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avu3
CEG'er

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Green Valley, Cali
_really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion check
#1176944 - 02/24/06 06:35 AM

Hi Guys,

While warming the car up this am ('98 se sport v6 atx) it just started running horribly. Shaking violently, won't rev (afraid to push it) CEL flashing (never seen that before!) and raw fuel (fuel, not water) coming out the tail pipe.

Pull codes and get

p0353 ignition coil primary/secondary circuit
p0302 cylinder 2 misfire
p0306 cylinder 6 misfire
p0174 bank 2 too lean
p0171 bank 1 too lean

I'm guessing this leads to a bad coil based on searching, but I only saw one other reference to 0353, and there was no resolution. 0302 had a few referencing plugs/wires (oe plugs, 2 months old, oe wires, about 20k on those)

Thoughts? opinions? I saw a resistance spec on coil testing for the zetec, anyone have similar for the v6? Can't find my shop manual.

Thanks, as always

Scott

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Rogerm60
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 10/11/02
Posts: 2408
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion check new
#1176992 (Re: avu3) 02/24/06 12:16 PM

There are three coils with seperate connections in the pack.
Primary < 1 ohm (look for a complete open)
Secondary ~ 13K ohms (would have to be way out)

Make sure that your wires or plugs are not damaged.

Before you attempt to do anything else, make sure you have cranked it some with the plugs in and the fuel pump relay out to clear the system - or - BOOM!

Do not run the starter for more than 10 seconds at a time to avoid overheating it.

I recommend that you pull the fuel pump relay and all plugs. Then test each plug on it's wire for spark.



--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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projectSHO89
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/19/02
Posts: 1788
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion check new
#1177022 (Re: avu3) 02/24/06 01:19 PM

My bet would be the coil, the PCM, and the interconnectig harness in that order.

Coil # 3 fires cylinders # 2 & 6, all of which have codes. Sounds like a dead coil section.

The P0171 & P0174 may or may not be related to the greater current failure. Fix the big one first, get it going, then see if these codes come back, addressing them if required.

The flashing CEL indicates a major misfire, one that is capable of damaging the engine. Don't run it.

Clear the system of fuel as described and see what happens.

Steve

--------------------
98 Contour SE Sport 2.5 Duratec ATX The wifey's car
89 Taurus SHO - 246K miles
94 SHO ATX - 190K
1997 F-150 5.4L ATX - The Workhorse 150K.


ANY THREAD WITH "OMG" or "WTF" ETC IN THE TITLE WILL BE IGNORED!

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2X95SEs
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 10/27/00
Posts: 770
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion check new
#1177054 (Re: projectSHO89) 02/24/06 02:27 PM

The coil pack went bad on Tour #2 years ago. Half of one of the coils broke or the link from the coil to the tower. It was running on 5 cylinders.

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Gerry_M
New CEG'er

Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 23
Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion check new
#1177176 (Re: avu3) 02/24/06 04:40 PM

My coils went bad at 65,000 miles.
Like you, flashing CEL (which is REAL bad!) and multiple OBD-ii codes for misfires, etc. etc.

The Ford $tealership replaced them AND I told them to also change the HEI wires.

The engine has been running fine ever since.

Be careful, tho, because you have been introducing neat fuel into the cats -- that THEY might start acting up and you might get 'catalytic converter operating below efficiency' codes like p0420 in the near future.

G.




--------------------
1997 Ford Contour SE V6
K+N
Michelin MXV4's
95,000 miles


Edited by Gerry_M (02/24/06 04:41 PM)

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avu3
CEG'er

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Green Valley, Cali
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion c new
#1177268 (Re: Gerry_M) 02/24/06 05:49 PM

Thanks guys. I'd read about the cat/fuel issue before but didn't think about it in my own situation. Doh.

Anyway, OE ford from a discounter the coil is $88. Cheapest I can find locally for aftermarket is $107. Guess I'll be ordering one.

The cats already throw codes about efficency, I'm sure they both need to be replaced but to heck with it.

Scott

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avu3
CEG'er

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Green Valley, Cali
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion c new
#1177861 (Re: avu3) 02/25/06 07:28 AM

After testing the coil and finding it not in spec, I replaced it.

Now the car won't run at all. Won't catch.

As suggested I fired it with the FP relay out. While cranking I noticed that it does not turn over rythmically. Its cadence is not right. I'm guess something must be broken inside the engine or one of the cats collapsed and is fully blocked or something.

what the heck do I test next? Wiring I guess, or compression maybe?

This car has had problems with the wiring harness, I had to splice a new ground in for the IACV not too long ago.

Scott

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Rogerm60
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 10/11/02
Posts: 2408
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion c new
#1177877 (Re: avu3) 02/25/06 10:38 AM

Did you verify spark with the new coil before restoring fuel? Is the firing order correct? Doublecheck!

You may have cylinder wall washdown in the effected cylinders. Pull the plugs and squirt a 1/4 ounce of oil in the cylinders to see if that gets rid of the lumps. If not, go ahead with a compression test.


As to the fuel - the cat only reacts when it gets hot so once you get it to fire up, shut it off after one minute and let it sit for ten. Do that several times to blow raw fuel out. If you don't the cat may glow red and fry bigtime!

--------------------
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

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avu3
CEG'er

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Green Valley, Cali
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion c new
#1178331 (Re: Rogerm60) 02/26/06 05:23 AM

Firing order is correct. Did not test spark on the plug, don't have a tool and wanted someone around to help.

This thread/post describes EXACTLY my situation. perhaps my LIM gaskets are blown out. Its been super cold here the past week or so.

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1177932&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

Scott

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avu3
CEG'er

Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Green Valley, Cali
Re: _really_ rough running, CE light V6 Opinion c new
#1178543 (Re: avu3) 02/26/06 06:25 PM

Cylinders 2 & 6 are not firing. All others are.

I have a new coil

Guess that means either the harness or the PCM.

I can't find voltage/current draw specs for any of the wiring going to the coil. There are three and they all tie back to the PCM, I guess they signal when the coil should fire.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Scott

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