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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Riddel me this...
#1298640 - 08/11/06 05:45 PM

And my problems continue. I don't know how much longer I can put up with this...

My car was missfiring (cylinder 6) and running lean. So I did a complete UIM/LIM rebuild and replaced that injector. I also replaced plugs and wires. The car continued to misfire... so I brought the coil to Autozone and they said it was bad. So I replaced that too. Of course, the car still misfires. So that is where I am at with the misfire.

Also, when my key is turned off, the car continues to run smoothly. You cna rev the engine and it run fine. Except the RPM gauge reads 0 as soon as you turn the key to off. Sometimes after this happens, the door switch lights will stay on and you can also turn on the air and heat. So I replaced the ignition switch, but no luck.

Any ideas before I go crazy!?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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todras
I have no life

Reged: 05/29/00
Posts: 21197
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Riddel me this... new
#1298685 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/11/06 07:25 PM

Sounds like a bad wiring harness.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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Ex-Mean'Tour
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Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 1593
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Re: Riddle me this... new
#1298749 (Re: todras) 08/11/06 09:14 PM

Originally posted by todras:
Sounds like a bad wiring harness.




Ow, say it ain't so!

--------------------
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4


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2X95SEs
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Reged: 10/27/00
Posts: 770
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Riddel me this... new
#1298856 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/11/06 11:46 PM

Sounds like 2 separate problems. A power relay may be hanging up keeping the computer alive. The tach runs off of the PIP signal that runs the ignition. First time I ever seen a computer driven car do this! The computer must still be on because it fires the coils and injectors.
When an injector goes out the rest of the bank goes rich because of the air being pumped via the dead cylinder. The oxygen sensor says lean and the EEC tries to fix it.

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Tony2005
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Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1298868 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/12/06 12:09 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
...My car was missfiring (cylinder 6) and running lean. So I did a complete UIM/LIM rebuild and replaced that injector. I also replaced plugs and wires. The car continued to misfire... so I brought the coil to Autozone and they said it was bad. So I replaced that too. Of course, the car still misfires. So that is where I am at with the misfire.
...

Any ideas before I go crazy!?




Did you replace both Injectors 6 and 2? Or did you switch out the injectors and found out it was Injector 6 which was the problem?

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1298949 (Re: Tony2005) 08/12/06 02:38 AM

I forgot to try the number two...

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1300257 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/14/06 05:41 PM

I feel like this is an episode of Unsolved Mysteries... I still can't figure out what is wrong with my car and its time for an UPDATE.

As for the misfiring, I am going to try and switch the injectors around so that the new one is in the #2 position and the #6 has an injector that definatly works.

As for the never shutting off, the new ignition switch did not fix the problem and the relay seems to be fine. But it seems as if the relay is always on because when u disconnect the battery or the relay, it clicks on as soon as either is reattached. Is this normal? Should it always be getting power?

My big question now is: Could this all be related to a bad computer?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1300582 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/15/06 01:51 AM

Does anyone have an idea?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
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Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1300625 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/15/06 02:36 AM

For the ignition issue, check the wiring under the Power Distribution Box next to the battery and Passenger compartment fuse box left of steering column under dash.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1300630 (Re: Tony2005) 08/15/06 02:44 AM

Phew... finally a response. Thanks Tony2005.

One question though: What would I be looking for?


By the way, I found this: http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1115796&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

SAME EXACT problem, but I don't have a remote starter.

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

Edited by cannondalemtb (08/15/06 02:51 AM)

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Tony2005
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Reged: 06/19/05
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Re: Riddle me this... new
#1300651 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/15/06 03:06 AM

The thread has btrautment saying that the relays could be partially fused. You should check out that ticking relay.

In addition, the wires under the fuse boxes. You are checking for wires with broken or no insulation. If one is "cross feeding", you may have power all the time. Our Contours have a wiring harness issue.

Have you checked the Injectors yet?

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301174 (Re: Tony2005) 08/15/06 11:00 PM

Well I checked out all the wiring near and under the engine compartment fuse box and they looked pretty good. But then after staring at the Hayne's manual, I realized that the things that are getting power, are all those that use relays in the passenger fuse box. I then futher investigated to find the exact wire that is sending power to these relays. And so I took some pictures:







It is the one with the red and green wires. Anyone know why these wires would be supplying power?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301224 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/16/06 12:52 AM

From Passenger compartment fuse box, Fuse 30/Green wire goes to ignition switch. Fuse 34 in Passenger Compartment Fuse Box has Red wire which comes from Fuse 1 (Main power supply) in Power Distribution Box.

Maybe the cross feed is in this connector. Does this connector seem to be in bad shape?

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301290 (Re: Tony2005) 08/16/06 02:12 AM

Well I pulled the connector that those wires are connected to and the functions such as the wipers and heater blower and stuff, no longer worked. I don't think this has anything to do with fuses. The wires don't seem to be going out, but rather in. And that is why they have constant power which is giving power to those relays.

I think...

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301323 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/16/06 02:39 AM

Was the ignition switch you installed, new or was it a used part?

Relay 16 (Black color) in the passenger compartment fuse box is for the ignition. I would try changing that and see if it helps. I think it is $30 or so.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (08/16/06 02:52 AM)

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301335 (Re: Tony2005) 08/16/06 02:47 AM

It was new. But all the things that those relays control are all on until i remove that wire. Then they no longer work.

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
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Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
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Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301338 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/16/06 02:54 AM

Yes, it could be the relay or a cross feed from wires which go to the relay. Note, I edited the price for the relay in earlier post.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1301345 (Re: Tony2005) 08/16/06 03:01 AM

I can understand how the ignition relay would keep the car running. But what I don't get is how a bad ignition relay would cause all the other relays to stay on as well. I need to find out if that wire should have constant power before I go out and spend $30 on a new relay that I might not need.

Can someone do me a huge favor and test this wire for me as soon as possible? Thanks!

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

Edited by cannondalemtb (08/16/06 03:04 AM)

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302014 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/17/06 02:18 AM

Can anyone help me?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302067 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/17/06 03:05 AM

I'll try a little more since nobody else is chiming in.

I looked at the Ford CD diagram for the A/C-Heater. The green wire goes to the Power Distribution Box and another goes to the ignition switch. The red goes to the battery positive (so this means that the connector end should have power all the time). The green wire which goes to the PDB (Fuse 4 igniton) should have power but the one which goes to the ignition switch should not have power unless the key is in the acc or run/on position.

In your case, even when the ignition is not turned to run/on, the heater blower will come on when you turn on the blower switch. Now, did you say that the blower turns on when you turn to A/c or Panel, and was it at the red or blue side when that happens. (Trying to determine if it is a heater circuit or a/c circuit which has the cross feed). If it set to the blue side, and it does not come on during the Panel, then the cross feed could be from the heater circuit. If the blower comes on, then the cross feed could be from a/c circuit.


You should check the wiring under the passenger compartment fuse box again.

In addition, I remember you had a issue with the lights on the door not turning off. I think you should check the headlamp switch. It could be broken and that has a free safety recall if yours has not been changed yet. Call your dealer or register at www.fordvehicles.com to see if you are covered.

From Ford CD to diagnose a NON-OPERATIVE door lights.
PINPOINT TEST CA: ALL INSIDE HANDLE LAMPS, DOOR LOCK AND WINDOW SWITCH ILLUMINATION INOPERATIVE

² CA1: CHECK OUTPUT OF FUSE 31 (7.5A)
² CA2: CHECK INPUT TO FUSE 31 (7.5A)
² CA3: CHECK HEADLAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
² CA4: CHECK INPUT TO HEADLAMP SWITCH

Edit. Read this.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1172316&Forum=trouble&Words=headlamp%20switch&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=1172187&Search=true#Post1172316

and this for a how to from Autozone
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/d1/17/0900823d801bd117.jsp

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (08/17/06 03:10 AM)

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302075 (Re: Tony2005) 08/17/06 03:11 AM

Tony... the door lights DO work. That is part of the problem. If you look at the passenger fuse box, look at all the relays. All the things that those relays control are stuck on... all the time. So this means that the wiper motor, the blower, the interior lights, as well as the ignition have constant power and will not shut off when the car is turned off.

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
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Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302080 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/17/06 03:14 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
Tony... the door lights DO work. That is part of the problem. If you look at the passenger fuse box, look at all the relays. All the things that those relays control are stuck on... all the time. So this means that the wiper motor, the blower, the interior lights, as well as the ignition have constant power and will not shut off when the car is turned off.




Yes, I know the lights do work, I am thinking that maybe the cross feed is at the headlamp switch or wires near that. You should take out the headlamp switch, connectors and wiring to check so that you can rule that out. Follow the posted links.

Edit. Normally at this point, I would suggest sending it in to the dealer, but after the fiasco with ExMeanTour , I am hesistant to suggest that.

And this is a shout out to F111D F and his wiring diagrams for help.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (08/17/06 03:19 AM)

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302094 (Re: Tony2005) 08/17/06 03:29 AM

Well you are trying to look at all the problems as being seperate and not as one big problem. It seems to me that all these things that are stuck on are related to one bigger thing. I dont think that replacing the headlamp switch, replacing the ignition relay, and all this other stuff is going to help. I think that the problem is that red wire that has constant power even when the key is in the OFF position. But I'm not sure if it is supposed to get constant power or not. That is why I need someone to their's for me.

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302108 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/17/06 03:40 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
...I think that the problem is that red wire that has constant power even when the key is in the OFF position. But I'm not sure if it is supposed to get constant power or not. That is why I need someone to their's for me.




Originally posted by Tony2005:
...I looked at the Ford CD diagram for the A/C-Heater. The green wire goes to the Power Distribution Box and another goes to the ignition switch. The red goes to the battery positive (so this means that the connector end should have power all the time). The green wire which goes to the PDB (Fuse 4 igniton) should have power but the one which goes to the ignition switch should not have power unless the key is in the acc or run/on position.
...




--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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Ex-Mean'Tour
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 1593
Loc: Massachusetts
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302236 (Re: Tony2005) 08/17/06 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Tony2005:


Edit. Normally at this point, I would suggest sending it in to the dealer, but after the fiasco with ExMeanTour , I am hesistant to suggest that.






He is well aware of what happened to me, Cannondalemtb is my little bro-in-law and lives in the same town as that POS dealer.

Cdale -- I wish I could help you.

--------------------
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4


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Tony2005
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Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302516 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/17/06 07:00 PM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:





Okay, I tested this just now.

In this picture, the red has power when grounded or jumped to the green even with no key in ignition.

The green does not have power when grounded, without key in ignition or with key turned to on/run. If you have power, then you should look for a cross feed from the green wire (follow the wiring diagram to locate). Actually, the first thing to check is whether the connector is broken inside.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (08/17/06 07:03 PM)

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1302833 (Re: Tony2005) 08/18/06 03:35 AM

When I tested it... only the red had power when it was grounded to another source. The green wire did not. Therefore, I thought that the green wire was a ground. Is this not so?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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cannondalemtb
CEG'er

Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 190
Loc: N. Attleboro, Ma
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1303430 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/20/06 01:38 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
When I tested it... only the red had power when it was grounded to another source. The green wire did not. Therefore, I thought that the green wire was a ground. Is this not so?




Anyone? Tony2005?

--------------------
1998 Silver Frost CSVT
#4427 of 6535
Born January 15, 1998

AIM: cannondale828

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1303438 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/20/06 01:52 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
When I tested it... only the red had power when it was grounded to another source. The green wire did not. Therefore, I thought that the green wire was a ground. Is this not so?




Anyone? Tony2005?



Ground is usually black. As posted earlier, it goes to ignition switch and Power Distribution Box (Ignition Relay and Diode?)

Edit. As for other suggestions, I think that's it, from me. You should try some of the suggestions and see if it takes you somewhere. I am sure someone else will chime in with some better suggestions (eventually).

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (08/20/06 02:06 AM)

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Ex-Mean'Tour
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 1593
Loc: Massachusetts
Re: Riddle me this... new
#1305540 (Re: cannondalemtb) 08/24/06 03:02 AM

Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
Originally posted by cannondalemtb:
When I tested it... only the red had power when it was grounded to another source. The green wire did not. Therefore, I thought that the green wire was a ground. Is this not so?




Anyone? Tony2005?




So Bobby, whassup? What's the verdict on the car?

--------------------
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4


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