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Modifications >> Suspension

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
back end sag.....bad springs????
#1260924 - 06/16/06 08:04 PM

Ever since I got the 'Tour back in 04 with 33,000 miles on it, the back end has been sagging. It has since gotten worse and with any kind of a load no matter how light it is, it will be weighted down like theres a Giraffe in the back. With one person in the back seat, it will go down on the spring bout .5-1 inch or so, with 2 people the wheel is easily in the wheelwell. heres the scary part-when braking hard from high speeds (I've only done this once and won't do it agin til i fix it) the back end will go up to the piont where it scares me and I have to fight with the steering wheel to keep it from stepping out!! Taht was empty, from 85-90mph with the pedal bout 3/4 way down, and a almost wet seat! There seems to be decent body roll too, but it could jsut be the way these cars are although I drove a Stratus coupe that didn't roll quite as bad. Anyway, I searched and am guessing I need to replace the rear springs. Is this the struts and springs that are bad, or just the springs that are bad? I can sit on the front and it won't go down at all, like it should be. When I push the back of the car down it will go down quite a bit then up and stop, instead of bouncing up and down like something with bad struts would (like my Explorer with bad shocks used to do). So is this the springs in the back? Or the whole strut/spring setup? 50,000 miles, 95 LX V6 suspension hasn't been touched (except by WD-40). Let me know if you need more info. thanks.

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Pale Horse
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 702
Loc: Somewhere Bleeding Mercon 5
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1260989 (Re: Blue Goose) 06/16/06 09:56 PM

It Sounds To Me Like Springs Are The Culprit...There's No Clunking Noises? Does The Back End Feel Like It Bottoms Out Over Bumps? Around Corners?

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CSVT E0 3L
14.5 @ 94mph, Stock Intake, Stock Exhaust minus Resonator, CEL, And Broken Pass. Side CV...Untuned.


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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1261377 (Re: Pale Horse) 06/17/06 10:09 PM

WEll, with the Potenza 225's it will rub with 2 people in hte back with a significant bump, and I believe I have heard the wheel hit the fender before empty beofre, but I'm not sure. it can't take any kind of load at all. with anything in the trunk it looks like I'm smuggling people from Mexico it sags so much. Any idea how much I'm looking at for new sprrings? I'm gonna install them my self. I have a spring compressor, anything else besids basic tools I need? But I think its the springs too. Intresting why they havn't lasted very many miles. oh well, as ong as I fix it.

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Big Jim
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/03/00
Posts: 4693
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California, USA
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1261484 (Re: Blue Goose) 06/18/06 02:43 AM

Sometimes rear tire rubbing on the rear area of the fender liner can be helped by pulling the fender closer to the car, creating more arch in the fender liner.

I solved my ocassional rubbing problem by using a large nylon wire tie on each side. A bracket could be fabricated as well. The tie attaches to the frame at one end and to a hole I drilled in the fender liner slightly below the lower rear attaching screw. Actually I used three ties on each side, one short one on each end, and a very long one in the middle. The short ones to make the attachment and the long one to make the adjustment. I sucked the fender in about an inch.

If you want to see how much difference this will make, stick you head under the rear of the wheel well and look at the fender liner while you have a friend push the fender in from the back lower corner.

--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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Mustang
CEG'er

Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Disconnecticut
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1261559 (Re: Big Jim) 06/18/06 07:00 AM

Struts won't cause sag but springs will. Just grab a tape measure and check the differences in height from each wheel arch to the garage floor. If the rears are lower than the fronts, sag.. If 1 rear is even lower, reach in there and feel for a broken spring. An old CEG'er showed me this trick.

Special tools..18mm 1/2" drive 6 point socket, 1/2" drive breaker bar and a long pipe to crack the lower strut pinch bolt. Also an 18mm box end wrench and a 6mm allen wrench for the spring perch. You have the spring compressors so the rest is just standard stuff.

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262338 (Re: Mustang) 06/19/06 07:37 PM

Well, I'm going to replace the springs then. I;m thinking
JC Whitney is cheapest, and I want to keep the car stock height (easier to bog through snow and ground clearence is a plus where I take this car), but I am open to any suggestions as far as where to buy and what kind. Yes, I'm gonna do a search too. as far as your suggestion, Jim, I dind't clarify that its not rubbing on the liner, rather the actual metal part of the fender, but on the inside of it because the tires are too wide and thats what hits first. I don't really know how to expalin it, but basically if I roll my fenders more than I have already it should take care of it. The sag is bad enough that you can see the car is lower in the back without a tape measure from any distance, but I will do it anyway just to be sure tonight. Thanks for the help guys, I'll let ya know how it goes. Oh btw, I'm guessing afternoon project? or is it more like all day? I am mechanically enclined enough to be able to do it as I have done much more than this, but I take my time when doing stuff like this.

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Pudmunkie
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/10/04
Posts: 1978
Loc: SEMIEGLOLlerskates
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262400 (Re: Blue Goose) 06/19/06 09:18 PM

Be careful when you roll your fenders more. Ive gotten to the point on rolling the fenders that its beginning to pusht he edge of the bumper out too far and looks like more ass then it did when it was just bumper sag :-p.

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Alex
'99 SVT Contour

-=|WANTED: Vortech, working or not |=-

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Harrry
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 07/14/04
Posts: 1651
Loc: Down by the river!!
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262416 (Re: Pudmunkie) 06/19/06 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
Be careful when you roll your fenders more. Ive gotten to the point on rolling the fenders that its beginning to pusht he edge of the bumper out too far and looks like more ass then it did when it was just bumper sag :-p.




Its not the car. It's the fat people you keep pulling around with you

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I reject your reality and substitute my own.



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Berkel
CEG'er

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 344
Loc: Toledo
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262421 (Re: Mustang) 06/19/06 10:20 PM

Originally posted by Mustang:
Struts won't cause sag but springs will.



Really? I've always heard it was my struts that were causing the sagging on my tour and my springs are barely a few years old.

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98.5 T. Red Contour SVT
Lowered on FSVT's
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2154233

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Pudmunkie
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/10/04
Posts: 1978
Loc: SEMIEGLOLlerskates
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262427 (Re: Harrry) 06/19/06 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Rickson:
Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
Be careful when you roll your fenders more. Ive gotten to the point on rolling the fenders that its beginning to pusht he edge of the bumper out too far and looks like more ass then it did when it was just bumper sag :-p.




Its not the car. It's the fat people you keep pulling around with you





PFFFT, its these damn sexy wheels and their stupid offset!

But seriously, anyone other than my 97lb gf in the passenger seat + me and it will rub on anything but granny driving.

--------------------
Alex
'99 SVT Contour

-=|WANTED: Vortech, working or not |=-

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Mustang
CEG'er

Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Disconnecticut
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262497 (Re: Berkel) 06/20/06 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Berkel:
Originally posted by Mustang:
Struts won't cause sag but springs will.



Really? I've always heard it was my struts that were causing the sagging on my tour and my springs are barely a few years old.




Struts are pressurized but not enough to raise the ride height all that much. Springs hold the car up or maybe I got it backwards Gravity sucks.

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hmouta
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/09/01
Posts: 4639
Loc: Waterbury,CT
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1262629 (Re: Mustang) 06/20/06 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Mustang:
Originally posted by Berkel:
Originally posted by Mustang:
Struts won't cause sag but springs will.



Really? I've always heard it was my struts that were causing the sagging on my tour and my springs are barely a few years old.




Struts are pressurized but not enough to raise the ride height all that much. Springs hold the car up or maybe I got it backwards Gravity sucks.


i that that sounds right. if the car is sagging just parked, the springs may be shot. if the struts r shot, you'll notice on dips. u can push down on the car and see if it pops up quickly instead of taking a long time to rebound. if the springs r shot, the struts might've worn out too as a result

--------------------
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1263054 (Re: hmouta) 06/20/06 07:07 PM

The car sags while park, but come to think of it the back end does take a little longer to go up then thr front when you push down on it, not much but a little. I think its still the springs and really hope the struts are ok cuase thats more money then I want to pay right now. I have searched quite a bit and I'm still in the dark on a few things-can I get just SVT springs and put them on the car, or do I have to change the struts, sway bars etc? And If that is a no, I can put SE springs on there, right? After going to the team ford website, I think they are the cheapest and will probally go with them. Does Bill J give us an additional discount in addition to the one the website gives us?

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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hmouta
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/09/01
Posts: 4639
Loc: Waterbury,CT
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1264170 (Re: Blue Goose) 06/22/06 05:30 AM

to run post98 springs on a pre98 you have to use post98 struts, doesnt matter if its se or svt. and i'd guess vice versa. if the back end takes a while to come up, sounds like the struts r going out. if the springs were shot, the struts likely blew out as a result.

--------------------
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1280200 (Re: hmouta) 07/17/06 03:49 PM

I know this was dead a while ago but I have just one more question-I am going to put SE springs on there, but is it worth it to swap out the struts and springs with SVT? Is the performance difference that much? Because I'm a poor college kid I want to put off buying new struts as long as I can, but I also want to up grade when I replace things on this car, especially since it handles pretty good. Also, would it matter that I'm putting more performance-oriented suspension in the back and leaving the front alone?

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Big Jim
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/03/00
Posts: 4693
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California, USA
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1280783 (Re: Blue Goose) 07/18/06 04:45 AM

The 95 SE struts and springs are stiffer than the SVT struts and springs. No, there is no advantage in moving to the SVT suspension parts. Actually I wuld like to have a set of rear SE springs on my SVT. I could use a little stiffer rear suspension.

--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1280904 (Re: Big Jim) 07/18/06 12:55 PM

Allright, thanks Jim. I'm gonna order the springs today and hopefully get them in before I head back to MN. Thanks to everybody else for your help too, now I'll finally get rid of that stupid sag and have a safer car when I have to slam the brakes again.

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1282460 (Re: Blue Goose) 07/20/06 02:24 PM

Allright guys, last question i promise then I'll quit asking questions. Talked to my dad last night and he strongly recommended me replacing the struts with the springs becuase of the mileage (53000) and age too. It makes sense I guess to me even though I really don't want to spend the extra money, its probally better now when I have it apart vs. taking it apart later. My question is should I go ahead and replace the strut with the springs too? If so, do I need anything else besides the strut like the strut mount or anything like that? thanks for all the help and I'll leave ya guys alone after this! (unless I have some serious installation probs)

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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Big Jim
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/03/00
Posts: 4693
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California, USA
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1282764 (Re: Blue Goose) 07/20/06 10:48 PM

On the fronts, it is a good idea to replace the strut bearings (helps the struts turn with the steering wheel). They are not that expensive, and will make you pull the strut again if they ever get noisy. The bushings probably should be replaced as well. If you need to install the front camber kits, now is the time for this as well since they go on top of the front struts. The camber kits include the front bushings.

Inspect the bushings and ball joints in the front lower "A" arms. If the bushings are collapsed or if the ball joints are loose, this is a good time for them too, although you don't have to pull the struts down to change the "A" arms, you will have part of it loose to remove the struts.

--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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Blue Goose
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/04/04
Posts: 503
Loc: I. Falls, MN/GF, ND
Re: back end sag.....bad springs???? new
#1285558 (Re: Big Jim) 07/25/06 02:47 PM

Ok, how bout the back? I have the order ready and jsut have to click submit, but I want to do this right and not leave anything out. There is minimul to no rust on any suspension components, but the boots are long gone. do these come with the strut or do I but those too?

--------------------
95 LX-with a mind of its own
24v DOHC
SVT exhaust and K&N=all thats worth modding

Go Fighting Sioux!!!

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