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JasonL
CEG'er

Reged: 03/10/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Clearfield, PA
Re: charge hold new
#320775 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 01:27 AM

Quote:

Now, the parts are named this for their function...
The COMPRESSOR takes the R134a and compresses it, turning it into a LIQUID, and pumping it through the AC Line.
The LIQUID, under HIGH PRESSURE cannot be forced through the Evaporator quickly, so it ACCUMULATES in the Accumulator(or Dryer).
From the Accumulator, the R134a flows into the EVAPORATOR.
The Evaporator is called so because, high pressure R134a enters as LIQUID and leaves as a GAS (evaporates).
The blower fan inside your car draws hot air through the evaporator
and the liquid R134a removes the heat from the air, making the air cold.
The high pressure liquid then turns to a high pressure GAS (EVAPORATING) from the change in temperature.
This GAS then passes through the ORIFICE, which regulates the flow of the gas.
Once through the Orifice, there is a change in pressure.
Now the R134a is a MODERATE PRESSURE HEATED gas.
The R134a, in this state, enters the CONDENSOR.
In the CONDENSOR, the outside airflow, either being drawn by the electric cooling fans,
or flowing through the radiator as you drive, removes the HEAT from the R134a,
that it absorbed when it passed through the Evaporator.
This effectively makes the GAS change from a low density to a HIGH Density gas(CONDENSATION).
This works much like a Intercooler for a Turbo.
Cooling a gas makes the gas higher in density.
This also changes the pressure from moderate to LOW.
A higher density gas takes up less space than a lower density gas.
Now the gas is then drawn into the Compressor, to be pressurized, liquified, and then back around the AC Route again.

Now than you understand how the AC system works, troubleshooting it will be much easier.





Wow, you just confused me. The way I was taught, and according to the "Ford self study book" in front of me, it goes more like this(for the fixed oriface type): The compressor compresses the refrigerant, it leaves the compressor as a high pressure high temp gas and enters the condensor, the "cooler" air passing over the condensor turns it into a high pressure high temp liquid, it then passes through the oriface tube and due to the restriction turns into a low pressure low temp liquid, it then enters the evaporator, the warmer cabin air or outside air (depending on max a/c or a/c setting), passes over the evaporator and then turns it into a mixture of mostly low pressure low temp gas with in some cases still liquid left, it then goes into the accumulator/drier to remove any remaining liquid before going back into the compressor.

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: charge hold - 55 deg !!! new
#321820 (Re: JasonL) 06/18/03 10:04 PM

Well I just threw another 12 oz can of Primus into the system's low side ( takes about oh 15 to 20 min or so with your ac on max and fan on high ) .. and the thermometers in the vehicle had it at 55 deg and the hygrometer had 39%.

I would say 55 deg is pretty respectable.

The pressure according to the dial on the self fill kit said about 70 psi (low pressure intake).

Well it's wednesday about 615pm , i think i put the last can in about 4 something pm. Lets see how long it remains cold for ...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: FORD SAYS - Condensor has slow leak in seam for AC new
#321822 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 10:09 PM

i removed condensor, it's easy if you have the ford a/c line removal tools. I'll sell u my old condensor for real cheap (should be fine, compressor leaked but condensor was fine) though of course no warranty on it. and i had my car tested for the leak for like $15.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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eepals
CEG'er

Reged: 03/05/02
Posts: 496
Loc: NJ
Re: charge hold - 55 deg !!! new
#321852 (Re: eric1) 06/18/03 10:48 PM

You should get about 40 degrees out of the center vent on a properly charged system.

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#321929 (Re: Kremithefrog) 06/19/03 12:00 AM

i removed condensor, it's easy if you have the ford a/c line removal tools. I'll sell u my old condensor for real cheap (should be fine, compressor leaked but condensor was fine) though of course no warranty on it. and i had my car tested for the leak for like $15.

--------------------
IF YOU HAD BEEN READING THE POSTS .. you would have seen:
1) The condensor has already been replaced with a salvage condensor
2) I have a 30 day warranty on my replacement condensor
3) I had my card tested for leak by Ford for about $60 .

Why are you not reading the history ?

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#322122 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/19/03 03:09 AM

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
Originally posted by eric1:
Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.




Okay,

Here is an overview of your AC system in case you wondered how it all worked...

Compressor -> Accumulator(Dryer) -> Evaporator -> Orifice -> Condensor -> Compressor.

Everything between the Compressor and the Orifice is HIGH PRESSURE.
Everything between the Orifice and the Compressor is LOW Pressure.
The Orifice is a very small tube, surrounded by a very fine filter.
This is the only part responsible for the HIGH/LOW side pressures,
and can cause a lot of problems if it is clogged with metal shavings
from a worn out and poorly lubricated compressor.






Compressor -> Condenser -> Accumulator -> orifice (Or expansion Valve) -> Evaporator -> Compressor

Compressor - Low pressure Cold gas compressed to High pressure hot gas
Condenser - Hot gas "condensed" to high pressure liquid
Accumulator - Gives room for expansion, contraction, sort of a reservoir - can also filter and dry. Some systems have separate accumulators and filter/driers.
Orifice : High Pressure liquid to low pressure liquid
Evaporator : low pressure liquid, boiled by heat in air, becomes low pressure gas
Back to compressor to start cycle over.

FWIW, I think road-runner knew this (IMHO) and just typed it in the wrong sequence. The rest of his statements are absolutely corrrect.

AS RR said, every thing from the compressor to the orifice is high pressure when running. When the system is off, the pressure equalizes in the system and will be at a pressure that corrresponds to the saturated pressure of 134a for the ambient temperature.

--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
charge gone again new
#324763 (Re: eepals) 06/21/03 03:39 PM

Well - Umm.. it was too good to be true.. it stayed cold about 2 days then it was luke warm ..

I recall being able to pull the fittings apart even after I had fully pushed them together and visually verified the springs were outside the fitting (what a [censored] of a pain to get your hand and that tool and wiggle the aluminum pipe ).

This could be the problem that the salvage condensor connector springs aren't fully sealing - of course the I havent UV checked the replacement condensor yet .. but I suspect the connector point .. what a pain in the arse...

Pepboys never did call me back in 9 days indicating that the replacement new condensor was in so I got my $151.31 (inc. tax) back --- not too much of a surprise there - but my answering machine may have been full for a few days ..


I am going to start this mother up and see if the compressor kicks on with ac on ... I suspect not , it doesnt come on when there is insufficient pressure.
The result is - as expected, no compressor turning and no radiator fan comes on. Next week its going tobe in the 90's and won't be fun as I use the car during the day for my job.


I guess I should put a can of UV in the thing and see what I can see with my little LED penlight and special yellow goggle-glasses.


Maybe I should vacuum the system and refill it and see what happens before putting UV in .. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm dumping a lot of money into this .. but I would be dumping more money to someone who knew what they were doing .. and I don't have any to spare really.



****************** I wonder if NOT vacuuming the system for 20 min is what has caused something to malfunction.



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#324853 (Re: eric1) 06/21/03 06:54 PM

Originally posted by eric1:

--------------------
IF YOU HAD BEEN READING THE POSTS .. you would have seen:
1) The condensor has already been replaced with a salvage condensor
2) I have a 30 day warranty on my replacement condensor
3) I had my card tested for leak by Ford for about $60 .

Why are you not reading the history ?



sorry i read u'r post and quickly typed something that I thought mite helped. i read that you had it tested by ford and i put how much i paid to have mine tested to let you know ford dealers rip you off and let others now.
i was trying to offer you a cheap fix if you needed a condensor. sorry i'll make sure to not try to help you again.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: well, not to be a mean person but.... new
#324889 (Re: Kremithefrog) 06/21/03 08:03 PM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


sorry i read u'r post and quickly typed something that I thought mite helped. i read that you had it tested by ford and i put how much i paid to have mine tested to let you know ford dealers rip you off and let others now.
i was trying to offer you a cheap fix if you needed a condensor. sorry i'll make sure to not try to help you again.




I'm sorry man ,.. just very frustrated by this whole pain in the ass.. I just typed in a very long reply and lost that too... so double the frustration...

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
ok .. i put the UV charge in new
#325406 (Re: eric1) 06/22/03 01:35 PM

and then i took out my $14 LED UV light source with yellow glasses last night and looked around and low and behold -
there was a large dripped area on the left of the radiator protector at bottom cowling ( you know the one with the several star screw-bolts of which you probably are missing a couple) . Also the little fold down datch in this cowling had several drips of it .

It must be coming from the compressor OR the stupid spring fittings . I speculate the connector spring fittings .. if I was able to pull 1 apart after it was thought to have been connected, that can't be a good connection when your talking several hundred PSI going through there.

But jacking the car in a crowded garage is no fun and you can't do it outside because, you need it dark to see the UV dye glow.

I hate to do it but I beleive I must do it tonight because I only have 30 days return on the salvage condensor, and if it is because of the spring connectors ( I beleive one of which is on the condensor - yes - One is on the condensor and one on the car - so the thing to determine is wether it is the spring connector leak on the car or on the condensor or both! )


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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