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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317837 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 03:32 AM

WELL i only paid $60 for a used condensor from a salvage yard which was pressure tested( umm.. well.. as good as they could) but i brought it home and took it up to 60 psi in my basement washbasins, using a portable 12V compressor, a 10amp battery charger and an engine compression tester, (the port. compressor had a guage on it as well)...

but it has been a hell to use my cheap plastic PEP boys ac/fuel line removal tool $8 which compresses the little spring holding the couplings together.

Also, the condensor DOES NOT LIFT UP it must come down, this is because the hood latch prevents the condensor from going upward! it is welded (spot) to the frame! so to pull the condensor down you must remove the radiator bracket.. and those 4 damn bolts were just rusted to hell and i had to drill the damn things out as the cheap screw extractor just didnt hack it past 1 bolt .. and the bit had to be sharpened after every bolt ..

then i chiseled the bolt heads off... more crappy crap to perform tomorrow with the remaining bolt/nut left over.

i still have to straighten the fins on the salvage condensor

man there was a ton of dust/ crap built up in the radiator fins .. haynes recommends a hose or soft brush to remove the accumulation.. so as not tobend the fins.

well.. all for now .. if i get the ac going before summer's over .. u can be glad to not have to read anymore continuation of this thr\ead....


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Josch
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 06/11/02
Posts: 652
Loc: Washington
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317903 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 06:24 AM

If I was you, I would have evacuated the system with a vacuum pump motor for a minimum 1/2 hour before even trying to charge the system at all. That was standard procedure for back when I always used to work on A/C at a previous job at a shop I used to work at. The vacuum helps to suck the freon in, and also serves to create super low absolute pressure so as to boil out any moisture that may be in the system (during that time you have the vacuum pump on it). Also, if it wont take the full 1 lb 12oz (I think that's what Contour takes?), then make sure you start it up and run it while filling from the low side, so the lowside pressure drop will help to draw the rest of the freon in, as it converts most of it into liquid by pressurizing it into the high side. Did you do all that?

--------------------
'95 CONTOUR SE
-Enkei 16s
-SVT wannabe
-Dual escapes w/ 2 1/2" stainless tips
-True LED taillight conversion
-Audi Xenon Projector Retrofit
-Mp3 deck, dual 10s

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#317976 (Re: Josch) 06/15/03 12:17 PM

If I was you, I would have evacuated the system with a vacuum pump motor for a minimum 1/2 hour before even trying to charge the system at all. That was standard procedure for back when I always used to work on A/C at a previous job at a shop I used to work at. The vacuum helps to suck the freon in, and also serves to create super low absolute pressure so as to boil out any moisture that may be in the system (during that time you have the vacuum pump on it). Also, if it wont take the full 1 lb 12oz (I think that's what Contour takes?), then make sure you start it up and run it while filling from the low side, so the lowside pressure drop will help to draw the rest of the freon in, as it converts most of it into liquid by pressurizing it into the high side. Did you do all that?

==========================================================

Hey Josch,
Um.. I was talknig to a guy at work that said he did his wife's car without any vaccuum.. and is still going strong after 1.5 yrs. Yeah I did connect the filler tube to the low side to see if anything was coming out .. and nothing did .. the green UV crap did spill out a bit when i discon .. and what a b.... it was getting one of the condensor connections undone .. I needed to remove that U-tube that sits in front of the condensor to buy a little room. Little chinsey plastic pep boys tool cant be good for too many reuses ...

I do have a mity-vac (hand vaccuum) .. but that isnothing like a vac pump and 20 min.... but i'll let it suck some anyway .. though it's prob almost as good as doing nothing.. my little 12v compressor may have ability to go in vaccuum mode, if thats the case then im in business.
16+12 =28 oz .. or just 2 of those 14 oz cans with the oil already mixed in .. does this mean i wouldnt have to add the 20cc of oil it recommends when you replace any AC part (ie compressor, accumulator, etc).

I will definitely be running the motor to fill the thing up as any DIY'er does .. I think you need big equipment to do it without the compressor running... or woeuldnt u need to anyway ?

Well.. I think i do want the ac more for humidity removal just as much as for cooling .. after motor has been on 15 min.. and the system is up to 180-205 all that heat radiates into the cockpit so you get like a 10 or 20 deg. increase from ambient without having any air flow... and then after 30 min the 'cool' vent blows warm air as the whole engine compartment has been thermally radiated from the engine. If only the engine (and radiator) were in the rear you could almost do without AC.

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318112 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 06:46 PM

well i spent between an 1/2 to an hour straightening the majority of the straightenable fins on the replacement salvage condensor (i have to still get a return onthe condensorfrom pepboys , which uhave to pay f or before you can even special order ( 3to 5 days) .. its been about 5 and no call from them .. i think i called them after 2 days and they said " the truck will be in tomorrow")

so i pressure checked my original condensor .. i think i got itupto about40 psi .. compared to the 60 i got with the replacement one -- but i was just pushing tapered nozzle ofa 12v compressor and the other orifice i stuck a compression tester guage into. I didnt fill up my washbasin with water to see for air bubbles when i tested the original condensor but i did for the replacement, which i saw none for.

I dont know what the amount is supposed to be .. but the condensor is the low pressure side, i think.

lotta cigarrets and beer to get through this crap..

i tried to tap with 1/4 20 the original radiator mount holse.. no avail -the steel is too hard , the tap too cheap.

so there is just enough metal on the side of the original holes to drill new ones .. and 1/4 " can be used .. i had a screw set of machine threads , nuts, washers, locks.. i think the thread was 25 or 26 .. whatever , not standard.

u have to drill slowly, like your milling, or else the bit will just dull down in about 30 seconds ..
God, this has been the project from hell
I am out of energy, I usually take Sundays very easily...
Last night was very very late like 1030 before I started cleaning up. All this with a left finger that suffered laceration that should have gotten stitches 3 weeks ago and a recent thumb jam on the other hand fri afternoon, nail cut back about 1/4 " to clean out debree, which hurts like hell when pressure is applied.

Laying on the concrete of the garage with a sheet of cardboard really stops the body's circulation .. i woke up with a a real pain in the side i laid on to do work from the night before .. rested my head on foam and that would have been good for the whole body .. there is just not enough clearance to work with your arms with the creeper roller as the car sits so low..

There is a ton of almost like bird nest crap I need to brush out from between the radiator and condensor but it's on the front of the radiator .. i'll use a brass bristle brush, very fine to do it .. i wouldnt do it with a steel bristle brush because your brushing the aluminum fins of the radiator ... This must be from 107000 miles of accumulation. The bottom area is where the impact of tiny pebbles make their way into the lower area of the condensor and so my suggestion is to not follow industrial vehicles on the highway!


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Contouraholic
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Milford, NJ
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318254 (Re: eric1) 06/15/03 10:59 PM

Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.

You can't check it well with an air compressor.

Make sure your connections are TIGHT.

Also, if the system has been discharged a while, the filter drier is probably saturated and will fall apart under use. While your friend may have been ok, your mileage may vary. If the dessicant gets loose in the system, it will clog all orifices and the evaporator. Effectively destroying the system.
Pulling a dehydrating vacuum is always a good idea.




--------------------
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#318350 (Re: Contouraholic) 06/16/03 02:10 AM

Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.

You can't check it well with an air compressor.

Make sure your connections are TIGHT.

Also, if the system has been discharged a while, the filter drier is probably saturated and will fall apart under use. While your friend may have been ok, your mileage may vary. If the dessicant gets loose in the system, it will clog all orifices and the evaporator. Effectively destroying the system.
Pulling a dehydrating vacuum is always a good idea.

...................................................

Well.. I guess i associated the condensor with the fill port on the low side because they arenext toeachother.

Umm.. i think it heald partial charge for the time.... as it had a very slow leak..

Another thing is some damn rubber crap on top of the radiator fell off when i pulled the condensor down (V6 people only , 4 cyl people go up), its a long strip that slips into a slot? I mean stud? I mean thin strip on top of the radiator (there are 2 on top and bottom) and covers the top of the condensor and keeps the 2 from rubbing. well , the Haynes manual doesnt say a damn thing about it .

Also, I found that , I just ASSumed that my drilling 2 holes outside the original ones would work.. guess what ? It doesnt! I am only holding the brackets with one 25 or 26 tpi machine screw. The hardened steel originals were of 8mm head and 10mm nut .. I don't know the tpi but there were 2 of them. Well.. Umm.. yeah.. try and get at least one of the bolts out!

I made sure the connections were tight .. all u can do is visually check that that the spring is out side the aluminum shim rim thing. and then put the metal hold down clips in place.



The dessicant may be loose, the evaporator and orifices could very well be clogged. The system probably is s... .
Well, I don't have a vaccuumm well, one that is readialy applicable.. building tools for applications in short order is never a timely fashion.


Howevery, I made apurchase atwalmart, 4.5 for 12 oz freon, and 5 something fro theoil charge.

I putthe 1st can of freon in , I may not have left it on long enough, and then the oil can .. I noticed the temp got down to 59 inside max ac fan high. as i was barbquing and drinking another beer, i was checking things and feeling the weight of the oil can charge.. it was not empty af tery several minutes , maybe 20 or more.

i noticed the temp going up and the compressor was not kicking on , the oil can charge was half full.. .
i had no idea what was going on so i sealed the oil charge ( as i dont want to be buying another one) and pulled the f ill hose and shut the engine off until someone can tell me what i may be experiencing as far as the reason the full oil charge wasnt taken in


--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
vaccuumm of the evacuation and removal of the stuf new
#319596 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 02:56 AM

Hello

Would I be applying the 30 min of vaccuumm to the low pressure side or the high pressure port ?

thanks

--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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Rogerm60
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 10/11/02
Posts: 2408
Re: vaccuumm of the evacuation and removal of the stuf new
#319697 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 04:06 AM

Most guage sets allow you to open both sides to vacuum.

30 inches is relative to sea level and barometric pressure.


--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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RoadRunner
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/11/01
Posts: 1603
Loc: Westchester Co., NY, USA
Re: RADIATOR BRACKET REMOVAL new
#319976 (Re: eric1) 06/17/03 01:13 PM

Originally posted by eric1:
Condenser is High side pressure. Relief on r-134a is usually 380 PSI.
Working pressures on the car are in the 150 to 200 PSI range with excursions into 300 psi not unusual.




Okay,

Here is an overview of your AC system in case you wondered how it all worked...

Compressor -> Accumulator(Dryer) -> Evaporator -> Orifice -> Condensor -> Compressor.

Everything between the Compressor and the Orifice is HIGH PRESSURE.
Everything between the Orifice and the Compressor is LOW Pressure.
The Orifice is a very small tube, surrounded by a very fine filter.
This is the only part responsible for the HIGH/LOW side pressures,
and can cause a lot of problems if it is clogged with metal shavings
from a worn out and poorly lubricated compressor.

You should find this valve and replace it if needed.
It is easy to locate, just follow the hose route and somethere where there is a union,
between the evaporator and the condensor, you will see dimples on one side, in the tubing.
The dimples hold the Orifice tube in place.
Open the union and remove the Orifice tube and take a good look at it.
If it is clean and full of oil, then your compressor and AC system is fine.
Then you can just put it back.
If it looks dirty and full of metal grit, like the metal grit in the bottom of a tranny pan,
then you will need to replace your compressor and accumulator.

Now, the parts are named this for their function...
The COMPRESSOR takes the R134a and compresses it, turning it into a LIQUID, and pumping it through the AC Line.
The LIQUID, under HIGH PRESSURE cannot be forced through the Evaporator quickly, so it ACCUMULATES in the Accumulator(or Dryer).
From the Accumulator, the R134a flows into the EVAPORATOR.
The Evaporator is called so because, high pressure R134a enters as LIQUID and leaves as a GAS (evaporates).
The blower fan inside your car draws hot air through the evaporator
and the liquid R134a removes the heat from the air, making the air cold.
The high pressure liquid then turns to a high pressure GAS (EVAPORATING) from the change in temperature.
This GAS then passes through the ORIFICE, which regulates the flow of the gas.
Once through the Orifice, there is a change in pressure.
Now the R134a is a MODERATE PRESSURE HEATED gas.
The R134a, in this state, enters the CONDENSOR.
In the CONDENSOR, the outside airflow, either being drawn by the electric cooling fans,
or flowing through the radiator as you drive, removes the HEAT from the R134a,
that it absorbed when it passed through the Evaporator.
This effectively makes the GAS change from a low density to a HIGH Density gas(CONDENSATION).
This works much like a Intercooler for a Turbo.
Cooling a gas makes the gas higher in density.
This also changes the pressure from moderate to LOW.
A higher density gas takes up less space than a lower density gas.
Now the gas is then drawn into the Compressor, to be pressurized, liquified, and then back around the AC Route again.

Now than you understand how the AC system works, troubleshooting it will be much easier.


--------------------
Pete...

2004 Mercury Marauder 300A
Black Clearcoat/Dark Charcoal LEATHER
DOB 10/31/2003
DOP 1/2/2004
www.mercurymarauder.net

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eric1
CEG'er

Reged: 01/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: rochester,ny
charge hold new
#320718 (Re: RoadRunner) 06/18/03 12:41 AM

well.. it only took 1/2 of a an 11 oz can ... the can comprised 8.5 oz oil and 2.5 oz of r134a .. so .. haynes manual recommends 20cc of oil .. and i think 10cc is about an oz a cc is about a ml is about a mg (of H2O).

So .. um .. 8.5 oz of oil seems like way too much for the system anyway.

Anyway < I put a can of r134a in .. i see pressures on the low side of about 70 or so pounds although that is in the red range of my kit indicator but .. it is not a 95 ford design application either.

So , I put my thermometer in frount of the air on max ac and i get it down to about 59 without holding it there more than several minutes. Just level 2 on the fan ..

I understand ac should blow out something colder , but i want to see ifit holds charge through the week at just this partial level ? .. if it maintains being cold then i'll stick another 12oz can of r134a in .. if not then i think i have to find the leak , right ?



--------------------
its just a car to get from pt a to b
usually it does it nicely --AIM: chronon1
95 Tour SE, 2.5 lliter 24V DOHC V6, 5 speed manual

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