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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1216084 (Re: Contour_dave) 04/14/06 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Contour_dave:
...
4) Somewhere on the board I saw that if you disconnect the upper 02 sensor and it runs better the problem is ????something????, any help here?
...





Plugged exhaust test.
For the Duratec, a good cheap way is to remove the O2 sensors, in this order (and see if the performance improves).

1) Uninstall Bank 2 lower (radiator side) to determine if main cat is plugged,
2) Reinstall Bank 2 lower and then uninstall Bank 2 upper (radiator) to determine if Bank 2 precat is plugged,
3) Reinstall Bank 2 upper and then uninstall Bank 1 upper (hardest one, close to firewall) to determine if bank 1 precat is plugged.

You don't need to mess with bank 1 lower as bank 2 lower will also be a test of that issue too (if it is an issue). Battery needs to be disconnected before uninstalling and installing O2 sensors. Good luck.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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tsSVT
CEG'er

Reged: 01/31/04
Posts: 218
Loc: oklahoma city
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing
#1216108 (Re: Tony2005) 04/14/06 06:12 PM

Like he said,sounds like the pre-cats are clogged,My car is exibiting similar problems only my car doesn't miss,or die.It stubbles and the CEL flashes.My rear bank pre-cat is clogged,and will soon be replaced by WR Headers.

--------------------
2000 Silver SVT

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Contour_dave
New CEG'er

Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Shawnee, Ks
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1216115 (Re: tsSVT) 04/14/06 06:20 PM

Thanks for the help with process. I am trying to make sense of the symptoms with the cause. Would plugged exhaust (cat/pre-cat) cause the symptoms to become noticeably worse in warm weather?



--------------------
Better to ask a question and be THOUGHT a fool for 5 minutes than to never ask and BE a fool for life.

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1216122 (Re: Contour_dave) 04/14/06 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Contour_dave:
... Would plugged exhaust (cat/pre-cat) cause the symptoms to become noticeably worse in warm weather?





No. If it weather related, most probably a vacuum leak or Intake Air Temperature sensor problem.

--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


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Contour_dave
New CEG'er

Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Shawnee, Ks
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1217375 (Re: Tony2005) 04/17/06 02:39 AM

Now the thing is missing again (I put in Bosch Platinums 2 weeks ago). I got some new plug wires and am going to install them tomorrow. How do you test the temperature sensor...any quick and easy ways?

Thanks

--------------------
Better to ask a question and be THOUGHT a fool for 5 minutes than to never ask and BE a fool for life.

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Tony2005
Addicted CEG'er

Reged: 06/19/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: Virginia, USA
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1217398 (Re: Contour_dave) 04/17/06 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Contour_dave:
... How do you test the temperature sensor...any quick and easy ways?

Thanks




http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/ca/f8/0900823d801bcaf8.jsp

According to Haynes, at 38 F, the resistance should be 35 to 40 K-ohms, at 182 F (1.9 to 2.5 K-ohms) and 218 F (1.0 to 1.3 K-ohms).

And since the PCM uses both the MAF and IAT to determine the amount of fuel to achieve the ideal air/fuel mixture ratio, you might as well clean the MAF sensor while you are at it.

MAF sensor
http://www.contour.org/mods/mods.php?s=howto&displayid=36
and
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=zetecmaint&Number=989728&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
and
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1b/cb/25/0900823d801bcb25.jsp


--------------------
"Always do the cheap and easy ones first."

1996 V6 ATX 96K miles


Edited by Tony2005 (04/17/06 03:34 AM)

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Contour_dave
New CEG'er

Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Shawnee, Ks
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1220222 (Re: Tony2005) 04/20/06 01:20 AM

OK folks, I replaced the plug wires as the thing was missing all the time. The hesitation and sputtering stopped. Took it out in the evening after changing the wires and it ran like a new car for 2 days. Yesterday, it got up a little over 90 degrees here and, it was running good, and then just started sputtering and dying. Wait 5 minutes, start it up and drive it a couple miles further and dies again. Finally gave up, waited until last night after it got down under about 65 degrees, starts and runs like a new car again, no problems at all. Talked to a mechanic at autozone this evening and he was pointing at the fuel pump. I can't see or hear any vacuum leaks. It has always seemed to me that the problem with it dying and then not starting occured when there was less than a half tank of gas, but ???? Glad it runs great when it's cold out, but summer's coming fast.

--------------------
Better to ask a question and be THOUGHT a fool for 5 minutes than to never ask and BE a fool for life.

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projectSHO89
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/19/02
Posts: 1788
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1220479 (Re: Contour_dave) 04/20/06 12:10 PM

You found a mechanic in AutoZone????

Don't be surprised if those Bosch plugs come back and bite you in the ass.

Get a fuel pressure guage and hook it up when the car won't run. That you'll know if you have a fuel delivery issue instead of guessing.

Steve

--------------------
98 Contour SE Sport 2.5 Duratec ATX The wifey's car
89 Taurus SHO - 246K miles
94 SHO ATX - 190K
1997 F-150 5.4L ATX - The Workhorse 150K.


ANY THREAD WITH "OMG" or "WTF" ETC IN THE TITLE WILL BE IGNORED!

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Contour_dave
New CEG'er

Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Shawnee, Ks
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1221076 (Re: projectSHO89) 04/20/06 10:58 PM

Mechanic at Autozone? Yeah, some independent guy in there getting parts...struck up a conversation with when he asked about the symptoms. Actually it was an O'Reilly's

"Bosch platinums" - Why is this a problem and what kind of byte am I going to get?

Fuel pressure gauge...the guy at the parts store looked at me with that "what the h*** are you talking about" when I said it needed a schraeder-type connector. Their price was $42 for the only gauge they carry but happened to be out of stock. Any suggestions on where to go to get a good economical gauge and correct connector where they won't look at me funny?

--------------------
Better to ask a question and be THOUGHT a fool for 5 minutes than to never ask and BE a fool for life.

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Jimboh
Newbie

Reged: 05/14/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Missing, sputtering, dying, CEL flashing new
#1238524 (Re: Contour_dave) 05/14/06 04:15 PM

I believe I have the same problem as contour dave. I am very interested in the solution.

My engine runs fine until it reaches a certain operating temperature. For example driving for hours on the highway is no problem. Driving in the city and idling around, the engine temperature rises to a certain point and then the sputtering and dying happens. It seems to be running lean and no amount of throttle will keep the engine alive. The car must sit and cool down, from minutes to hours, before it will restart. No CEL, no codes in memory.

As a poor boy fuel pressure test during a stall no start conditon I depressed the schraedder valve and got a good mist of fuel spray. Not sure if that could rule out the fuel pump as a culprit.

All suggestions welcome.

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