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Swazo
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I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,,
#158301 - 01/22/03 12:44 AM

I noticed today as I was stuck behind a dump truck towing a back hoe up a steep mountian road doing 20 mph for 3 miles that my temp gauge was about at the red line. Once I got it off the road and waited a few minuets to let her cool off and to vent out the steam with some tricky radiator cap twisting with a towel I got it cooled down pretty fast.

I got going again and I could go faster now that the sloww a$$ed dump truck was gone and I was able to keep my temp at a decent level as long as I kept it in a higher gear and was going 40+.

My guess is that the impeller is of the plastic kind and is about all out of blades. I have a brand new radiatior because the original one got smashed by the grease monkey doing my clutch, so that isn't it. My fans work too, so I can only figure it's the water pump or thermestat.

I got a new metal impeller water pump today, but I wasn't sure what temp themestat to get for my SVT. Since I KNOW that the Pep boys guys would have even less of an idea than I do.....I was going to swing by the dealership tomarrow. Anyone know off hand what temp I need just incase the counter guy is as smart as I KNOW he'll (she'll) be?

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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2KSESportV6
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#158431 (Re: Swazo) 01/22/03 02:32 AM

If the temp guage is pinned at hot and no heat, most likely your water pump is gone. If it does have heat and the guage is pinned at hot, most likely it will be your thermostat.

--------------------
Irfan Rahim
irfman2000@yahoo.com
2006 Blue Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Former owner of a silver 2000 Contour SE Sport ATX








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bentleywarren
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#158437 (Re: Swazo) 01/22/03 02:38 AM

Sounds a lot like a cooling fan problem. I know you said they work, but your symptoms are exactly what will happen if the cooling fan doesn't turn on when it should.

--------------------
95 Contour Zetec, ATX (wrecked, sitting in the barn)
95 Mystique Zetec, MTX
2000 Taurus SEL 3.0L Duratec
1994 Crown Victoria LX 4.6 V8
1993 Chevy Silverado 4.3 V6

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PA 3L SVT
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#158734 (Re: Swazo) 01/22/03 06:52 AM

NAPA's computer lists the 195 deg stat as OEM, and 180 deg stat as optional colder temp. I know the 180 stat is NAPA part number 109. IIRC, the 195 stat is # 209 - but that could be wrong.

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#158776 (Re: Swazo) 01/22/03 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Swazo:
.... I wasn't sure what temp themestat to get for my SVT. Since I KNOW that the Pep boys guys would have even less of an idea than I do.....I was going to swing by the dealership tomarrow. Anyone know off hand what temp I need just incase the counter guy is as smart as I KNOW he'll (she'll) be?



You're no doubt expecting a simple answer like 195 or 180 degrees - no can do. This is a common replacement part but nowhere in my Ford '97/'98 owner's guides, '97 service manual or '98 service cd does Ford give such a spec. They only list the following info in their service manual:

Thermostat spec V6 (I4)
Starts to open: 183-190 (187-194)
Fully open: 210 (216)

I've never had mine out so I don't know what is stamped
on the button. Here's an old thread on the subject:


http://www.contour.org/archive/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=141545&Forum=UBB3&Words=thermostat&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=3&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=141545&Search=true#Post141545

In view of above, go easy on parts person.

BTW I doubt yours needs replacing, you can check it after removal by boiling in pot of water. Stuck thermostats and faulty waterpumps usually detectable at idle from cold start as temp needle heads for the red zone. The post by fordcontoursport above gives the other symptoms to determine which is at fault.



--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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gdub520
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#159639 (Re: horseydug) 01/23/03 01:39 AM

i pretty much had both go on my car at the same time...my car would leak and generally lose alot of coolant/water and i'd have to refill almost daily and sometimes more often depending on how much driving, etc

i still had heat from my heater

is your car leaking coolant from towards the right side??? ..if so definitely the waterpump if not leaking it still may be the pump but it might just be the thermostat

i had mine fixed at mis-dealer while getting the atx replaced...my warranty paid for the pump, but not the thermostat...fair trade off for me

--------------------
99 expedition eddie bauer, 5.4 v8, k&n drop-in, 3" magnaflow catback and gas mileage that makes the contour look like a hybrid

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#159922 (Re: gdub520) 01/23/03 05:23 AM

I have 75K so I am willing to replace the old water pump and thermostat to complete a totally new cooling system (Radiator replaced about 3K ago).

BUT, I'm starting to think it's my fan. It doesn't kick on now that I actually take a good look. Should I just replace the low speed fan relay? What is the fix for this problem?

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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gdub520
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#160081 (Re: Swazo) 01/23/03 12:53 PM

go to the dealer or post somewhere around here your vin and ask for an OASIS report...it'll tell u the recalls on your car...i think most of the v6 models and maybe all contours have/had a recall for fan fuse and/or blower switch...something like that...i had mine taken care of same time as all the other work

--------------------
99 expedition eddie bauer, 5.4 v8, k&n drop-in, 3" magnaflow catback and gas mileage that makes the contour look like a hybrid

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#164090 (Re: gdub520) 01/27/03 07:00 AM

OK, got the OASIS report but I don't think it has any recall for the fan or anything. There was a heater blower resistor and harness recall, a headlight switch harness, and crash sensors in the repair history. I have 3 field service actions, but I don't know if they are refering to the 3 repairs done or not. Am I looking at the right info?

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#167556 (Re: Swazo) 01/30/03 12:25 AM

Well,
I replaced the water pump which only had 2 1/3 of the 6 impellers left AND my thermostat was bad. I boiled some water and plopped it in and it just sat there. No opening happend at all. Did I test it right?

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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Rogerm60
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Reged: 10/11/02
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#167590 (Re: Swazo) 01/30/03 12:42 AM

Yes, the water only has to be above 195 deg. F.

Make sure you get all of the plastic pieces out of the system.

--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#167802 (Re: Swazo) 01/30/03 03:11 AM

Quote:

....BTW I doubt yours needs replacing, you can check it after removal by boiling in pot of water.....


So much for my prediction skills.
What temp on old/new thermostats?

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#167976 (Re: horseydug) 01/30/03 04:57 AM

It was stamped 188 and I've heard of others using the 180 degree thermostat as replacement. Since I spaced that one off, looks like I will have to go on a parts run tomarrow.

I flushed the engine for about 15 minuets with the prestone? flush kit before I did anything. I'm wondering if it did that much good considering the water pump wasn't working as well as it should've. Just to be safe I'll flush it again when I'm done with the new water pump and thermostat.

This SHOULD work.........

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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Rogerm60
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#167990 (Re: Swazo) 01/30/03 05:04 AM

Thermostat is 192 nom.

Too low will affect engine management.

--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#168068 (Re: Rogerm60) 01/30/03 06:03 AM

Correct, but that's for the Zetec.

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#168183 (Re: Swazo) 01/30/03 12:23 PM

Well it won't hurt to test the new thermostat before installation.

I filled/ran engine/drained cooling system a couple of times, when both of my pumps went last May, before adding anti-freeze.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#172446 (Re: horseydug) 02/03/03 06:11 AM

lol!

Oh man, put in a new water pump and thermostat and it still over heats! Looks like it'll be problem solving with the low speed cooling fan

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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2KSESportV6
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#172606 (Re: horseydug) 02/03/03 01:39 PM

I have a question, if the impeller shatters, will it leak? Most waterpumps go when they start leaking.

--------------------
Irfan Rahim
irfman2000@yahoo.com
2006 Blue Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Former owner of a silver 2000 Contour SE Sport ATX








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tw0wheelin
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#172698 (Re: 2KSESportV6) 02/03/03 03:23 PM

The seal and bearing were still fine on mine when the impeller went. I think a few have posted leaks, but sometimes it seems like there's no sign that the pump has died.

--------------------
Scott
95 SE-2.5L ATX (Sold, but not forgotten...)

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#172745 (Re: 2KSESportV6) 02/03/03 04:52 PM

With black plastic impeller waterpump it seems that impeller failure occurs before shaft seal or bearing have enough miles on them to fail. Seal failures posted IIRC seem to be infant mortality on replacement pumps, usually with metal impellers.

Swazo:

Surely not!
Fan failure normally only detectable when car idling for extended period or during stop and go driving in high ambient temp. Did you check for impeller bits behind stainless steel cone in wp housing, was cone firmly in place and did you install new tested thermostat correctly?

Detailed description of current symptoms might be useful.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Roz 1999 SVT-C
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#172752 (Re: horseydug) 02/03/03 04:58 PM

Another way to check if it failed is to look inside your radiator cap, and/or use one of those coolant testers to pull a sample out of your radiator.


If you see little black specks, it is mostlikly due to the plastic impeller breaking off.....but even if its the thermostat, i would reconmend doing preventive mantinence,
and changing the water pump for one with a metalimpeller. Even if its not bad.

Roz

--------------------
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#173281 (Re: Roz 1999 SVT-C) 02/04/03 12:56 AM

I pulled the whole water pump housing out to scrape all of the old gasket material off (2 gaskets were smashed on!). Everything went together nicely and the tested thermostat (180 degree) went in as well.

The problems I have is when I'm 30 mph and below for extended periods of time. The temperature slowly creeps up just below the red and then I bail for a 45 mph+ street to get it to cool down. After 2 minuets of driving about 45 mph in 4th or 5th gear, it has cooled down long enough for me to do some slow driving for a little bit until it starts to creep up on the red again. (I do a lot of bids for my family hardwood floor business )

I flushed the engine very well a few minuets ago and it still F%&^ing does it! Fuses check out on the fan and the connections look good. So all I can figure is that the relay has gone bad. I could be wrong, because I'm not the best electrician in the world and I'm just guessing!

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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Rogerm60
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#173306 (Re: Swazo) 02/04/03 01:15 AM

Fan problem would definately cause low speed overheating.

--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#173516 (Re: Rogerm60) 02/04/03 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Rogerm60:
Fan problem would definately cause low speed overheating.


Agreed, but you would think, in current 32-40 degree ambient in Utah and 30mph free-flowing city street driving, fan should not be required.

Some random order thoughts (due to time constraints):

-A check of hi-speed fan operation, i.e., turn a/c on, would be useful check on the fan motors being ok, but under 50 ambient may not let a/c come on.
-Low speed relay unique so not possible to substitute relay from another position. Fuse 2 60 amp in engine fuse box has been confirmed ok?
-Replacing rad may have interfered with fan wiring.

-With new rad, wp and 'stat coolant flow should be ok, and of course your heater is working ok?
-Engine with timing off can cause overheat, but doesn't appear applicable here.

At the moment I'm stumped, will check back in am.

Edit:
Was the replacement rad new or used? Basic problem seems to be similar to plugged rad/blockage/poor flow in cooling system, i.e., it can't deal with slight increase in engine heat generation. Working fan would deal with symptom but not root cause.
Always a possibility that temp sender is exagerating actual engine temp.

Observing temp rise at idle from cold start probably best starting point. Car in neutral, headlights, blower & rear defrost on, temp should rise to "normal" position of gauge. As car temp rises (usually a 1 letter change on temp needle) lo-speed fan should kick in, reducing temp and causing fan to shut off.


--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

Edited by horseydug (02/04/03 12:13 PM)

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#174984 (Re: horseydug) 02/05/03 05:36 AM

The radiator was replaced and everything has been fine up until it just started to do it months after the replacement.

My car is going into the body shop tomarrow to wrap up all the loose ends from my new paint job. I'll stick around my car as it warms up just to see if the fan actually turns on (I don't think it does). If it doesn't, I'll replace the relay and go from there as the wiring and connections still look fine.

Hopefully it's just the low speed fan relay and not the fan itself. Even if it is the fan, all that means is itll be replaced by a higher CFM fan anyway.

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#175128 (Re: Swazo) 02/05/03 12:16 PM

BTW both fans in parallel and therefore work together. Lo-speed accomplished by dropping resistor in circuit between relay and fan motors. Some Contiques only have one fan.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#175701 (Re: horseydug) 02/05/03 08:56 PM

Hmmmm
It ( the fan(s) )didn't come on at all even when I switched over to full blast A/C which you could hear kick on.

OK, since they run in parallel would that mean at low speeds both are running and at high speed one is running? Or is it the other way around?

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#175733 (Re: Swazo) 02/05/03 09:17 PM

Both off, both low or both high. Plse confirm fuse noted in my prior post is ok.

Edit:
Next step.
If ok then with ignition off pull lo-speed relay and place a towel over battery. Check relay or relay socket for terminals 3 & 5 and place a short jumper wire between these terminals in the relay socket. You will probably get a spark, therefore battery cover as a precaution. Jumper should be 12 gauge or larger.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

Edited by horseydug (02/05/03 09:41 PM)

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#175981 (Re: horseydug) 02/06/03 12:17 AM

OK, I only did a quick visual inspection because I was in a slight hurry this morning. All looked good, but I'll have to check it right when I pick it up tomarrow night.

2 60 amp fuses? I don't think I saw 60 amp fuses in there to be honest.

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#176489 (Re: Swazo) 02/06/03 12:26 PM

Fuse #2, 60 amp is the fan fuse.
I still think you probably have a wiring problem related to rad re % re. I'd double check connectors as well as ground connection from fan motors.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#176657 (Re: horseydug) 02/06/03 04:28 PM

Well then, I'll have to double check the wiring if you think the problem is most likely there.

The 60 amp fuse, is it a normal type of fuse? I was looking at the blade fuses and am guessing that's why I over looked the fan fuse. Well on any hand, I'll be checking all of this later on when I pic up my car from the body shop.

Thanks fir the ideas so far!

~Daymon

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#177614 (Re: Swazo) 02/07/03 07:26 AM



Eh-hem............it was the 60 amp, $4.20 dealer part. Everything is ok now!!

Thanks for helping me with my cooling issue! I must have over looked that type of fuse on my first inspection, but after knowing it'd be the #2 fuse....right when I picked my car up I checked it. It was obvious, and since I was right down the street from a Ford dealership........

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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horseydugModerator
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#177664 (Re: Swazo) 02/07/03 11:08 AM

New rad, wp, thermostat and fan fuse.
You should be a real cool dude now.

--------------------
98 Mystique LS v6 atx 163,000km
97 Contour LX v6 atx 163,000km

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Swazo
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Re: I think my water pump is going out,,,,,,,,, new
#178738 (Re: horseydug) 02/08/03 05:23 PM




--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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