Contour Enthusiasts Group CEG

General >> General

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | >> (show all)
Mad_Medeiros
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 12/26/02
Posts: 1741
Loc: Ontario.
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#724701 (Re: Andy W.) 09/28/04 03:09 AM

Originally posted by Andy W.:
Originally posted by Mad_Medeiros:
I hate fwd in snow, thats my preferance..... I crashed my old golf into MANY snow banks a couple years ago because of DAMN oversteer! where I would just go straigt into the snow bank.. or down an incline..

when I had my 240 RWD... nissan, I felt much safer in the snow, even tough thats probably not true to people who can't drive!

lol its just different, with my 240, I could always AIM where I want to go.. pop the back end out and always keep her steady... I do admit RWD was more fun in the snow to!

FWD
my mx-3 sucks.




Oversteer with FWD! LOL! That takes talent. You really don't know what you are tlakin about you. Whipping the rear out is oversteer.

-Andy




oversteer, understeer, I seem to always get them mixed.. I stand corrected.. you know what I meant

bahhhh rwd is better!

--------------------
1997 Civic CX (lsvtec,el frontend,fast, nuff said)

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
PlatoSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#724825 (Re: Mad_Medeiros) 09/28/04 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Mad_Medeiros:

oversteer, understeer, I seem to always get them mixed.. I stand corrected.. you know what I meant

bahhhh rwd is better!




Not in snow it isn't. But from a "car enthusiast" point of view, of course RWD is better.

--------------------
* Marine Officer Candidate *
My Cardomain Page

1998 EO Black SVTC #3388

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
XKontour98
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/18/02
Posts: 3709
Loc: Rochester, Minnesota
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#724851 (Re: topgunz_1) 09/28/04 06:01 AM

Originally posted by topgunz_1:
I think SEL is the medium level model





LOL I remember the first time i saw an SEL trim level was on a Windstar...I was like maybe its a hint...Sell the d@mn thing before its too late!

--------------------
Originally posted by Chickens:
Religion can't do much for ashholes (unless you are an alterboy)















98.5 Se w/SVT mods
98 E0 SVT~ sold


Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Phil Rohtla
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#724921 (Re: PlatoSVT) 09/28/04 12:22 PM

Two personal opinions: The Ford 500 will NOT be a smash due to extremely blah styling and too little power to compete in the class (people read the numbers, and for the same money they will often go for more horsepower).

The second opinion is that I really prefer RWD to FWD in the snow. And yes I have driven both. You lose traction to the front wheels in an FWD, and you can't brake or steer, which are the more important parts of the job. You lose rear-wheel traction, and you still have a couple of options.

And I use snow tires. Cheap life insurance.

--------------------
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed

"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"

"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Andy W.
b0x @dm1n

Reged: 07/19/00
Posts: 4397
Loc: Columbia, MD
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#724975 (Re: Phil Rohtla) 09/28/04 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Phil Rohtla:
The second opinion is that I really prefer RWD to FWD in the snow. And yes I have driven both. You lose traction to the front wheels in an FWD, and you can't brake or steer, which are the more important parts of the job. You lose rear-wheel traction, and you still have a couple of options.




Um, the braking systems are the same. If you can slow down with the brakes in a FWD you can't do it with RWD. The difference is only under acceleration.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Phil Rohtla
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#725022 (Re: Andy W.) 09/28/04 02:49 PM

Yes, the braking systems are the same, but in a front wheel slide on ice in an FWD car, you can't steer, accelerate, or brake. You're sliding, and there isn't a ton you can do about it except hammer the clutch pedal and hope those wheels start to grip.

I find that RWD lessens the chances of this happening by taking acceleration out of the equation for the wheels that have to steer and do the lion's share of the braking.

--------------------
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed

"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"

"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Andy W.
b0x @dm1n

Reged: 07/19/00
Posts: 4397
Loc: Columbia, MD
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#725057 (Re: Phil Rohtla) 09/28/04 03:22 PM

WHAT!

You are either accelerating or braking! Not both! Every car is baised towards barking in the front. If you brake and start sliding, it doesn't matter which drive system you have. Absolutely none.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Phil Rohtla
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#725095 (Re: Andy W.) 09/28/04 04:18 PM

....but it makes a world of difference on acceleration, or going around turns.

Listen, I just gave my preference (note the word OPINION in my original post). If I am going to be sliding around, I find it much easier (and in some ways fun!) to catch a rear end that's coming around, than to catch a front end that has started to slide in a turn.

You'll notice by re-reading my original post that I said that when, or ONCE you have lost traction, you can't brake or steer on an FWD car, not that you lose traction when braking, and that makes it hard to brake or steer. Lose traction on the drive wheels on a rear drive car, you still have the fronts to brake and steer.

And I never said I was braking and steering at the same time. You might have been misreading and reacting at the same time, however.

If you want to continue this debate and not bore the other posters...like the Ford 500 design (sorry, couldn't resist ), PM me.

--------------------
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed

"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"

"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
RogerB
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 10/21/00
Posts: 3867
Loc: Wichita, KS
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#725109 (Re: Andy W.) 09/28/04 04:43 PM

There is a lot of misconception here on both sides. Here's the truth.

1. FWD traction is inferior, except perhaps in the case of accelerating. Asking the front tires to handle "pulling" and "turning" as well as braking or accelerating means that the front tires will reach their saturation point sooner than if the duties were split between front and rear. This is true whether the pavement is dry, wet, or snowy.

2. It doesn't matter how you are sliding, when you can't control it, you can't control it. But the failure mode of a FWD car is "better" for two reasons; a) If you plow straight ahead into a collision, you take full advantage of the car's crumple zones, unlike when you slide sideways into it, and b) the instinctive reaction of most people when they start to slide is to lift off the gas pedal. In a nose-heavy, FWD car, the car will (almost always) slow down in a nice straight line until the grip returns. In an oversteer condition, it is possible to exacerbate the problem by lifting (lift-throttle oversteer), and oversteer is more likely in a RWD car because it's more likely that the rear tires will break loose first, especially rounding a corner and speeding up at the same time.

My own experience is with two different RWD cars, and several FWDs. I never had any trouble driving my 74 Capri on slippery roads. The rear would move around, but I knew how to bring it back in, and that car was very easy to control, even without fancy electronics. My Beetles were a different story. With their rearward weight bias, they would just feel twitchy all the time on snowy or slushy roads. I felt more confident with my FWDs, but that didn't save me from plowing into the curb a couple winters ago. (Yes, I was going too fast in slush ) I let off the gas, and the car just kept going, and going... I was glad to be on the outside of the curve, at least, and not plowing into the oncoming lanes.

Bottom line: Slow down in the snow, no matter which wheels are driving.

--------------------
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE

"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Phil Rohtla
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/02
Posts: 1399
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Ford Five Hundred new
#725130 (Re: RogerB) 09/28/04 05:05 PM

Amen on slowing down in the snow. I have done some stupid bad-weather drives in my time, and have learned that discretion is the better part of valour.

I have more experience with rear drive cars than front drive, which could explain my bias towards rear drivers in bad weather. I have only lost control of a rear drive car once on the street when I wasn't playing and doing 20 km/h powerslides on empty snowy roads. My Acura Integra, I lost control a lot. Both those losses of control were before I could afford to put snow tires on a car.

And Roger, my dad ran into the same issue with his Beetle back in the 60's -- he did a full 360 on a snowy road and kept right on driving!

--------------------
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed

"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"

"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | >> (show all)


Extra information
0 registered and 21 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  GTO Pete, Trapps 

Print Thread

Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled

Thread views: 2152

Jump to

Contact Us Contour.org

*
UBB.threads™ 6.2.3

Generated in 0.056 seconds in which 0.049 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.

Copyright 1999-2005 Lance Kinley

CEG and contour.org are not affiliated with nor endorsed by Ford Motor Company