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fazzman2000
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Reged: 07/17/02
Posts: 205
Loc: orlando
Slotted Rotors - Revisted
#484458 - 12/20/03 08:15 PM

Please read this entire thread as it addresses common misconceptions! And again be sure to read the FAQ
-Andy


The only thing i have heard bad about the slotted rotors is that they eat the pads just a tad bit faster, but they do help in performance. Is there any truth to this? I doing my front and rear brakes and want to upgrade it to have good street performance. Im going to be running Hawk HPS pads with whatever i go with.

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01 Focus MTX
JRSC, 2.6 pully, and so on.......

Edited by Andy W. (01/05/04 10:56 PM)

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#484543 (Re: fazzman2000) 12/20/03 10:58 PM

From what I hear they don't help much/at all for street performance and they will eat up pads.

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98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

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RogerB
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#485472 (Re: fazzman2000) 12/22/03 06:12 PM

What Kremit said. They are not as problematic as the Cross-drilled rotors, and they actually do have a performance benefit under some circumstances.

But they do cause your pads to wear faster, and they are not optimum, performance-wise, for anything but the most extreme, high speed, repeated-hard-braking situations. Hence, you probably don't "need" them.



--------------------
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE

"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998

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JohnnyBravo
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Reged: 12/18/03
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#485817 (Re: fazzman2000) 12/23/03 03:31 AM

Mod Edit: There are many misconceptions in the statement below, see Silver Snake's explanation further down.


All the slots are for are for additional cooling (more air flow & surface area) and will only benefit you in an instance where you're using your brakes a lot such as a track event, auto-x, racing, et cetera. For a daily driven car they're a waste and overkill IMHO. As the other posters mentioned they'll wear the pads quicker than standard rotors, will typically warp easier since they're not quite as sturdy, and can potentially crack near the slots too thus making them not as structurally sound (although not nearly as likely compared to cross-drilled ones). They do look kinda good though so if that's what you're going for then I suppose they can be worth it then. Just my $.02

--------------------
Ben
*now* '00 CSVT T-red/tan #1684/2150
*sold* '92 Galant VR-4 #580/1000
*sold* '93 FD3S TT

Edited by Andy W. (01/05/04 10:49 PM)

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airman1
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Reged: 10/02/02
Posts: 71
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#485998 (Re: JohnnyBravo) 12/23/03 10:08 AM

Originally posted by JohnnyBravo:
...




Mod Edit: There are many misconceptions in the statement below, see Silver Snake's explanation further down.


Slots are there to help remove the fumes and brake pad vapor occuring after hard braking, thus helping in cooling of the pads not rotors/discs/ Will slotted rotors crack easier than non-slotted ones? Maybe, but slotts are not that deep for that to be of a concern. Drilled rotors, regarding cracking, are acctually safer that non drilled because crack would stop at the hole and would not spread, while non-drilled rotors if they crack, it's over. Rotors are drilled for weight savings and looks alone, there is no heat benefits in drilloing of the rotors. There is one concern with drilled rotors. Moisture, and water dropplets can accumulate in those holes and eventually end up under pads, thus creating a problem. Loook on the race cars, those that use cast iron rotors, theirs rotors are not drilled, maybe just slotted but that's also rare. I have to admitt though both slotted and drilled rotors look cool, would I spend maoney on then? No way better by better pads and brake fluid. And please, once more, rotors do not "warp"! Why? Because they can not, they are made of iron, not steel, iron, unlike steel, can crack but can not "warp" at least not on those temperatures, it's the stuff called cementite that accumulates during high temperature braking, a brake padd material gets transfered to the rotor, usually very unevenly thus, creating vibration and brake pedal pulse. I hope this helps.

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airman1
Black '95 Mondeo
V6Si

Edited by Andy W. (01/05/04 10:49 PM)

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fazzman2000
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Reged: 07/17/02
Posts: 205
Loc: orlando
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486000 (Re: airman1) 12/23/03 10:47 AM

Good stuff, thanks for the info everyone. Im just going to go with brembo blanks.

--------------------
01 Focus MTX
JRSC, 2.6 pully, and so on.......

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airman1
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486004 (Re: fazzman2000) 12/23/03 11:33 AM

Can't go wrong with Brembo's (damn this sounds like bimbo's)

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airman1
Black '95 Mondeo
V6Si

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Silver Snake
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Reged: 07/21/00
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Loc: Wixom, MI
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486041 (Re: airman1) 12/23/03 02:12 PM

Originally posted by JohnnyBravo:
All the slots are for are for additional cooling (more air flow & surface area) and will only benefit you in an instance where you're using your brakes a lot.....




Actually, slots are not for cooling, airflow or surface area. Slotted discs are used to clean the pad or "wiping the fire-band" as its called in the industry. The slots sole purpose is to clean the top layer of the pad, and prevent glazing of the friction material surface. By maintaining a clean even surface, friction level or mu can be kept more consistent from stop to stop.

Originally posted by airman1:

Slots are there to help remove the fumes and brake pad vapor occuring after hard braking, thus helping in cooling of the pads not rotors/discs/...




No they are not. Please see above. Fumes are no longer an issue with modern brakes (last 20yrs), as pad out-gassing doesn't occur due to new manufacturing techniques and materials.


Originally posted by airman1:
Will slotted rotors crack easier than non-slotted ones? Maybe...



Yes. Always.

Originally posted by airman1:
Drilled rotors, regarding cracking, are acctually safer that non drilled because crack would stop at the hole and would not spread, while non-drilled rotors if they crack, it's over.




This just isn't correct. There are too many factors at play. I can show you drilled rotors that show crack propagation twice as big as solid rotors. It has to do with rotor design, cheek thickness, venting design, etc. There are too many factors at play to simply say "X rotor is better because its drilled"


Originally posted by airman1:
Rotors are drilled for weight savings and looks alone, there is no heat benefits in drilloing of the rotors.




Wrong. Appearance plays a major factor in rotor cross-drilling, that much is true. However, for automotive use (not motorcycle) weight is never a factor. The weight savings from a drilled rotor is insignificant. Its done for appearance and slight performance gains. If the rotor is thermally sized properly (i.e., it has enough thermal mass), x-drilled holes allow for slightly quicker cooling (at a loss of thermal mass). However, they will crack quicker than an identical solid faced disc. The performance gains are slight, and not one that will be noticed by even the most discriminating street driver.


Originally posted by airman1:
There is one concern with drilled rotors. Moisture, and water dropplets can accumulate in those holes and eventually end up under pads, thus creating a problem.




Actually, testing performed by both Brembo and Porsche has shown that x-driled rotors offer improved perfomrance in wet effectiveness. In simple terms, it gives moisrture and water vapor a place to go, instead of forming a boundary layer under the pad.


Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to "correct the tech".

--------------------
Very few of life's problems can not be solved with the reasonable application of more horsepower!


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R_G
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Reged: 05/02/03
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486320 (Re: Silver Snake) 12/23/03 07:27 PM

Good info, Snake.

--------------------
MY CAR

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Silver Snake
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Reged: 07/21/00
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Loc: Wixom, MI
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486324 (Re: R_G) 12/23/03 07:47 PM

Any time.

--------------------
Very few of life's problems can not be solved with the reasonable application of more horsepower!


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486611 (Re: Silver Snake) 12/24/03 02:08 AM

Thx for stepping in Silver Snake, I got through most of the thread already composing a reply in my head; until I got to your post . . . you covered it much better than I would have . . .

btw, Have you hit any small animals w/ Hispanic names w/ your Enzo yet?

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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airman1
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Reged: 10/02/02
Posts: 71
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#486800 (Re: Silver Snake) 12/24/03 09:33 AM

(Taking his own foot out of his mouth)
It sucks to be wrong, only thing that helps is when you get good info. Thanks for correcting me. Reasoning I used about cross drilled rotors and cracks is logic that if they crack it will not go any further than the nearest hole (it shouldn't anyway). The info on water droplets was acctualy from motorcycle world, I was not aware of testing done by Porsche (I aware that they test it, not aware of the results). Still I am not impressed by cross drilled rotors and the results they got. As for the weight savings well we are not talking about total weight savings, but about unsprung weight, and there are the differences, smalll though. Anyway thanks for correction.

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airman1
Black '95 Mondeo
V6Si

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Big Jim
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#487129 (Re: airman1) 12/24/03 09:03 PM

What you may not realize about drilled rotors and cracks is that the holes themselves are the stress risers that encourage the cracking. The cracks START at the holes.

--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#487156 (Re: airman1) 12/24/03 10:14 PM

Originally posted by airman1:
As for the weight savings well we are not talking about total weight savings, but about unsprung weight, and there are the differences, smalll though. Anyway thanks for correction.




Note that ALL of the rotor's weight is unsprung weight on a car (except in the extremely rare circumstance of an inboard brake setup) The difference is pretty negligable regardless.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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JohnnyBravo
CEG'er

Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 139
Loc: MD Go Terps!!!!
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#488056 (Re: fazzman2000) 12/26/03 06:10 PM

I guess I stand corrected as well. When I was shopping for a big brake kit for my former RX-7 TT (was going with AP's instead of Brembo's though) I researched them quite a bit and I guess even those folks selling the products don't always know all the correct info all the time. Oh well either way you can't go wrong with anything Brembo makes as they do take their products seriously as far as I can tell. I mean many top supercar manufacturers use them on their production & race cars so I guess they have to be somewhat good

--------------------
Ben
*now* '00 CSVT T-red/tan #1684/2150
*sold* '92 Galant VR-4 #580/1000
*sold* '93 FD3S TT

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R_G
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Reged: 05/02/03
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#488265 (Re: JohnnyBravo) 12/27/03 02:10 AM

FAQ:

What are the benefits of cross-drilled/slotted rotors?
The simple answer is asthetics! Slotted and cross-drilled rotors do not improve braking nor is the weight savings beneficial. Often, the slots and holes cause quicker pad wear and shorter rotor life due to cracking and warping. You've hard that the unspring weight savings can help greatly, false. It is beneficial on a vehicle as weight sensative as a motor cylce but not on a street car like the a Contour. Your best bet for good braking and pad/rotor life is a quality set of blanks!



--------------------
MY CAR

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MFE
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Reged: 04/05/01
Posts: 383
Loc: Kansas City
Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#494527 (Re: R_G) 01/05/04 05:23 PM

Somebody make this a sticky and lock it before the "but but but" crowd chimes in.

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Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
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Andy W.Moderator
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#494895 (Re: MFE) 01/05/04 10:51 PM

Will Do! Please read the Entire FAQ before posting!

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


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myfastse
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Reged: 08/30/02
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#507304 (Re: R_G) 01/20/04 11:32 PM

Originally posted by RGSOUNDF:
FAQ:

What are the benefits of cross-drilled/slotted rotors?
The simple answer is asthetics! Slotted and cross-drilled rotors do not improve braking nor is the weight savings beneficial. Often, the slots and holes cause quicker pad wear and shorter rotor life due to cracking and warping. You've hard that the unspring weight savings can help greatly, false. It is beneficial on a vehicle as weight sensative as a motor cylce but not on a street car like the a Contour. Your best bet for good braking and pad/rotor life is a quality set of blanks!






I agree, but it always makes me wonder why high end cars put them on from the factory if they are so bad and cause shorter life. Porsche for exp.

--------------------
Just a Plain SE.

AKA Big Country

I maybe path914's B**** now, but wait until he needs his clutch done. We will see WHO is WHO's B**** then!

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#507343 (Re: myfastse) 01/21/04 12:13 AM

Originally posted by myfastse:
Originally posted by RGSOUNDF:
FAQ:

What are the benefits of cross-drilled/slotted rotors?
The simple answer is asthetics! Slotted and cross-drilled rotors do not improve braking nor is the weight savings beneficial. Often, the slots and holes cause quicker pad wear and shorter rotor life due to cracking and warping. You've hard that the unspring weight savings can help greatly, false. It is beneficial on a vehicle as weight sensative as a motor cylce but not on a street car like the a Contour. Your best bet for good braking and pad/rotor life is a quality set of blanks!






I agree, but it always makes me wonder why high end cars put them on from the factory if they are so bad and cause shorter life. Porsche for exp.




Read Silver Snake's post above.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Todd TCE
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#507517 (Re: Rara) 01/21/04 03:48 AM

Ok, so.....

http://www.reddotracing.co.uk

Scroll down now......you know if 1 is good, then 2 is always better.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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Andy W.Moderator
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#509677 (Re: Todd TCE) 01/23/04 01:13 PM

Sorry Todd,
But I would not take advise on this subject from a company that uses a x-drilled rotor in their logo.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


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RogerB
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Re: Sorry to ask- Brembo slotted rotors new
#509843 (Re: Andy W.) 01/23/04 04:58 PM

Well, you know how toilet paper never seems to tear off at the perforation. I guess they applied that theory to their rotors.

--------------------
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE

"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998

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patman
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Posts: 103
Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#599727 (Re: fazzman2000) 04/27/04 05:49 AM

There are a lot of misconceptions about slotted and crossdrilled rotors. I have read many of the posts in this forum and feel that I can add some helpful information. I have been in the performance brake and racing industry for a number of years and this is what I have learned from my own experience and the experience of others. Slotted rotors and crossdrilled rotors have absolutely nothing to do with keeping the brakes cooler than stock rotors. The main advantage to using slotted or crossdrilled rotors is that they will allow the brakes to operate properly at a much higher temperature than will stock rotors. When brake pads get hot,(even the newer friction formulations) the resins that bond the friction material together develop rise to the surface of the pad and develop a gas. This gas will actually float the pad away from the rotor. The same theory which makes engine bearings last so long, there is never any metal to metal contact because there is a very thin cushion of oil separating the two parts. Generally if the brakes get hot enough, they will lose their effectiveness and a spongy pedal will usually result. This spongy pedal is caused by one of two things; boiling brake fluid or the fact that you are trying to compress the gas that is floating the pad away from the rotor. What slotting and crossdrilling does is to allow a path for this gas to dissipate, while allowing the pad to maintain a good, solid, contact with the rotor, thus maintaning effective braking. Slotted rotors accomplish this much better in everything except all out race cars because they generally have a much longer life expectancy than crossdrilled rotors. Crossdrilled rotors usually crack because when cast iron parts are drilled, stress risers are developed which generally develop cracks after many consecutive heat cycles which can ultimatly lead to rotor failure. Additionaly, crossdrilling removes significantly more friction surface area from the rotor than slotting does, allowing a lower braking capability over stock or slotted rotors. The only real advantage to crossdrilled rotors is the reduction of unsprung weight that they offer, which makes for a considerable handling advantage in all out race cars. And the cracking isn't an issue, because very few heat cycles are seen before the rotor is replaced. Slotting does everything that crossdrilling does, with the exception of the weight reduction issue. The only difference is that they very seldom crack, they do not eat the pads as fast as crossdrilled rotors, and because they have more friction surface and mass than a comparable crossdrilled rotor, warping and temperature are greatly reduced. I hope this helps anybody who is interested...feel free to email me if any questions come up @ pmccle3928@aol.com

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Andy W.Moderator
b0x @dm1n

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Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#602081 (Re: patman) 04/29/04 03:01 PM

Pat,
Your talking about extreme race situations. Not situation faced to street car owners or even auto-x car owners. Not to mention the materials used in those brakes are something that will probably never be produced for our cars.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#602089 (Re: Andy W.) 04/29/04 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Andy W.:
Pat,
Your talking about extreme race situations. Not situation faced to street car owners or even auto-x car owners. Not to mention the materials used in those brakes are something that will probably never be produced for our cars.

-Andy




No, pat is talking about real old school pad materials that outgas; not a problem with modern pad materials, even on the race track.


--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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NMC
New CEG'er

Reged: 08/22/00
Posts: 42
Loc: Winnipeg MB CANADA
Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#722585 (Re: Rara) 09/25/04 02:38 AM

I've had Powerslot's on the front (278mm) for over 4 years and 25k miles now. No warping or squealing, but a bit of a groan under hard braking. I put in new stock Ford pads with them and they are about half worn now. I see no problems in using them at all. The right one even survived a seized caliper for a few miles. I have had to clean the grooves every 6 months or so though.

--------------------
96LXV6 heavily un-modded due to family addition.
87Renault GTA convertible, chopped springs, Ford Premium Sound, but otherwise stock.


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Andy W.Moderator
b0x @dm1n

Reged: 07/19/00
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Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#724022 (Re: NMC) 09/27/04 02:14 PM

25k Miles over 4 years is not heavy use, but I'm glad you are having success.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


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CLASSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

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Loc: Music City
Re: Slotted Rotors - Revisted new
#1224632 (Re: Andy W.) 04/25/06 11:48 PM

I thought I'd add one more tid-bit of info. I've had my Powerslots for almost two years. Not once have they squeaked or squealed. I don't know if that is common with all slotted rotors, but it is nice to say the least.

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99 Black SVT -3L Hybrid w/.5mm overbore, Spec clutch/flywheel, MSDS, BAT intake, K&N open, 17'Konig Tantrums, DMD, Opt. TB & Y, Powerslots, Bassani w/ magnaflow res.
96 SE MTX- "The War Wagon"

"I'm in love with my car..."
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