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MapOfTaziFoSho
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/01/02
Posts: 9065
Loc: The E.L.
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#60743 (Re: Nightrainlane) 10/17/02 03:37 AM

But when the EVO VII hits the US market it will be detunned for emissions standards . I'd be interested to see what a US production EVO would put out?

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Born again on 04/09/06
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kerrychin
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/24/00
Posts: 661
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#60754 (Re: Quicksilver) 10/17/02 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Low end, WRX... High end, SVT! Ever seen a WRX in action over 100mph? You haven't? That's right, it is somewhere a mile back behind the SVT.


Are you serious? Peak hp for peak hp, we lose.

And turbocharged cars are very strong once spooled up. I think we would have a hard time against a previous gen Saab 9-3 SE (205 hp 2.0L turbo) because it's computer controlled turbo allows for 5-8 seconds of overboost, so it's a really strong 205 peak hp.

I think the Subie would be even stronger.

Don't believe me? Look at one of the old C&D where the SVT was against the Saab 9-3 (185 hp) and A4 1.8T, 323i, VW Jetta VR6.

The SVT barely won the stoplight derby (0-60), but by 100 mph the Saab was quicker and it steamed on to a higher top speed than the SVT at 145 mph. And this from 185 turbocharged horses.

C&D Apr 1999.
0-60: 6.9s (SVT), 7.2 (Saab).
0-100: 19.1s (SVT), 18.4 (Saab).
1/4: 15.4s @ 91 (SVT), 15.5 @ 92 (Saab).
Top speed: 141 (SVT), 145 (Saab).

It's obvious that by the end of the 1/4 mile, the Saab is moving quicker, and that advantage will be held all the way to top speed.

By extension, I can only assume that with the 42 extra hp of the WRX over the Saab, the difference could only be greater, even if the WRX is a tad less aerodynamic.

Kerry

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99 SVT Contour Silver Frost, #365/2760, DMD
98 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro Tiptronic, 30V -- SOLD!
91 Isuzu Impulse XS Kammback, Handling By Lotus
Victoria, BC, Canada

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PXRacing
CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/01
Posts: 368
Loc: Maile, Hawaii
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#60994 (Re: kerrychin) 10/17/02 08:17 AM

Kerrychin then obviously you know nothing about cars. Seems to me untrained people constantly love to take numbers and toss them around as there basis for every argument.

If you don't already know, WRX is AWD which in English simply means FourWheelDrive!!! A AWD vehicle will always need to make up for power for it's Parasitic Loss through the complete drive train. With the WRX, there simply not the greatest top end cars as compared to the capability of an SVT. To compare a SAAB to a SVT is absurd, if you're trying to argue about all turbos in general or the WRX. Sure it may have a turbo, but does it also have AWD????? My wifes Eagle Talon TSI FWD will eat a similarly built Talon TSI AWD on the go any day, it's just simply MATH!

Since I do alot of Solo 1 & 2 Racing a have alot of Subaru Buddies, I've raced a couple of them a few times on and off the track, even against a friends slighlty modded WRX he still couldn't beat me up top..........

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CJ 2000
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 552
Loc: Port Chester, NY
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61217 (Re: PXRacing) 10/17/02 02:29 PM

4WD usually refers to something slightly different than AWD.
One is usually reserved for trucks.
The other reserved for small SUV's and cars.

4WD - Usually manually engaged...all four wheels powered.
AWD - Usually automatically engaged...a la Subaru wheels that slips to wheels that grip (that's a bit simplified, but get's the point across).

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2000 Black Contour SVT

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Andy W.
b0x @dm1n

Reged: 07/19/00
Posts: 4397
Loc: Columbia, MD
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61277 (Re: CJ 2000) 10/17/02 03:48 PM

Four wheel drive also has a high and low for better torque numbers, on top of the regular transmission gears!

-Andy

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Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
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kerrychin
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 07/24/00
Posts: 661
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61279 (Re: PXRacing) 10/17/02 03:50 PM

Originally posted by wattspxr:
Kerrychin then obviously you know nothing about cars. Seems to me untrained people constantly love to take numbers and toss them around as there basis for every argument.

If you don't already know, WRX is AWD which in English simply means FourWheelDrive!!! A AWD vehicle will always need to make up for power for it's Parasitic Loss through the complete drive train.......My wifes Eagle Talon TSI FWD will eat a similarly built Talon TSI AWD on the go any day, it's just simply MATH!

Since I do alot of Solo 1 & 2 Racing a have alot of Subaru Buddies, I've raced a couple of them a few times on and off the track, even against a friends slighlty modded WRX he still couldn't beat me up top..........

I don't know everything about cars, but you mentioned math, so let's play.

SVT: 200 hp @ 15% loss = 170 hp to the ground
WRX: 227 hp @ 28% loss = 163 hp to the ground

I assumed 28% because it's a lot higher, but not double.

Now, in a real world situation, there are other factors like:
- aerodynamics (advantage, SVT)
- power curve

My argument is that even with more losses and a slightly worse drag coefficient, an SVT will not be "a mile" ahead of a WRX or even beat a WRX above 100 mph.

Remember we are comparing peak hp numbers. Whoever stays in the part of the curve with more area under it for longer will do better. The WRX has the added advantage of an intercooler, whereas the SVT has heat soak issues in hotter weather (there is no air movement underhood, even at speed).

My additional argument was that I suspect the Subie allows overboost conditions, which would give it more than 227 hp for some period of time as long as all sensors check out OK. (Saabs do)

So it may be close, but it's not entirely obvious by looking at the numbers. First you said I shouldn't toss numbers around, then you said it all comes down to MATH, so what do you want?

Kerry



--------------------
99 SVT Contour Silver Frost, #365/2760, DMD
98 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro Tiptronic, 30V -- SOLD!
91 Isuzu Impulse XS Kammback, Handling By Lotus
Victoria, BC, Canada

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PXRacing
CEG'er

Reged: 05/23/01
Posts: 368
Loc: Maile, Hawaii
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61383 (Re: kerrychin) 10/17/02 06:04 PM

First off, the point of 4WD was not taken so lighltly. The fact is I know exactly what a AWD is, obviously you don't know exactly who you're arguing with. The point of 4wd was for some people who seem to like to take numbers of other cars and use it as a base comparison for other vehicles that have a totally different platform layout (it was a very simplified term without getting into any real details). So, let's not get into the whole AWD/4WD debate, you're absolutely wasting your time. Probably 4wd wasn't a "Best Phrase" to use, but in essense that's really what it is and no doubt the reall difference between the two being one is in operation all the time the other isn't.

Kerrychin plz just admit the fact that you're argument for comparing a WRX, by using a SAAB to a SVT is Rediculous!!!!!! Again, don't waste your time throwing numbers around BRO, I participate and am a Liscensed Racer on a regular basis. The numbers you throw around will not have an corralation to 'Real World' Findings. Simply put, can you back any 'MATH' up???

Speaking from experience against not only stock Subbies but even modified ones, these cars lack the top end performance. Alot has to do with it's Drivetrain Layout but also the Turbo's Size as well. I can attest to this fact over and over again because I've lived and breathed it.
Sure, if they put some major money, change the turbos, put a much larger intercooler and run high boost levels than we're talking a whole different story, but from stock to a midly modified WRX (consist of Exhaust, Intake and slighlty upping the boost, ect.) my experience has shown that even against a mildly modified SVT, the WRX just can't touch the topend performance of the SVT Duratec. I have new mods coming along very soon that will up the ante even more of my SVT.

And by the WAY I don't ever recall saying anywhere that an SVT can put a mile on a WRX, ANYWHERE??? I can relate an experience with a friend who has a mildly modified WRX, pretty much similar mods to what I have done to my SVT, we did a little side-by-side race on the go, we we're already at about 70mph, we were both in the proper gears for accelertion, at one point we both finally took off pretty much at the exact same time, with him having a bit of a head start. Well he shot ahead of me a tad bit but I quickly closed that deal and started to pull ahead of him, ever so slighlty the SVT began to pull away and as the MPH increased so did the gap start to. I eventually let off at about 120, but if it went any further there would have been a good 3-4car length gap between us two at probably 130/140. So, no the SVT isn't gonna lay an ARSE Whooping on the WRX, it just has an advantage over them in a number of cases in certain performance areas...

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PERFORMANCE PARTS for the TOUR
click here:PXRACING Homepage

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DanCanuck
CEG'er

Reged: 04/14/02
Posts: 279
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61394 (Re: PXRacing) 10/17/02 06:11 PM

It depends more on the driver. A race experienced driver,
driving my modded SVT, had no problem keeping up to and
could possibly pass, SVT Mustangs at our last SVT
Track Day. Do you honestly believe, some chick driving
her BMW M3 is going to out race me in my SVT? And no
smart a*s remarks about my driving

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2000 Black SVT #2639/2760; w/18 OZ Superleggera's, Pirelli Pzero Nero.
MSDS Headers,Quaife LSD, CF DF, Borla,,chipped,DMD,Baer Track rotors.
Lowered/HR and Koni's; HPP & OMP
3L Valves w/ P&P Heads (thanks Kinger!)

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CJ 2000
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 552
Loc: Port Chester, NY
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61432 (Re: PXRacing) 10/17/02 06:50 PM

Wattspxr, you're funny...

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2000 Black Contour SVT

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bnoon
Redneck Troll

Reged: 06/13/00
Posts: 2621
Loc: West Des Moines, IA
Re: Impreza WRX Vs. Contour SVT new
#61461 (Re: CJ 2000) 10/17/02 07:26 PM

I happen to know WRX's can't beat a SC'ed SE Contour, can't beat SVTs either at waaaay above 100. Of course this was on tracka and very safe... would I lie? Those at SZ02 and/or got the video know part of the story...

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