LEAK, THEY WILL COVER IT AFTER I PAY THE DEDUCTIBLE $100.
IT IS NOT A LEAK, I WILL PAY ABOUT 70 FOR A CHECKUP AND FILLUP OF COOLANT.
KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS SO CANNOT ARGUE WITH THEM.
HOW DO WE KNOW IF THERE IS LEAK OR NOT?
IS THERE A GENERAL PROBLEM ABOUT THE LEAK IN SEAL???
WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INPUT FROM ALL YOU KNOWLEDGABLE GUYS.
THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH.


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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
22k cant be a leak unless.. new
#326822 (Re: kiran) 06/23/03 10:05 PM

if you only have 22k miles .. it cant be a leak UNLESS the car has gone through something like off roading that it wassnt designed for .. it must be coolant low ... but it could be a leak if say .. it was a friday or a monday when they put your car together and it is lacking inferior workmanship

Anyway , the dealer should fix it with that low of mileage..
but it sucks that you have to still shell out $100 to do it !





--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
condensor change new
#326907 (Re: eric1) 06/23/03 11:46 PM

You must replace the 2 O-ring seals (1 is green) -
and in my case the springs are bad too ..

and the tech said to bring them down so he could match them .. because the kit has too much stuff init\

Well i have some orings .. but .. the spring .. that is something i wont be able to match so if i have to get the damn spring i might as well buy the o rings from them too .. ;(

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
vaccuumm new
#329793 (Re: eric1) 06/26/03 10:59 AM

nobady saiyd anything about the vaccuum application as far as where do i do it..
obviously i do it with the engine off...


do i apply it at the low side and the high side ?

or is just the low side what is desired

(20 to 30 minutes) ...


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: vaccuumm new
#330513 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 12:37 AM

well i tried vaccuuming the low side.. with my hand vaccuum pump ..

i dont think i want to do anything on the high side ---
well im going to go get another can of dye i guess and see what happens again .. by the way , the orings were different prices at one ford dealer .. one guy was kind of being non helpful and wanted $4 a piece ! another guy at another dealer was very helpful and they were 52 cents a piece (you need 4 ) ..



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: vaccuumm new
#330599 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 02:16 AM

for some reason i think the schraeder valve is of a 1 way design ... because when i connected my freon adding hose to a can and i drilled a hole in the empty can and inserted my mity vac hand vaccuum pump to it i am able to get about 25 psi of vaccuum ( i think thats the unit .. or maybe its inches of mercury .. ..)

anyway , i added a can of freon .. and then i tried adding oil .. i had a partly used can which i tipped upside down hoping as the compressor kicked on and off the oil would be added into the system .. it's hard to tell by hand weight feel if 20 cc got in there or not ... i suppose i could dump some more $$ into a can of r 134a that has 2 oz of oil in it ... but i really need to get the can of UV .. so i can see if this mother is going to leak again after i replaced the o-rings ...

againg , i only have 30 days to return the salvage part back to the yard ..i suspect i will be surpised in the next day or 2 by what i f ind .. as the system is now, it is half charged and it does blow cold .. but not very cold..

incidentally i struck up a conversation with a guy getting some ac stuff in the store and he said R12, the real freyon ,the type of stuff used in refrigerators ,can get much colder than r134a ...

anyways.. i ll keep u updated with whether this nice system maintains its self and maintains its coolness for a long time...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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RoadRunner
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 1603
Loc: Westchester Co., NY, USA
Re: vaccuumm new
#331104 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 03:02 PM

You have to evacuate the system with an Evacuator.
The evacuator will reach at least 30 in/lbs of of vacuum in the system
which is enough to rid the system of any moisture.
The vacuum has to stay at least for 30 minutes to insure there are NO LEAKS.
If the system will NOT hold the vacuum then there is a leak, and the leak needs to be repaired.

Using a HAND VAC PUMP will not accomplish this.

Shreader valve is a spring loaded valve.
It is either open or closed.
There aren't any one way, or anyways to it.
If you don't press it down far enough, it won't open fully.

--------------------
Pete...

2004 Mercury Marauder 300A
Black Clearcoat/Dark Charcoal LEATHER
DOB 10/31/2003
DOP 1/2/2004
www.mercurymarauder.net

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: vaccuumm new
#331553 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/27/03 08:11 PM

Well .. thanks for the info on the vaccuum amount and source .

You indicate it can't be a hand vac, and that it must be 30 in per # maintained for 30 minutes and that the system must hold this otherwise there is a leak. And if there is a leak, the way to detect it (this info you didn't provide in your latest post) is :

1) air pressure and a sniffer ( Expensive shop equipment)
2) UV dye added to R134A and a UV LED pen light ( DIY cheap
method to get by for most larger leaks )

I understand the hand vac is not a 3/4 horse motor with reciprocating piston and valve so the vacuum amount is less, but none-the-less , it is vaccuum and some must be better than none.

Well when I did hook up the mity-vac, it did hold the 25psi for like 20 min.. I left it and when I came back it was the same vaccuum, so I imagine it heald on the low side.

But you didn't mention anything about using the low side in favor of the high side schraeder valve .... or what is it exactly that the occasion arrises to use the high side port for ?

You check the pressure differentials between the 2 to see if they are according to spec ?_

I have heard people talking about 'pulling ' the stuff f through with vaccuum.. is this what u do to fill the system with the engine off is apply vaccuum at the high side and open a can of R134A applied to the low side ?




--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: vaccuumm new
#331846 (Re: eric1) 06/27/03 11:59 PM

Originally posted by eric1:
Well .. thanks for the info on the vaccuum amount and source .

You indicate it can't be a hand vac, and that it must be 30 in per # maintained for 30 minutes and that the system must hold this otherwise there is a leak. And if there is a leak, the way to detect it (this info you didn't provide in your latest post) is :

1) air pressure and a sniffer ( Expensive shop equipment)
2) UV dye added to R134A and a UV LED pen light ( DIY cheap
method to get by for most larger leaks )

I understand the hand vac is not a 3/4 horse motor with reciprocating piston and valve so the vacuum amount is less, but none-the-less , it is vaccuum and some must be better than none.




Some is not better than none. 25 inches does not remove any moisture. you must get down below 29 inches(mercury) before any moisture will boil off inside and can be removed. 25 inches also leaves quite a lot of air in the system, which will create high pressure in the condenser and reduce the performance significantly of the evaporator.

Quote:

Well when I did hook up the mity-vac, it did hold the 25psi for like 20 min.. I left it and when I came back it was the same vaccuum, so I imagine it heald on the low side.

But you didn't mention anything about using the low side in favor of the high side schraeder valve .... or what is it exactly that the occasion arrises to use the high side port for ?

You check the pressure differentials between the 2 to see if they are according to spec ?_

I have heard people talking about 'pulling ' the stuff f through with vaccuum.. is this what u do to fill the system with the engine off is apply vaccuum at the high side and open a can of R134A applied to the low side ?






The vacuum can be pulled from high or low side, doesn't matter. Compressor off. vacuum is in inches of mercury. 29.9 will get you a dehydrating (Removes water)vacuum. If there is no leaks, but some liquid water, the pressure will still increase somewhat as the water turns to vapor. That's why at least a half hour is necessary. Gives time for all water to vaporize and be removed. After pulling the vacuum, letting it sit and seeing if the pressure rises is a good leak test. Bear in mind, some joints leak under pressure but not under vacuum and vice a versa too. While under vacuum, you add r-134a (liquid, can upside down) while NOT running to low side. Not sure of exact weight, but cans are 12 oz. and the car should have a label saying how much is needed. Use a scale to weigh cans full, then empty. After putting in as much liquid as the system will take (without going over full charge weight), the compressor should be runnable. Add GAS (Can upright) to low side, weighing amount put in, until you have added the correct amount of r-134a. A/C should work great.

There are other ways to do this, but this is the correct way. Other methods may lead to overcharging and damaged components.

Pulling a vacuum, BTW, just means hooking up the vacuum pump and removing the air and moisture from a system. You are "pulling" them out of the system.





--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: vaccuumm new
#331853 (Re: eric1) 06/28/03 12:08 AM

Originally posted by eric1:


incidentally i struck up a conversation with a guy getting some ac stuff in the store and he said R12, the real freyon ,the type of stuff used in refrigerators ,can get much colder than r134a ...




Not true. My company (CArrier A/C) has replaced r-12 with r-134 in our industrial units. They do the same temperatures. I just left a job here we make -20F Brine.

Freon is a Brand name (DuPont's) for r-12
Allied Signal R-12 : Genetron
Carrier: Carrene 12

R-134a is SUVA (DuPont)

Refrigerators don't usually use r-12, they use r-22 which is now replaced with r-134a or other refrigerants (r-410, others).

Most window units in your home are r-22.

The guy getting A/C stuff must have limited experience.

Now, if he said that an R-12 car system that is converted to r-134a isn't as cold, he would be right. R-12 is slightl;y denser than r-134a so the orifice sizes, amount of refrigerant needed and some other little details make a conversion job inefficient. For instance, the compressor needs to run a little faster for r-134a than r-12. In new cars, pulley sizes are changed. In retrofits, it isn't changed (usually) and the system can not cool well at engine idle.

FYI for everyone.







--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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