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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ?
#276380 - 05/07/03 12:49 AM

What is the interest in FSVT brakes versus just SVT brakes or others?

The FSVT calipers are either the same as E0 SVT, or close so they should weigh about the same and use similar weight and composition pads.
The only benefit I see is the bigger rotor. I would like bigger rotors.

Anyway, if bigger rotors is the only real advantage to the FSVT brakes, then why not a small custom bracket designed to utilize the FSVT rotors and retain whatever stock caliper you have? If I understand it right, all the contour/cougar brake systems have the same bolt hole alignment for the caliper mounting bracket but just use different brackets and/or calipers.
Why can't we just make the custom bracket that is similar in purpose to the one that BAT sells for people to upgrade standard size contour rotors to SVT rotors?

If it would pay for itself, I would look into having a bracket built. I have some sketches that I'm confident will reasonably easy for a machine shop to make and I'm confident will work very well. I would of course defer to one of these brake gurus on here if they are willing to build one and sell them.
However, if no one else does, then how many people would be interested in this? Just jump in and say yay or nay if you would pay a fair sum for a bracket, or a bracket and rotor combo.



--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276414 (Re: warmonger) 05/07/03 01:23 AM

I've actually been planning on doing this. Perhaps even selling the brackets w/ FSVT rotors and appropriate hardware.
Worldtour and I have been doing a bit of research on getting a little "kit" together at a reasonable price.

Oddly enough, I'm actually waiting on some tires, so I can put my stock E1's back on for the summer, so I won't have to take the FSVT brakes off right away. I just need to get some decent on vehicle measurements for clearances and whatnot and head off to the machine shop.

And no, no word on pricing as of yet.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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fast80svt
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Reged: 07/09/00
Posts: 254
Loc: Monument, CO (Just North of Colo. Spgs.)
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276525 (Re: Rara) 05/07/03 02:39 AM

Hell yeah, fellas. Make this happen. My stock E0 calipers, your custom bracket, and FSVT rotors sound like the shizznit!

--------------------
Ben
TROLL BECAUSE I SOLD MY 1998 T-Red SVT #4406/6535
Last E0 Made? 1/13/98
SOLD THE SVT TO BUY A 2002 Audi S4
STILL ENJOY MY 1999 Silver Mazda Miata MX-5
Email Me


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Livinsvt
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Reged: 10/28/01
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276666 (Re: fast80svt) 05/07/03 04:36 AM

Intresting you brought this up. I was speaking with Stazi and were thinking of coming up with our own version of a Baer kit. He explained to me that that Baer brakes are just Cobra calipers with a different bracket. He said if he could get a hold of a baer bracket he could copy it and make it at his work. Both he and I can get realy good deals on Ford parts. What do you think Rara. Your working on brake sytems currently right?

--------------------
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds

bp.powell@comcast.net



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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276813 (Re: Livinsvt) 05/07/03 10:36 AM

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Intresting you brought this up. I was speaking with Stazi and were thinking of coming up with our own version of a Baer kit. He explained to me that that Baer brakes are just Cobra calipers with a different bracket. He said if he could get a hold of a baer bracket he could copy it and make it at his work. Both he and I can get realy good deals on Ford parts. What do you think Rara. Your working on brake sytems currently right?




Clearances to the wheel could be tough, but I don't see why you couldn't do it. The Baer kit doesn't seem to require any master cylinder modifications (I haven't checked the relative piston areas, but I'm sure the total is at least fairly close).

Another option rather than the Cobra calipers is the std mustang front calipers from 99+ They are twin piston aluminum units from PBR, and actually have larger pistons than the Cobra units. They would likely be cheaper to procure (both V6 and GT uses them) but harder to package under most wheels.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276888 (Re: Rara) 05/07/03 01:06 PM

Sounds good. If you'd like any help with anything, let me know event though I have my own ideas worked out. However, you're the brake engineer!
I'll be content to help you 'test' them if you'd like.

Tom


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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OutOfOrder
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Reged: 08/16/02
Posts: 62
Loc: Mn
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276939 (Re: warmonger) 05/07/03 01:57 PM

I would be interested in finding a way to mount larger rotors. I just started thinking about this a week or two ago and was about to "search" to see if this is possible or has been done. I would like to try to keep everything stock if possible and just up the rotor size?

I say let's do it.

O3

--------------------
Parts theory: "Run them til you bust them, and then upgrade"
2000 Svt
Black/Tan
H&R Springs
B&M Short Throw
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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#276992 (Re: OutOfOrder) 05/07/03 02:31 PM

The idea actually came about because I was thinking of swapping on the FSVT brakes, but because of my 15" snow tires, I didn't want to be swapping calipers twice a year, so I was thinking of how to do it w/ out opening up the brake lines all the time.

Now I just need some summer tires so my 16"s can go back on so I can get started on a few of the details.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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GregCarter
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Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 33
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#277403 (Re: Rara) 05/07/03 07:33 PM

I would be interested as well, E0 SVT calipers with larger rotors.

I may be picking up a set of snows but they are 15", so if all I had to do was swap rotors/brackets to retain the use of 15" rims that would be great.

Greg
-----
'98 SVT Contour


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PDXSVT
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#277748 (Re: warmonger) 05/07/03 11:19 PM

My E0 rotors are scored enough that I don't want to have them turned, AND I will soon need new pads. For those of us (like me) that will have to do something soon anyway, keep posting your progress on these ideas!!!!

Would I be interested in an upgrade kit, attractively priced? Heck yeah.

--------------------
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159


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Livinsvt
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Reged: 10/28/01
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#278073 (Re: PDXSVT) 05/08/03 04:56 AM

Well does anyone have a Baer kit not installed so we could borrow the brackets to copy?

--------------------
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds

bp.powell@comcast.net



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Russell-3L
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Reged: 08/23/02
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Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280318 (Re: Livinsvt) 05/10/03 03:14 AM

id love to get a bigger set of rotors, my stock ones look puny under my 17" rims

--------------------
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280352 (Re: Russell-3L) 05/10/03 04:08 AM

Just an FYI for you guys looking for the focus brakes.
I've stepped up the investigation into doing this. I'm hoping to have a bracket design complete, and off to the machine shop to get quoted before the weekend is out. Also in the works is an attempt to get some volume pricing on SVT Focus rotors, we'll have to see how that goes.

If things work out the way I hope, I will be offering brackets and SVT Focus rotors as a kit; Initially only for SVT's and Cougars w/ the stock 278mm rotors, but depending on demand, a kit for the regular contours and cougars that came w/ 260mm front rotors. Though I don't plan to include pads w/ the kit, you should get a new set of pads for use w/ the larger rotor (too many different choices, though if demand is high enough, perhaps Stazi and I can work something out w/ the Bendix pads along w/ the kit . . .) and keep your current pads w/ your current rotors if you need to switch back (like if you are going to run 15" wheels for the winter) That way you won't need to be constantly re-bedding pads, and killing the wear on them, and on the rotors.

Anyway, just thought I'd give folks a heads up, and more info will be coming as I figure out more on this. I just hope prices can be kept reasonable. Just to give you guys an idea, I believe the OEM SVTF rotors are running ~$90 each right now.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Livinsvt
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Reged: 10/28/01
Posts: 1859
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280401 (Re: Rara) 05/10/03 05:00 AM

What will this upgrade do for us. Is it larger rotors, new caliper?? Just curious. I am not up to speed on the Focus conversion deal. Good job Rara. I will ask again. Anyone have a bracket for their Baer brakes. Just adding another option.

--------------------
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds

bp.powell@comcast.net



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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280580 (Re: Livinsvt) 05/10/03 12:51 PM

Right now, the plan is for a kit that will consist of a pair of Focus SVT front rotors (300mm rotors vs. the CSVT 278mm rotors) and a set of bracket adapters to allow use of your existing Contour SVT caliper with them, and the necessary hardware to bolt it up.

Right now, the plan is to test them only on E1 calipers, but they should work on E0 calipers as well. The kit should work for COugars w/ the 278mm rotors as well.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280590 (Re: Rara) 05/10/03 01:19 PM

Great Work, glad to see you got it handled. Let me know as soon as you get something working.

Tom


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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nOsSvTcOnToUr
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Reged: 08/03/01
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Loc: Mount Vernon, NY
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280610 (Re: Rara) 05/10/03 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Rara:
Right now, the plan is for a kit that will consist of a pair of Focus SVT front rotors (300mm rotors vs. the CSVT 278mm rotors) and a set of bracket adapters to allow use of your existing Contour SVT caliper with them, and the necessary hardware to bolt it up.

Right now, the plan is to test them only on E1 calipers, but they should work on E0 calipers as well. The kit should work for COugars w/ the 278mm rotors as well.




Hey , i am def interested in this as well. I am getting some brake calipers and brackets from a cougar so that i could upgrade to svt contour brakes, but please keep us informed i would love to have bigger brakes in the front.

--------------------
HaHa You Watching me? Keep Watching

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PDXSVT
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Reged: 12/29/02
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280724 (Re: Rara) 05/10/03 04:41 PM

Thanks for the progress update and the hint on the rotor cost.

--------------------
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159


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sordz
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Reged: 04/22/02
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Loc: Minnesota
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280752 (Re: PDXSVT) 05/10/03 05:31 PM

i am also interested in the brackets for my svt. hmmm bigger rotors...

--------------------
2004 silver srt-4 with some mods(FOR SALE) ;-)
1998 t-red CSVT stock and beat up :-(
1997 z24 cavalier with some mods(FOR SALE) :-?
old ride- 98 Silver CSVT with some mods ;-)

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#280882 (Re: sordz) 05/10/03 09:06 PM

Well, we were hoping to have a design ready to go to the machine shop today, but we hit a snag in making it all fit together, so we are going to revisit it next week and see if we can come up w/ another way for the bracket to work.

On a side note, it looks like we would be able to offer a set for regular contours as well without major difficulty, once a basic bracket design is established.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Paul Kienitz
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Reged: 05/06/01
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284085 (Re: OutOfOrder) 05/13/03 09:20 PM

I'm also interested in pursuing larger rotors, if they can fit inside E0 rims, which would probably be awfully tight with FSVT rotors.

My current brakes are just not adequate for mountain descents.

--------------------
R.I.P. "Sam Smooth" - '96 GL Zetec ATX, with excess compression (shaved head)
Hello "Sam Jr." - ...another '96 GL Zetec ATX.

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Stazi
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284759 (Re: Rara) 05/14/03 12:45 PM

Yes I would be able to help out here and add to the pacjkage witha set of Bendix Titanium Pads to the Kit. I wish we could find out if Autospecialty already has the casting mold for the FSVT rotors as I can DEFINITELY beat $90 a rotor!

Rara, I assume that the new FSVT rotor is totally new, as I doubt any other Ford with a 4-bolt hub has ever had a 12" rotors, correct?

I have to start digging here too.

Rara, if you want to give me a rotors and caliper bracket from your FSVT brakes I'll try them out with my E1 calkipers and see if it's a simple bolt on affair.....

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284794 (Re: Stazi) 05/14/03 01:21 PM

lol, I've got a set of E1's on my car too stazi

I'm working on beating the $90 / rotor as well, that is just the last Ford price I heard on them.

Fwiw, the FSVT rotor is unique to the FSVT, and is a very well done rotor, very beefy.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284799 (Re: Rara) 05/14/03 01:23 PM

Oops, forgot to mention, the bracket design is progressing.
We have a viable solution, just need to devise a fastening strategy that will fit in the available space.

And then we will see what the machine shop says.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Stazi
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 11/18/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284819 (Re: Rara) 05/14/03 01:40 PM

If you can't fatten, add a rib at least. Rememebr beaming anaylsis from Uni?

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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JEDsContour
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Reged: 12/06/02
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#284869 (Re: Stazi) 05/14/03 02:40 PM

I am real interested in this too. I just bought a set of BATís 17Ē Rousch Racing wheels and tires and was planning to purchase the $300 BAT "Big Brake Kit C" (non-SVT caliper custom brackets, SVT rotors, pads). I am going to hold off this purchase to see what happens here.

In my case I suppose I need a set of SVT E1 calipers, custom brackets (yeah!) and Focus SVT rotors. IMHO the larger the rotor diameter the better. If somebody offers a kit to upgrade non-SVT contours with this hardware, I think it could sell reasonably well (assuming the costs can be kept down).

What about using Focus SVT calipers as part of this upgrade path for non-SVT contours?

--------------------
99 Tropic Green SVT, Tan Leather, 20K miles, "Nice Twin" (factory stock).
99 Tropic Green SVT, Tan Leather, 28K miles, "Evil Twin" (Turbo AER 3L and more in progress)
96 Red LX, Opal Grey Leather 2.5L, ATX, 22K miles

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#285015 (Re: Stazi) 05/14/03 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:
If you can't fatten, add a rib at least. Rememebr beaming anaylsis from Uni?




Unfortunately, its not a matter of brackets stiffness at this point. Its a matter of getting a bolt to fit under the anchor bracket and still go through the adapter bracket and the mounts on the spindle. The brackets are actually significantly thicker/larger than I had originally envisioned due to package constraints but we are getting there.



JED,

Actually, we are working on a bracket that will work for the regular contour calipers as well, so all you would need is the rotors, brackets, and some new pads to go with the rotors.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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HoosierContour
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#319630 (Re: Rara) 06/17/03 03:23 AM

Updates?

--------------------
Sold 1998 Contour LX 13.868 sec 1/4 mile time.
Two years of rental cars, seriously.
Holding out for 07 Cobra Mustang.

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#319640 (Re: HoosierContour) 06/17/03 03:31 AM

Unfortunately, no real updates from me. We came up with a design that needed to be tested, and had some problems with the CAD files not transferring to the machine shop correctly.

My CAD guy is out of town on business for awhile, and I've not had time to sort it out over the last few weeks (extremely busy, and sick for several weeks)

I'm hoping to get the CAD issues straightened out here in a week or so, and get back to trying to get a prototype set made.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#333612 (Re: Rara) 06/29/03 10:26 PM

Ok, I know you have nothing better to do...so where is it?


I'm about ready for that front brake upgrade with a set of Bendix titaniums.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#333627 (Re: warmonger) 06/29/03 10:43 PM

Well, I was hoping to have some sort of an update this week.

The machine shop has the CAD data and is ready to discuss a quote for getting brackets made (keep in mind that even with the design i gave them, i have to work out some fastener clearnace problems) BUT, we are playing phone tag . . . hopefully I will get a chance to talk with them monday.

I am also pursuing another route, that would likely make the setup more robust, and ultimately cheaper, but I'm not sure I can legitimately do it, we'll see what happens.

I just wish I could do this kind of stuff as a day job . . . someday.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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fast80svt
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#333992 (Re: Rara) 06/30/03 04:23 AM

Keep up the good work, Rara. A lot of people are waiting with interest on this one.

--------------------
Ben
TROLL BECAUSE I SOLD MY 1998 T-Red SVT #4406/6535
Last E0 Made? 1/13/98
SOLD THE SVT TO BUY A 2002 Audi S4
STILL ENJOY MY 1999 Silver Mazda Miata MX-5
Email Me


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#334279 (Re: fast80svt) 06/30/03 01:08 PM

Originally posted by fast80svt:
Keep up the good work, Rara. A lot of people are waiting with interest on this one.




Lol, including myself! Its just kind of bugging me that I haven't had the time to devote to getting it done . . .

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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todras
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#336208 (Re: Rara) 07/02/03 12:38 AM

I'm in on this FWIW.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#336326 (Re: todras) 07/02/03 03:04 AM

Just an FYI, still havent been able to get with the machine shop, I was too busy at work today.

BUT, I am investigating another alternative that would be significantly better for all involved but, may not pan out due to commercial/legal issues over who owns the rights to what.


I know I can't even guess at pricing right now (except that it would be cheaper than buying FSVT calipers and rotors outright from a dealer) but how many kits would I be looking at putting together for people? Note that this would just allow you to use your existing caliper on a larger FSVT front rotor (300mm vs. 278mm for SVT and 260mm for std) and would include the rotors and all necessary fasteners and bracketry, and if I could work out a deal with Stazi or some other pad dealer, perhaps a set of new pads as well. Also, I would wonder how many folks would want them to upgrade from E1 and E0 SVT, and how many from std. contour?

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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Keyser Soze
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#336332 (Re: Rara) 07/02/03 03:07 AM

The end of the track gets closer and closer. Eventually, I will need some kind of upgrade. If it doesn't cost more than Baer or Wilwoods would be interested. I have a few other mods up my sleeve first however. BTW that's 1 for 278 to 300.

--------------------
2001 Lincoln LS8
1994 Lexus GS300

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fast80svt
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337125 (Re: Rara) 07/02/03 06:20 PM

I would be going from a stock E0 setup. By the way, I like the idea of getting some new pads with the deal. Perhaps even SS lines???

--------------------
Ben
TROLL BECAUSE I SOLD MY 1998 T-Red SVT #4406/6535
Last E0 Made? 1/13/98
SOLD THE SVT TO BUY A 2002 Audi S4
STILL ENJOY MY 1999 Silver Mazda Miata MX-5
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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337143 (Re: fast80svt) 07/02/03 06:36 PM

Originally posted by fast80svt:
I would be going from a stock E0 setup. By the way, I like the idea of getting some new pads with the deal. Perhaps even SS lines???




I'm not sure I want to include lines, for several reasons. One I don't want to step on too many toes (I think Todd from TCE would be happy to sell you some good quality SS lines, as would several other vendors) but the main thing is, part of the point of doing it the way I'm shooting for, is that you won't have to "open" the hydraulics of the brake system to install this setup, or to switch back to your original smaller rotors if you want to run smaller wheels for the winter time or something like that.

--------------------
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hydro
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337160 (Re: Rara) 07/02/03 06:52 PM

i'd definitely be on this too, i've been hoping this will become a viable option. btw, thanks for the advice on the Mustang suspension Brian

--------------------


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juspifool
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337405 (Re: hydro) 07/02/03 10:34 PM

I too would be interested in this.

--------------------
1998 T-Red SVT Contour
#2588 of 6535

2005 F-150

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Paul Kienitz
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337563 (Re: Rara) 07/03/03 01:15 AM

I would have a strong interest in this brake package, upgrading from a standard tour... if it fits inside E0 rims. Alas, I have rear drums, so hopefully you'll have a front-only option.

Say, do cars with rear discs manage to dissipate more braking heat in the back than cars without do, or is everybody pretty much stuck with 80+% of the braking happening in front?


--------------------
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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337639 (Re: Paul Kienitz) 07/03/03 02:14 AM

I'm of no help on your hoses gents, all the hoses I use are specifically for the fittings I use and to my specs for the application. I can do Earl's product but given Summit 'screw the small shop attitude' I cannot or will not compete with their pricing. I can't make it up on neon wiper blades.

Now if you want to do a complete upgrade....then the hoses are included.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#337682 (Re: Paul Kienitz) 07/03/03 03:03 AM

Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

Say, do cars with rear discs manage to dissipate more braking heat in the back than cars without do, or is everybody pretty much stuck with 80+% of the braking happening in front?





The limiting of braking available for use from the rear has almost zero to do with heat, but everything with weight balance of the vehicle.

And this kit would only be for the front anyway.

--------------------
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Paul Kienitz
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#338418 (Re: Rara) 07/03/03 10:07 PM

So you can take full advantage of one's rear brakes by, say, loading six dead bodies in the trunk?

--------------------
R.I.P. "Sam Smooth" - '96 GL Zetec ATX, with excess compression (shaved head)
Hello "Sam Jr." - ...another '96 GL Zetec ATX.

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louisw
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#341578 (Re: Rara) 07/08/03 04:27 AM

I'm interested in a set. My rotors have been slightly warped for a long time and I think they're too thin to turn again. I don't really need more aggressive brakes but maybe larger rotors will be less prone to warping.

--------------------
E0 SVT, lightly modded

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ejo
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#342976 (Re: louisw) 07/09/03 02:37 PM

Just saw this today 65.109.103.142/files/cbrake.pdf
on the last page of file- FSVT rotors & pads for a decent price. Kinda goes along with the thread.

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#343210 (Re: ejo) 07/09/03 05:13 PM

Yeah, I saw that, I am really curious as to where they are getting those rotors, as they are awfully cheap, but they don't look to be actual Ford rotors, which on the FSVT appear to be top notch quality, and run ~$90+ from a dealer.

Good to see there are some decent aftermarket pads out for the FSVT caliper now though.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Derk-xB
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#346286 (Re: Rara) 07/12/03 07:17 AM

I rarely check the brake section (my brakes are still strong at 60K).
However, I think a package in which 1) I don't have to touch the brake lines 2) I get bigger rotors 3) I can use the stock calipers sounds great . Will you offer this package at a later date?

--------------------
Derek
Scion xB 5-spd
Previous: 2000 Silver Frost SVT
Please share the road with cyclists.

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#370106 (Re: Rara) 08/06/03 01:05 PM

Any updates on the bracket?

warmonger


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#370249 (Re: warmonger) 08/06/03 04:03 PM

completely stalled at this point, no oppurtunity to work on it.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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Mod-deth
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#370252 (Re: Rara) 08/06/03 04:11 PM

As a side note...BAT is now offering FSVT 300mm rotors ($46 per)- no, not the big brake kit...and Mintex AF pads ($56)...looks like the brackets will soon follow...?

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#370688 (Re: Mod-deth) 08/07/03 12:19 AM

The only reason I keep pestering you RARA is that I have probably 3 projects going at once right now and I don't have time to fabricate one!

warmonger


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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weargle
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#376559 (Re: warmonger) 08/13/03 06:42 PM

Hey, if you guys get this thing going again, I'm in.

--------------------
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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#378421 (Re: weargle) 08/15/03 05:32 PM

I have two projects in front of this, but I'll put this as number 3 to start work on. If I get it made I will then offer a group buy on them that will cover the prototype costs and manufacturing costs...I'm not looking to make any money on it.

Tom


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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weargle
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#378449 (Re: warmonger) 08/15/03 06:08 PM

Originally posted by warmonger:
I have two projects in front of this, but I'll put this as number 3 to start work on. If I get it made I will then offer a group buy on them that will cover the prototype costs and manufacturing costs...I'm not looking to make any money on it.

Tom





That'd be sweet.

--------------------
Whirling dervish of FFOG.

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#378583 (Re: warmonger) 08/15/03 08:37 PM

Originally posted by warmonger:
I have two projects in front of this, but I'll put this as number 3 to start work on. If I get it made I will then offer a group buy on them that will cover the prototype costs and manufacturing costs...I'm not looking to make any money on it.

Tom





Yup, that's exactly what my goal was. problem is that a workable design is quite difficult. I had another, ever better option, but it fell through for commercial reasons.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#378980 (Re: Rara) 08/16/03 10:54 AM

I'll take a WAG here and say that your basic problem lies in the fit of one bracket over the holes of the other. The first has a radius of X the second Y. When you move Y out and on a bracket the holes of X seem to be over them. Sorta half and half not allowing you enough room to place the bolts through any of the holes. If you were going from say 9" to 15" rotors the size change would be big enough to accomodate this but from perhaps 10-11" the offset change is just too small.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#379188 (Re: Todd TCE) 08/16/03 10:02 PM

yup, and even rotating them doesn't buy me anything. For a one off, I would consider just milling clearance into the anchor bracket for the fasteners, but not for something to make in any quantity, as who knows what methods folks would decide to use to clearnace the stock anchor brackets

I'm sure there's a way around it, but I haven't had the time to invest in it. Tood, if you want to "team up" we can compare notes on where I am and see what we could come up together . . . lord knows your bracket manufacturing contacts for the quantities we are talking about here are much better (I'm used to dealing with volumes anywhere from 40-250k vehicle sets per year) Toss me a PM if you want to discuss it further.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#379309 (Re: Rara) 08/17/03 02:48 AM

The best suggestion I can offer you Rara is that you look at all the hardware options you have to choose from and make the best call from there.

Your suggestion on how to get around it on a 'one-off' are fine but as you suspect this just ain't gonna fly trying to sell it to someone. Way too much work. Trust me; it's hard enough to get some people to figure out how to do a simple bolt up, let alone let them loose with a grinder...lol.

I can't say I really have much interest (nor the need for) helping on it. It's the same problem if I tried it. Even at that, selling a dozen sets of brackets wouldn't come close to compensating for the time on them. I'm sure you're figuring this out too.

You do the leg work and if I can help you on the mfg, let me know.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#379449 (Re: Todd TCE) 08/17/03 02:22 PM

Todd,

Say Rara doesn't have time to make a bracket. If I manage to come up with a bracket design would you extend the same offer to me?

Tom

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#379816 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 01:43 AM

In truth probably not. Not because I would not be willing to help you or him, but rather that you would do much better to work with a local shop in a more hands on manner. Don't know where you are, but PHX may be a bit of a problem for test fits etc of all the parts, and you'd of course have to supply all the parts to me ahead of time: caliper, bracket and rotor to be used.

Think about it.

BTW, how much larger is this rotor over what you are using?

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#379900 (Re: Todd TCE) 08/18/03 03:17 AM

Focus rotor is 12" I thought and the contour is 10.9"

I have to buy a rotor and then proceed to do the test fit.
It seems that I would need to move the current bracket out by roughly 1" and I think that is enough room for a second set of bolt holes without cutting into the mounting locations on the steering knuckle.


Oh well, thanks anyway. I will probably look at the options I have locally after I get the initial bracket built.

Tom


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380184 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 01:22 PM

Think again. What's the difference in size of the rotor?
1"+ I believe. Now...how much would you be moving out the bracket? Think half that.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380197 (Re: Todd TCE) 08/18/03 01:40 PM

Oh yeah, no sh|t!
I guess I've been thinking that way all along and then talking out my ass.


I'll have to wait until I get a hold of a rotor and see what I can do plus take actual measurements.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380484 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 06:16 PM

Yeah, i've got all the measurements, me and a "CAD Monkey" friend were working on it for awhile. The CSVT rotor is 278mm vs the FSVT rotor at 300mm. The differences between the required caliper placements is 11mm radial and 3mm offset (I'm going from memory, so sue me if this isn't exact )

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Balance is the Key.

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ssolomo
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380657 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 08:59 PM

OK, I must be dense, but I searched and could not find another FAQ or other info on the Focus brake install. I thought you could just install the Focus calipers (which have the pads and brackets already assembled) right on the SVT.

I just found out that I have to replace both my rotors and pads, so I thought I might as well go all out as long as I'm doing it. From Bill J., only another $100 after the core charge over stock rotors and pads.

Any advice? Put in a new thread?

Thanks.

Steven

'98.5 SVT
currently undergoing DMD transformation!!!



--------------------
Steven
'98.5 SVT
DMD, K&N, Magnaflow res, Falcon floormats, electrochomatic rearview mirror and other little goodies

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380727 (Re: Rara) 08/18/03 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Rara:
Yeah, i've got all the measurements, me and a "CAD Monkey" friend were working on it for awhile. The CSVT rotor is 278mm vs the FSVT rotor at 300mm. The differences between the required caliper placements is 11mm radial and 3mm offset (I'm going from memory, so sue me if this isn't exact )




My lawyer will call your lawyer! J/K

Ok, but does that mean that there is not enough room to bolt a bracket to the existing mounting ears and then bolt the SVT bracket to this intermediate bracket?

I've been thinking about it today and I am really not sure anymore.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380748 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 10:41 PM

Originally posted by warmonger:

Ok, but does that mean that there is not enough room to bolt a bracket to the existing mounting ears and then bolt the SVT bracket to this intermediate bracket?





Therein lies the problem, making a bracket fit in there. I've gotten pretty close actually, but the end result bracket still doesn't have room for one of the necessary bolts to fit; and the overall bracket design is quite large and heavy to even get this close.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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warmonger
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380767 (Re: Rara) 08/18/03 10:58 PM

What about tapping new holes in the current SVT bracket to move the bolt locations out a little further? To take it to the next level, can we offset the current bolt-hole and then fill in the extra part with a weld-bead?


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380824 (Re: warmonger) 08/18/03 11:48 PM

Originally posted by warmonger:
What about tapping new holes in the current SVT bracket to move the bolt locations out a little further? To take it to the next level, can we offset the current bolt-hole and then fill in the extra part with a weld-bead?





the cost and effort that you would expend to do that could buy some new svt focus calipers. . . not to mention that the resulting work could potentially be very unsafe.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#380995 (Re: Rara) 08/19/03 02:22 AM

makes you were in the brake kit biz eh?

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
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Oo.et.oO
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#394023 (Re: Mod-deth) 09/02/03 08:27 PM

i'm in for stock E0 calipers if this will happen.

what's the status on fitment inside E0 wheels?
anyone test fit?

if this doesn't happen soon, i'll just shell out for the FSVT calipers and then i'll test fit my E0 (winter) wheels...

thanks for any and all effort on this whole upgrade. i love it.

--------------------
for sale: E0 (98) Silver Frost SVT/Contour
http://contour.org/carprofile/carprofile.cgi?a=display&uid=667
wanted: front SVT bumper mesh, 01/02 S4 avant, nogaro blue.

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NMC
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#394416 (Re: Oo.et.oO) 09/03/03 03:53 AM

I'm interested in this too. I converted to E1 SVT years ago and they are starting to look small. Has anyone actually compared a FSVT and a Tour rotor side by each? Is hat height the same? Are they the same thickness? What about the center hole for the hub? There could be other diffs than diameter.

--------------------
96LXV6 heavily un-modded due to family addition.
87Renault GTA convertible, chopped springs, Ford Premium Sound, but otherwise stock.


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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#394726 (Re: NMC) 09/03/03 04:06 PM

Originally posted by NMC:
I'm interested in this too. I converted to E1 SVT years ago and they are starting to look small. Has anyone actually compared a FSVT and a Tour rotor side by each? Is hat height the same? Are they the same thickness? What about the center hole for the hub? There could be other diffs than diameter.




If you had paid some attention to the discussion you would know this stuff.


The rotor offset is ~3mm different. Contour and focus as well as several other vehicles (including the venerable XR4Ti) are hubcentric to the same diameter. And Rotor thickness is either the same or not different enough to matter.

The bottom line is that for now, there will be no adapters available. There simply isn't enough room to get everyhting bolted together. I will continue to work on it as I have time in hopes of coming up with something, but don't hold your breath.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

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Paul Kienitz
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#428202 (Re: Rara) 10/12/03 07:47 AM

Would it be any easier to work on an adapter from plain Tour 260mm rotors, instead of SVT 278mm ones? Maybe that would be more doable, and maybe even more potential buyers.

--------------------
R.I.P. "Sam Smooth" - '96 GL Zetec ATX, with excess compression (shaved head)
Hello "Sam Jr." - ...another '96 GL Zetec ATX.

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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#428543 (Re: Paul Kienitz) 10/13/03 12:13 AM

Unless there is a difference in knuckles that I don't know of you're in for the same problem. You're not adapting the rotors as much as you are adapting the caliper to fit the knuckle and its increase in dia. All this moving a caliper outward on r by only a marginal amount just doesn't work.

A couple of us know why, the rest, please take our word for it.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
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thejms
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#475942 (Re: Todd TCE) 12/09/03 07:40 PM

Has there been an update on this at all? Or did I just miss it.

--------------------
Justin Schmidt
2000 SVT Tour
#1620 of 2150
Born 1/15/2000





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TGO
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#475955 (Re: thejms) 12/09/03 07:55 PM

Im going to maintain my stance that the most straightforward, and easiest thing to do is just buy the SVT Focus rotors and calipers. With the core exchange that bill jenkins will give you on your old svt calipers, the total cost is $360. Can't beat that.

--------------------
1999 Silver Frost SVT
#609 of 2760

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SVTb4SRT4
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#476008 (Re: TGO) 12/09/03 08:40 PM

Agree'd! 15K on my FSVT fronts, 2 track days, 1 autocross and they're still like new!

--------------------
1999 SVT Contour, 2004 SRT4
& Lots Others...

Currently building my 1999 SVT for NASA's TT
REAL racers do it twisty!!



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thejms
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#476247 (Re: SVTb4SRT4) 12/10/03 12:57 AM

Can anyone post pics of the svt rotors vs the focus rotors. I just cant seem to picture the size difference.

--------------------
Justin Schmidt
2000 SVT Tour
#1620 of 2150
Born 1/15/2000





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DemonSVT
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#477590 (Re: thejms) 12/11/03 04:57 AM

Originally posted by thejms:
Can anyone post pics of the svt rotors vs the focus rotors. I just cant seem to picture the size difference.



The difference is about 20mm


Get a ruler...

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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thejms
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#477712 (Re: DemonSVT) 12/11/03 06:18 AM

I am more of a visual type person

--------------------
Justin Schmidt
2000 SVT Tour
#1620 of 2150
Born 1/15/2000





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todras
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#477832 (Re: thejms) 12/11/03 02:15 PM

Then imagine an SVT rotor and add an inch to it.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#501595 (Re: todras) 01/14/04 03:01 AM

Nine pages of info on this.

By now don't you think if it were that easy to do that it would be done? I never say never, but I'd be all over it if it were a simple project.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
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stilov
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#712012 (Re: thejms) 09/14/04 01:54 AM

Id the rpice on the mods page correct for the FSVT calipers? After the core they come to about 98 a piece? So there is like a what, 70 core charge? They list on parts counter express for like 167 or so?

--------------------
98 E0 SVT with some stuff


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5th gear
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#874139 (Re: stilov) 03/12/05 04:25 AM

Hey, is this thread still active?

I haven't done this yet... but as soon as the weather clears here in Detroit, I will be adding FSVT rotors with an FSVT bracket to the existing CSVT caliper. If I'm not mistaken, it should bolt right up with 3mm spacers.

Am I missing something?

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stilov
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#874885 (Re: 5th gear) 03/13/05 03:40 PM

where are you getting just the brackets?

--------------------
98 E0 SVT with some stuff


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Todd TCE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#875220 (Re: stilov) 03/14/05 12:13 AM

Oh never mind. I'll delete the post.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

Edited by Todd TCE (03/14/05 12:14 AM)

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NorMich99SE
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#881707 (Re: Todd TCE) 03/20/05 04:16 AM

OK, maybe I missed it or am just dense, either is possible, but has anyone said if the FSVT Rotor, caliper, and braket will bolt up to the Contour knuckle? I'm not thinking of price or anything, just if a direct, complete swap over will work.

--------------------
Shawn Clone
Jezabel- 1999 SE Sport V6 MTX- Severly wounded, comatose
Silver frost/Black Exterior-Midnight Blue Interior
The Firecracker- 1995 Mystique LS V6 MTX stock and backfiring like a rifle shot
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TourDeForce
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#881973 (Re: NorMich99SE) 03/20/05 03:58 PM

Originally posted by NorMich99SE:
OK, maybe I missed it or am just dense, either is possible, but has anyone said if the FSVT Rotor, caliper, and braket will bolt up to the Contour knuckle? I'm not thinking of price or anything, just if a direct, complete swap over will work.




According to what I have read & the discussion I had with Bill Jenkins last week, all you will need other than the above is 3mm hardened washers/spacers that will center the caliper & bracket over the rotor.

--------------------
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.

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5th gear
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#883631 (Re: TourDeForce) 03/22/05 02:22 AM

Okay, correction to my post above... since I have a 2000 CSVT, the old caliper won't work with the new bracket and pads as I was hoping. I did the complete change to FSVT parts last week and had no problems (calipers, rotors, and pads). A noticeable improvement to braking performance, to say the least.

If you're like me and have a 2000 or 99 (built post 5/27) CSVT, you can't do just the bracket and pads... gotta' get the new caliper.

To answer an earlier question, I was intending to get the FSVT bracket from Murray's or some other discount store. I'm pretty sure you can get a re-manufactured caliper and bracket for dirt cheap (less than $40?)... just use the bracket. That's a small price to pay rather than tring to fab up your own bracket. But this only works for those who have the older (pre-5/27/99) CSVT caliper.

Good luck!



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stilov
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#886053 (Re: 5th gear) 03/24/05 04:44 AM

I would like to know where you actually found or if you did...the fsvt brackets only.

--------------------
98 E0 SVT with some stuff


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hmouta
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#923988 (Re: stilov) 04/28/05 03:44 AM

so your saying my 4/99 built 99 can just use the fsvt bracket and rotors on my stock calipers? cuz that would be awesome. what type of spacers exactly? where would i find them?

--------------------
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
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Bill @ SigLM
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#931716 (Re: hmouta) 05/04/05 08:10 PM

Hey guys, here is the pricing breakdown on the FSVT conversion. This kit comes with New calipers pre-loaded with pads and brackets, and rotors And the 4 new bolts you need. you can pick up the 3mm spacers locally from what I am told.

2M5Z-2B120-AA List $173.35 CEG $130.01 Core $70
2M5Z-2B121-AA List $173.35 CEG $130.01 Core $70
2M5Z-1125-AA List $85.00 CEG $70.07 X 2 $140.14
W500443-S426 List $2.19 CEG $1.64 x 4 $6.56

You would get the $140 in cores back when I get the old calipers back, in the original boxes.

--------------------
Bill Jenkins

I am moving to Team Ford as of 08/01/05 (www.teamfordlv.com). I will post new info when it's ready.

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hmouta
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#932408 (Re: Bill @ SigLM) 05/05/05 05:14 AM

bill, is there a part# for just the brackets and bolts?

--------------------
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale

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Stazi
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#932547 (Re: hmouta) 05/05/05 12:50 PM

No. As you cannot use those brackets on the Contour calipers. They are different! I checked.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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Phil Rohtla
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#933021 (Re: Stazi) 05/05/05 07:45 PM

I thought that in an earlier post it was established that the E0 calipers would fit the brackets......

--------------------
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed

"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"

"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."

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Stazi
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#933062 (Re: Phil Rohtla) 05/05/05 08:27 PM

That I cannot say as I have an E1.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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todras
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#937199 (Re: Stazi) 05/10/05 04:19 PM

All the brackets are the same! Only the calipers changed.

SVT (1998 to 5/1999) cars are equipped with larger 278 x 24mm front rotors and larger ATE calipers and pads than standard Contours.

SVT (after 5/1999) also equipped with larger 278mm front rotors but with Cougar calipers that utilize the slightly smaller standard Contour pads


--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#937276 (Re: todras) 05/10/05 04:58 PM

Stazi, where is the issue w/ using the E1 calipers on the SVTF anchors? I've briefly looked at them but not side by side. (haven't had a chance to unfortunately) the slide pin spacing is the same, the mounting dimensions are close enough. . . is it something with the pad clearances?

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Stazi
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#937361 (Re: Rara) 05/10/05 05:57 PM

Bring over your disconnected caliper and we'll slip her on and see. I think the rotor offset causes an issue with the outer pad interference.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#937485 (Re: Stazi) 05/10/05 07:44 PM

oh, I've got brackets and rotors, I just haven't had time to monkey with it. I'll see if I can take a few minutes tonight and look at it.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#937876 (Re: Stazi) 05/11/05 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Stazi:
No. As you cannot use those brackets on the Contour calipers. They are different! I checked.




You didn't check very close . . .

You can use the FSVT anchor bracket with the contour caliper. The only differences from the full FSVT brake swap, is you pull the stock anchor bracket out, and slide the FSVT one into the stock caliper (be sure to re-grease the slide pins w/ brake grease); you also must modify the pad backing plate. The outer FSVT pad backing plate won't seat into the caliper quite right becuase of the profile of the top of the pad; take a grinder or cutoff wheel and shape the bump on it to match the bump on the top of the CSVT pad. You could use CSVT pads I suppose, but they require a bit of grinding down on the sides to clear the FSVT anchor bracket. I didn't try this.

Other than the swapping of the anchor brackets, and the re-shaping of the outer pad backing plate, this is identical to the full FSVT swap. Too bad the FSVT anchor bracket was never released as its own service part.

On Edit - btw, I verified this all tonight on my E1 CSVT

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

Edited by Rara (05/11/05 02:13 AM)

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Stazi
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#938159 (Re: Rara) 05/11/05 01:13 PM

I don't like the idea of grinding anything on brakes.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#938202 (Re: Stazi) 05/11/05 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Stazi:
I don't like the idea of grinding anything on brakes.




It is a completely non-structural portion of the pad backing plate, only used for alignment to the caliper body.

Last time I checked, I knew a thing or two about brakes myself. I have no qualms about the clearancing I did to the backing plate.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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hmouta
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#939193 (Re: Rara) 05/12/05 06:42 AM

Quote:

Too bad the FSVT anchor bracket was never released as its own service part.




so the bracket cant be ordered on its own then?

--------------------
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale

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RaraAdministrator
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#939329 (Re: hmouta) 05/12/05 01:55 PM

Originally posted by hmouta:
Quote:

Too bad the FSVT anchor bracket was never released as its own service part.




so the bracket cant be ordered on its own then?




That is the unfortunate truth. I tried, but I came to the party too late on the FSVT to get it released that way.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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obicanobi0
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#1053978 (Re: todras) 09/19/05 10:45 PM

Originally posted by todras:
All the brackets are the same! Only the calipers changed.

SVT (1998 to 5/1999) cars are equipped with larger 278 x 24mm front rotors and larger ATE calipers and pads than standard Contours.

SVT (after 5/1999) also equipped with larger 278mm front rotors but with Cougar calipers that utilize the slightly smaller standard Contour pads





I will disagree with that, I have an E0 svt, and it seemed that one of my brakets was tweaked. I have some E1 braket that I was going to replace it with and they wouldn't bolt up to the knucle.

--------------------
Fast Cheap reliable
Pick two

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Strictlyfocused7
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Re: ? Bracket allowing use of Focus SVT rotors ? new
#1070954 (Re: obicanobi0) 10/09/05 03:04 PM

go buy a focus

--------------------
99 Contour LX MTX, Cone Air Filter, Custom Grille
95 Neon ATX Intake, Ractive Muffler, Green Painted valve cover, fuel rail, and intake, b/w painted interior, white exterior trim, shaded tail lights

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warmonger
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Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doable new
#1082991 (Re: Rara) 10/23/05 06:55 PM

I got an extra wheel hub and some steel along with measuring everything to see what would happen with a bracket that will allow the CSVT brackets to fit FSVT rotors. It definitely will fit.
Just have to be creative on the way the adapter bracket is mounted. I've completed my preliminary sketches and measurements today and I think I'm going to make myself a set to see how it will come out.

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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warmonger
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090524 (Re: warmonger) 11/01/05 12:42 PM

Ok. I have gone through extensive measuring and knocked up a hub with FSVT rotor and built a bracket to offset the stock bracket.
I stand corrected a second time....sort of.
It will only fit with selected grinding of the mounting ears and with a reduction in the bolt diameter. Then it is very tight. I would not feel safe doing this even though the grinding that must be done is radially outward and perpendicular to the bolt holes. Am I right in assuming the forces are tangential? Well it would work but then if the monting ear ever developed a crack I'd be in a world of hurt. So I have scrapped the deal and ordered the fsvt calipers.

Ok, shifting gears now. What is required to protect the brake bias between front and rear with regard to changing rotor size?
I'm guessing if you move the fronts out a certain distance then the rears should also be increased.
The Increase in the front area going to fsvt rotors is about 16.4% or a 7% increase in diameter.

Lets assume you want to balance the brake bias, wouldn't you also want around the same increase in the rear brakes?

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Stazi
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090629 (Re: warmonger) 11/01/05 03:19 PM

Originally posted by warmonger:
Ok. I have gone through extensive measuring and knocked up a hub with FSVT rotor and built a bracket to offset the stock bracket.
I stand corrected a second time....sort of.
It will only fit with selected grinding of the mounting ears and with a reduction in the bolt diameter. Then it is very tight. I would not feel safe doing this even though the grinding that must be done is radially outward and perpendicular to the bolt holes. Am I right in assuming the forces are tangential? Well it would work but then if the monting ear ever developed a crack I'd be in a world of hurt. So I have scrapped the deal and ordered the fsvt calipers.

Ok, shifting gears now. What is required to protect the brake bias between front and rear with regard to changing rotor size?
I'm guessing if you move the fronts out a certain distance then the rears should also be increased.
The Increase in the front area going to fsvt rotors is about 16.4% or a 7% increase in diameter.

Lets assume you want to balance the brake bias, wouldn't you also want around the same increase in the rear brakes?




I wouldn't bother with trying to adjust the bias. YOu're calculation of the "increase" is too basic. You need to integrate the pad area over the distance away from the center of the hub to be more accurate. At the end of the day it still doesn't matter. My rear brake could be paper plates for all I care as they're there for the ride (AFAIC), and to hold the car from rolling when I apply the parking brake.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/01
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090642 (Re: Stazi) 11/01/05 03:36 PM

I figured it was very simplistic. Thats why I'm asking here if someone knows the answer. Just moving the pads outward gives a better leverage advantage so shouldn't that increase braking effect?
Well, there's always the looks factor, actually that is the most important factor to these questions. The factory rears look way too small anyway and probably look worse now with the Focus hardware going on.
So even if it doesn't help, I want to fix them for cosmetic reasons.

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
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Stazi
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090646 (Re: warmonger) 11/01/05 03:40 PM

Understood. If cosmetics is calling the shots, I gues syou can get the wilwood rear kit that's out there.

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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todras
I have no life

Reged: 05/29/00
Posts: 21197
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090651 (Re: Stazi) 11/01/05 03:43 PM

Then it would look odd having a cast & machined caliper.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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Stazi
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090653 (Re: todras) 11/01/05 03:45 PM

Hence why I say leave the rears alone!

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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DemonSVT
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090917 (Re: warmonger) 11/01/05 07:40 PM

This is exactly some of what I was talking about yesterday Tom. Save your information, data, and protoypes. I stopped giving new information out a long time ago. Let the others blindly walk in circles. That's all they want to do anyway.

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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Stazi
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090931 (Re: DemonSVT) 11/01/05 08:03 PM

Ouch!

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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todras
I have no life

Reged: 05/29/00
Posts: 21197
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1090936 (Re: Stazi) 11/01/05 08:16 PM

Someone got their on.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
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Loc: Ozark, AL
Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1091090 (Re: DemonSVT) 11/01/05 10:52 PM

Sometimes it sorta seems that way. I was just fishing a little to see if I could educate myself.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1091614 (Re: warmonger) 11/02/05 03:16 PM

hey, warmonger, thanks man, I can feel the love . . .



--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1091905 (Re: Rara) 11/02/05 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Rara:
hey, warmonger, thanks man, I can feel the love . . .





Not sure if that is a 'real' thanks or because you thought my last comment was directed at you. I didn't mean anything to you by that about the front brakes, my last comment had nothing to do with the caliper bracket issue.

But if you mean that for me saying that 'I stand corrected', then cool.

I am just a little poor at giving you a direct compliment . By getting back on here and admitting you were right all along....two years ago.... ...well you know. At least I'm willing to admit it.

I was going through fits on brakes and ready to drop a wad on the TCE kit. But then after running into all kinds of fitment issues because I have the FSVT wheels....$1700 just wasn't worth the headaches. I didn't want to spend money on wheels again either. So I decided worst case I'd get FSVT rotors and play around and see for myself. THen if it wouldn't work I'd just carry on and get the calipers since everyone is saying how well the fsvt brakes are working. That way I wouldn't waste any money and I'd see just for myself. So now I just went ahead and have the calipers ordered from Bill J.
I thought I had a good plan and spent an extra $50 constructing the bracket and spacers and I got it together on this extra hub I have on my bench. But I had to do too much modifying and with the fronts I didn't feel safe. At least now I have the details for my rear brakes all worked out.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1092003 (Re: warmonger) 11/02/05 09:14 PM

lol, sort of a backhanded dig because you didn't trust my work . . . no hard feelings, just hassling you.

A little birdy mentioned what you have put together for the rears . . . just be careful with rear bias, lol. I'd definately use a low friction pad on those to try to keep the balance somewhere in the ballpark at least.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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warmonger
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Reged: 08/16/01
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Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1092138 (Re: Rara) 11/02/05 11:03 PM

Hmmm. Are the stock pads low friction enough, or the bendix rears?

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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tropictour
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Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 1238
Loc: Renton, WA
Re: Bracket for FSVT rotors and CSVT stuff is doab new
#1092217 (Re: warmonger) 11/03/05 01:08 AM

What about installing a proportioning valve?
-tropictour

--------------------
2000 Contour SVT
Tropic Green
SHO Shop CAI
Bassani
1999 Contour SE
BAT Kit



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DemonSVT
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Changing bias works both ways. new
#1092380 (Re: Rara) 11/03/05 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Rara:
lol, sort of a backhanded dig because you didn't trust my work . . . no hard feelings, just hassling you.

A little birdy mentioned what you have put together for the rears . . . just be careful with rear bias, lol. I'd definately use a low friction pad on those to try to keep the balance somewhere in the ballpark at least.



He also will be running the 300mm front rotors. Those and the more aggressive front pads will easily offset the marginal improvement in rear braking ability.

What's horrible is people only doing fronts. That throws off the bias and the overall balance of the car tremendously. Why is it nobody is harping on them for destroying the stock bias or it being dangerous because of it?

If you want to get technical even just changing the front pads to an aggressive mix changes the bias.

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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Todd TCE
CEG'er

Reged: 03/19/02
Posts: 337
Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1092497 (Re: DemonSVT) 11/03/05 02:35 PM

Originally posted by DemonSVT:


What's horrible is people only doing fronts. That throws off the bias and the overall balance of the car tremendously. Why is it nobody is harping on them for destroying the stock bias or it being dangerous because of it?

If you want to get technical even just changing the front pads to an aggressive mix changes the bias.





That's not completely correct. You're assuming the fit of a front kit will grossly over bias the front brakes. I'll agree that pairing a front and rear of specific sizing has its benefits.

Yes pads alone can alter the % by more than most folks think. But adding front bias is in no way going to be "dangerous".

In the spirit of the often quoted ST wite pages....adding some rear bias can often improve the cars total braking performance. *Note however that not all their kits really do that as I was chuckling a bit at one of them recently on a platform cited to be such- it's not. Anyhow...when you consider that most folks take 'braking improvements' to mean both firmer pedal (wrongly assumed) and high speed braking you are actually speaking of dynamic braking, not the common reference to static bias.

Using some simple numbers like 75/25 (not uncommon on a FWD car) you'd assume that making this 65/35 would be far better. And in some slow speed cases you'd be right. However under high speed stops where weight shif is greater you'd be over working the fronts. They still do the job but take far more pressure input to get the job done. Assuming you might pull 1.2G under hard braking you might want to consider 77/23 for example. Where the fronts keep pace with the required braking.

My point is that you can't really over brake the front of the car and be dangerous. Within some common sense levels at least. I'm not suggesting one massive front kit with no rears.

For the most part the TCE white pages subscribe to the simple theory of 'larger rotor, less piston area, tune with pad'. This formula permits the fronts attain torque with leverage, firm up the pedal, and require a bit more input pressure to keep pace. The pad selection can then ramp up the required front torque to keep pace with the weight shift. By my notes the Contour requires nearly identical leg pressure on a 13"/6pot as the stock brakes. And the bias is within 2.5% of stock. Under hard braking however when fit with good pads; the stock brakes require 80# of leg where the above kit requires only 60# to achieve the same rotor torque. In this case the rear line pressure on the stock brakes is 541psi, the 13" kit has a rear line pressure of only 406. Depending upon the knee point of the stock prop valve the stock parts are probably shut down completely and the BBK still keeping modest pressure to compliment the front kit. Which one do you think is going to provide a more stable brake platform?

Let's consider the 'bigger is better rear' proposal. For fun:
Front- stock caliper on 12" rotor
Rear- 2.125 piston on 11" rotor
Both with off the shelf .40Cf pads

How about a 61/39 bias? Not for me thank you. You'd need a good prop valve to reduce this rear bias as you mentioned. In fact, if my program is correct you'll have to drop the 541psi input down to a lowly 125psi to get to the same torque value as the 13" example with the race pads. Seeing that the valve allows for a max of about 50% you won't get there.....With half you'll net 77% front bias- still more than you'd be able to use under hard braking I suspect. So what do you do? Add mega front pads to the car. Fit a .55Cf pad to the stock caliper and you'll be at 84% again. Not bad, but like all the other kits you'll be right back to the rears being along for the ride! With full reduction at the valve. Go back to lower pressures and street use with this and you're at 68/32.

I'm not going to say you cannot make some of this work for you. But you're going to find the needs of static and dynamic braking moments are going to play hell with the idea. The idea of the prop valve is to tune it to conditions not use it as a driver aide every time you pull out of the driveway. And with much larger rear calipers we never got to pedal feel. Think long and soft.

Maybe I'm just rambling too much for you but it's worth some thought at least.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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TourDeForce
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Reged: 03/04/03
Posts: 7117
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL - Going to Jupiter someday
Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1092754 (Re: Todd TCE) 11/03/05 06:49 PM

If I put bigger brakes on front & bigger meats on the wheels, the rear is going to be lighter under hard braking. If I don't compensate (reduce) brake performance at the rear, I'm looking at possible rear lock-up on a non-ABS car. Therefore, I don't worry about the rears except to be certain I avoid rear lockup.

If you've got ABS, does it really matter?? You brake as hard as you need to & the wheels won't lock up, so you can pretty much bias things whatever way - within reason. The ABS system is pre-programmed for specific criteria... True??

--------------------
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1093426 (Re: TourDeForce) 11/04/05 04:50 AM

Ditto what Todd said.

TourDeForce, your ABS module is only calibrated for peak performance with EXACTLY what comes on the car from the factory. Step too far with your changes, or the wrong way, and the ABS may not be able to compensate. And then there is always the question of what happens when you have an ABS failure? say a wheel speed sensor gets damaged . . . too much rear bias, and the car is grossly dangerous.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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RTStabler51
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1093431 (Re: Rara) 11/04/05 04:54 AM

So, if you go to a Big Brake Kit (>Focus SVT) then should you disable ABS? Or is that only for 'extreme' circumstances?

--------------------
Ryan
Trollin!


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tropictour
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1093460 (Re: RTStabler51) 11/04/05 05:43 AM

What about using the FSVT master cylinder? Would that help with the distribution? I havent seen a FSVT MC so Im just spitballing.
-tropictour

--------------------
2000 Contour SVT
Tropic Green
SHO Shop CAI
Bassani
1999 Contour SE
BAT Kit



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Todd TCE
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Reged: 03/19/02
Posts: 337
Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1093591 (Re: tropictour) 11/04/05 02:52 PM

Nope. The Focus MC is smaller.
And changing the MC won't change the bias. *at least not static.

Being smaller it will provide more pressure for the given leg. That's going to mean two things; longer pedal (probably bottomed with massive rear calipers) and increased pressure which will only go to activate a prop valve sooner, thus cutting rear pressure sooner.

If you were to run all that caliper piston area I'd say do a 1.062 or 1.125" mc. Lower out put per leg, firmer feel, and ample volume.


*what I find interesting is that in the 12 years I've been playing with this stuff I see the factory changing how they do things too. Used to be that most of the car had large piston areas and larger bore MCs than I'm seeing on current cars. They have opted for larger rotors- from about 10" to a more common 11.5 as a rough guess. This nets the same things we in the biz offer but on a more tame level. The single pot on the Impala SS is huge, the SHO quite large, the Contour stil much bigger than say that found on the SRT4 or the small parts on the MINI. The current design seems to favor more rotor, less pistona and elevated line pressures. Can you guys comment?

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

Edited by Todd TCE (11/04/05 02:59 PM)

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warmonger
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1094053 (Re: Todd TCE) 11/04/05 10:38 PM

Wow. This is so informative. So what happens when you raise the front piston and rotor size but keep the same rear piston size using bigger rotors.
In effect, you change piston size on your front kits and use the stock rear caliper with bigger rotors.
I guess what i'm asking is this: If you don't change the rear piston size and pad type then what good is the larger rear rotor and how does it throw off the bias with larger fronts? With stock fronts?

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Todd TCE
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1094278 (Re: warmonger) 11/05/05 04:28 AM

Originally posted by warmonger:
Wow. This is so informative. So what happens when you raise the front piston and rotor size

The front bias % goes up.

but keep the same rear piston size using bigger rotors.

The rear bias % goes up.

In effect, you change piston size on your front kits and use the stock rear caliper with bigger rotors.

Depending upon the numbers you end up right back to the same basic % the factory started with- or very near it.

I guess what i'm asking is this: If you don't change the rear piston size and pad type then what good is the larger rear rotor

It adds leverage in simple effect, adds more thermal capacity, balances out the front kit, and looks better.

and how does it throw off the bias with larger fronts?

It doesn't.

With stock fronts?

It could have a bad effect.




--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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warmonger
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Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1094409 (Re: Todd TCE) 11/05/05 01:38 PM

Ok, this is what I got out of that:
- raising the fronts with the FSVT kit will increase the front bias which isn't dangerous at all.
- raising the rear bias without touching the fronts is bad, and is accomplished by pad or piston change. Rotor affects it less.

- raising the front bias and increasing just the rotor diameter on the rears with everything else the same seems to be ok.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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supertouringmike
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Reged: 09/25/02
Posts: 456
Loc: South Florida
Re: Changing bias works both ways. new
#1229266 (Re: warmonger) 05/01/06 08:00 PM

Hey, when are these brackets coming to a CEG'er "near me"?

i want wit 300mm rotors...............

--------------------
01 PORSCHE 996
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