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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
autox pad noise
#1074319 - 10/13/05 03:17 AM

How loud are autox pads supposed to be?
I put hawk autox pads on the front and street pads on the rear of my escort and is insanely loud when braking, though it does stop great. Just wondering if something is wrong or not?

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 4140
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074461 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/13/05 11:37 AM

Did you really take the time to grease and clean everything when you put them on, and bed them in properly? A good brake job involves more than just slapping pads on. Not implying you didn't, just asking. My first time was horribly squeaky as well.

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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todras
I have no life

Reged: 05/29/00
Posts: 21197
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074568 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/13/05 02:11 PM

Might have a high metallic content. Could also need a lot of heat to work best.

--------------------
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074613 (Re: todras) 10/13/05 02:55 PM

noise is common for high friction pads. Much of the OEM development work on brakes is to get rid of all that noise by changing all the natural frequencies of the parts.
Aftermarket pad companies do less than 1/10th of what OEMs do to get rid of noise, and "race" pad makers typically do virtually nothing for noise, except the crappy grease to put on the back of the pad.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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morbid
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074638 (Re: Rara) 10/13/05 03:20 PM

Isn't there a triangle that the pads typically fall into? Being "Quiet", "Perfomance", "Low dust"? So performance pads would typically be more dusty and noisy, where OEM's might be on the quiet side?

--------------------
morbid
2000 Contour SVT (black)


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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074712 (Re: morbid) 10/13/05 04:30 PM

Originally posted by morbid:
Isn't there a triangle that the pads typically fall into? Being "Quiet", "Perfomance", "Low dust"? So performance pads would typically be more dusty and noisy, where OEM's might be on the quiet side?




Not really that simple. OEM pads are only as quiet as they are (and usually, but not always, low dust) because of extensive work on component natural frequencies, and stopping vibration transmission through components. Aftermarket companies, whether performance oriented or not, simply don't have that luxury of making design changes to anything but the pads themselves.

I will say that more aggressive linings (pad material) will virtually always be higher dusting, either actual pad dust, or rotor dust.

Honestly, brake pad material compounding is almost a black art, even still. There is all sorts of different materials that can be used for different things, and each one interacts with different materials differently, and then they all react differently depending on the mixing process for the compound.

Another aspect is the variation of the material properties from pad to pad from the same manufacturer. The variation in aftermarket pads is HUGE, because there is no watchdog that ensures how tightly each pad meets the original design intent. Where OEM has to worry about the NHTSA coming and picking any car at random off a dealer lot and running the Federal brake tests (FMVSS135 or FMVSS105 depending ont he vehicle) and if it got a bad batch of pads, that automaker is in a HUGE world of hurt. So, OEMs keep pad material properties under pretty tight control from thier suppliers.

ok, enough of the brake pad lessons, lol.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074737 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/13/05 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Did you really take the time to grease and clean everything when you put them on, and bed them in properly? A good brake job involves more than just slapping pads on. Not implying you didn't, just asking. My first time was horribly squeaky as well.



I greased the back of the pads. I didn't grease the bolts on the front calipers but did the rears since I also replaced the rear calipers (one was seizing). I sorta bedded them in. Bedding didn't matter too much, since this weekend they're really gonna get bedded in over and over and over and over (hopefully).

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1074813 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/13/05 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Did you really take the time to grease and clean everything when you put them on, and bed them in properly? A good brake job involves more than just slapping pads on. Not implying you didn't, just asking. My first time was horribly squeaky as well.



I greased the back of the pads. I didn't grease the bolts on the front calipers but did the rears since I also replaced the rear calipers (one was seizing). I sorta bedded them in. Bedding didn't matter too much, since this weekend they're really gonna get bedded in over and over and over and over (hopefully).





My CSVT has new calipers, SS brake hoses, KVR slotted and drilled rotors w/ KVR CF pads [no shims at all], went light on the grease [cars from the factory don't have grease slopped all over everything], followed the break-in guide lines. Great stopping power and I've never had a problem with noise.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075400 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/14/05 01:41 AM

I was light on the grease as well. O well, it stops great. Co-worker (mechanic, I work at a tire shop) drove it and said it's all good, just noisy. I don't mind the noise, but I'm sure when I fly up on people and stop suddenly but with all that noise, it probably scares them.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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Todd TCE
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Reged: 03/19/02
Posts: 337
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075447 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/14/05 02:40 AM

I'm not sure exactly what "Hawk Autocross pads" are. There is no such listing that I know of.

My guess is that they are HP+ compound. Good for AX as they have good cold/low temp bite.

Try some HPS compound if you want them quieter.

--------------------
Less Bling, more Zing
Todd/TCE
www.tceperformanceproducts.com

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075460 (Re: Todd TCE) 10/14/05 02:51 AM

Yes HP plus and HPS in the rear. I just said autox because hawk says that's what they're good for, and just to say it's a performance pad for anyone not familiar with the hawk line.

I don't really mind the noise, just wanted to make sure it's ok.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075574 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/14/05 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Yes HP plus and HPS in the rear. I just said autox because hawk says that's what they're good for, and just to say it's a performance pad for anyone not familiar with the hawk line.

I don't really mind the noise, just wanted to make sure it's ok.




I don't know about mixing *track* pads on one axle w/ *street* pads on the other. Seems like they're be a conflict there. I'd go with all Plus or all HPS, depending on your needs. Anyway, took a quick look at Hawk's site. I've never heard of them, but I wouldn't mind trying out some of those HPS for myself.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075593 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/14/05 12:09 PM

There is no problem mixing pads atleast a pad that is designed for autox (so not all at track pad) and a performance street pad. I looked around and a lot of people do it. The rear does a lot less of the braking, so to save money on initial purchase, future purchase (the hps will last longer), and rotor wear, I went with hps in the rear.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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Big Jim
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Reged: 09/03/00
Posts: 4693
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California, USA
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075632 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/14/05 12:49 PM

It is a common thing to mix styles from front to rear. It is most common to use a more agressive pad on the front.

Think about it, even the factory does it.

--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075741 (Re: Big Jim) 10/14/05 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Big Jim:
It is a common thing to mix styles from front to rear. It is most common to use a more agressive pad on the front.

Think about it, even the factory does it.





No they don't. I've never seen where the factory will mix track pads with street pads.

Semi-mets with organic and ceramic, yes.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1075747 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/14/05 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
There is no problem mixing pads atleast a pad that is designed for autox (so not all at track pad) and a performance street pad. I looked around and a lot of people do it. The rear does a lot less of the braking, so to save money on initial purchase, future purchase (the hps will last longer), and rotor wear, I went with hps in the rear.





Do what you want. I'd never mix race-day pads with street pads...and if I chose race-day pads, I'd be sure to get rotors that were up for the task. I know that it's common to mix pads...semi-mets w/ ceramic and organic on OEM rotors. Didn't know it was okay to mix race/non-race.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 4140
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: autox pad noise new
#1076319 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/14/05 11:02 PM

HP+ are NOT race pads. The HPS and HP+ are both street compounds that have good cold torque.

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1076516 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/15/05 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
HP+ are NOT race pads. The HPS and HP+ are both street compounds that have good cold torque.




"HPS - Performance Street Compound"

"HP Plus - Autocross & Track Compound"



--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/11/03
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Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077149 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/16/05 07:24 PM

" The HP Plus Ferro-Carbon material can take the heat at the track and get you home safely without having to change your brake pads. This compound was designed for autocross, Solo II, and Track Day applications."

Note that the HP+ pads are found under "Performance", NOT "Motorsports". The reason it's bad to mess with race/street pads is because race pads ONLY work well at high temps. Street pads, with the exception of pads like the HP+, fade, often quite badly, at high temps. This means your brake bias will dramatically change with temperature, and your car may not stop well when cold. Both are obviously bad situations.

HP+ pads are streetable pads that work well at low temperatures, and thus are completely safe for Kremit's use.


Like Kremit said before you started crapping all over this thread,

Quote:

There is no problem mixing pads, at least a pad that is designed for autox (so not all at track pad) and a performance street pad.




And since you've never heard of Hawk, I'd say it's a safe assumption you don't know jack about high performance pads. So why would you post at all?

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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moxnix
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Reged: 07/20/00
Posts: 2100
Loc: VA
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077376 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/17/05 01:22 AM

As long as they are giving you the braking balance that you are looking for mixing pads is not a problem (On the miata it is common to put good pads on the rear and normal street pads on the front.)

All the HP+ that I have heard at AutoX make a squeaking noise when braking so I don't think it is anything to worry about.

--------------------
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077514 (Re: moxnix) 10/17/05 04:18 AM

Thanks moxnix.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077583 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/17/05 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
" The HP Plus Ferro-Carbon material can take the heat at the track and get you home safely without having to change your brake pads. This compound was designed for autocross, Solo II, and Track Day applications."




Probably why they list them as "autocross & track" pads and list the HPS as street only pads?


Quote:

Note that the HP+ pads are found under "Performance", NOT "Motorsports". The reason it's bad to mess with race/street pads is because race pads ONLY work well at high temps. Street pads, with the exception of pads like the HP+, fade, often quite badly, at high temps. This means your brake bias will dramatically change with temperature, and your car may not stop well when cold. Both are obviously bad situations.




Well, looks like Kremit's HPS street pads might send him into a bad situation at the track...maybe with drilled rotors on the rear...good rotors front and rear probably would get the most out of his "autocross & track" pads, but he's worried about the cost not the proper setup.


Quote:

HP+ pads are streetable pads that work well at low temperatures, and thus are completely safe for Kremit's use.




...on the street?

But does Hawk list their HPS pads as trackable? Or will they *tend to fade quite badly*?


Quote:

Like Kremit said before you started crapping all over this thread,

Quote:

There is no problem mixing pads, at least a pad that is designed for autox (so not all at track pad) and a performance street pad.




And since you've never heard of Hawk, I'd say it's a safe assumption you don't know jack about high performance pads. So why would you post at all?




Kremit also stated that he went with the non-race days on the rear because he wanted to save money, not because he thought it would work best for him on the track.

Would HP+ front and rear work better for him at the track [better if he didn't put them on non-machined OEM rotors that he admitted were not bedded in properly]?

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 4140
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077599 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/17/05 11:38 AM

Your point was that it was dangerous to run mixed pads. I showed you very clearly that this combination was fine. The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more, but less rear braking is not a dangerous situation. Also, he's not on the track. HPS will have less torque and tend to fade more than HP+, but they are still better than junk bads that go greasy after a few hard stops. I highly doubt they will fade noticeably at even the most brake-intensive autocrss.

So why are you insisting on getting in the last word?

This thread started with a question about noise, which was resolved by info from experts in both braking and autocross. A good question, and some solid facts: HP+ make noise. Don't worry.

But you ask if it's okay to run pads like this.

Kremit explains that he knows what he's doing, and it's okay.

But you have to tell him and Jim they are wrong. Why? Is it because your mad t!te drilled and slotted rotors are so hawt that you are the brake masta? Or because you Unlocked the Power?

So I set you straight. Moxnix, who's probably run more autocross events than anyone here, backs up Kremit and myself.

You aren't satisfied, because your immature little brain can't handle the fact that I'm telling you factual information, not marketing crap. You take my post and quote it, with a little comment after each quote, like that somehow PROVES that you're right.

Well now people are going to come here and read through all this crap before they realize that it's okay to run HP+ and HPS pads. They'll probably start another thread and ask again because you had to act like you know what you were talking about and mindlessly bash your head against the keyboard, resulting in the inane drivel I see before me.

This site is not about one-upmanship or petty know-it-alls. The fact is, there is no problem at all with running these pads. You are backpedaling and looking for loopholes in what I said, just to save face, so that your pathetic little ego can get a boost. Well I said it before, but maybe you didn't get it: You don't know jack about brakes. Suggesting that he use drilled rotors in the rear, for autocross, put the lid on that one. That is the worst tech I've ever seen passed off here. It's absolute rubbish. So how about you let the facts stand, so that people can learn the truth about brake pads. Go ask someone for a hug if you need a self-esteem boost that badly. You don't belong in the brake section of an online car forum if you're looking for Prozac.

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077618 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/17/05 12:31 PM


Quote:

I'd go with all Plus or all HPS, depending on your needs.




Guess I better watch that kind of logic in the future...might be considered too left-field and radical, too lofty and crappy for some.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

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Re: autox pad noise new
#1077632 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/17/05 12:58 PM

Thank you for proving my point. You are so in need of feeling like you were right that you pick the one sentence that you know was true by what I said and repost it. Well his needs are saving money and not wearing through all four rotors too fast, so I say his setup is perfect for his needs. Of course better pads all around is an improvement, but he is getting most of the benifits with less cost, which makes sense on a budget. You've backpedaled all the way, and now we're in agreement, since I've proven that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to ignore this thread because it's Monday and I have a long week of work ahead of me. I hope that you'll accept that facts are better to post than "I'm right" bullcrap, and leave this alone.

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077647 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/17/05 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Your point was that it was dangerous to run mixed pads. I showed you very clearly that this combination was fine.




You steered it to being *fine* on the street...that was never my point, young lion.


Quote:

The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more




EXACTLY MY POINT!!!


Quote:

Also, he's not on the track.




Strike all of your previous thoughts on this thread, because Kremit will be *on the track*, as usual...yes?


Quote:

HPS will have less torque and tend to fade more than HP+





Agreed


Quote:

but they are still better than junk bads that go greasy after a few hard stops. I highly doubt they will fade noticeably at even the most brake-intensive autocrss.




I'd never take the chance. As I've stated before on this thread, I'd buy all HPS or all HP+, depending on the need. Seeing that Kremit does go *on the track* and doesn't just park his car in the lot when he gets there, I'd have gone with all HP+

Quote:

So why are you insisting on getting in the last word?




You jumped on me and tried to pretend that my original concern was for Kremit's *street* days instead of his *track* days.

Quote:

This thread started with a question about noise, which was resolved by info from experts in both braking and autocross. A good question, and some solid facts: HP+ make noise. Don't worry.

But you ask if it's okay to run pads like this.




No, not pads like this [HP+], pads like that [HPS] on the track.

Quote:

Kremit explains that he knows what he's doing, and it's okay.




No, look again. He based his decision on cutting corners with the cost, not based on what will work best together on the track.

Quote:

But you have to tell him and Jim they are wrong. Why?




Wrong, Jim said factory mix compounds so it's okay. I said factory mixes semi-met w/ ceramics and organics, not semi-mets w/ "Autocross & Track" pads.


Quote:

Is it because your mad t!te drilled and slotted rotors are so hawt that you are the brake masta? Or because you Unlocked the Power?




Champ, I noticed that your SE hits the parking lot with stock rotors.

Quote:

So I set you straight.




No, you based your hissy on the hopes that Kremit's HPS/HP+ would work well in cold conditions on the street...that was never my point.


Quote:

You aren't satisfied, because your immature little brain can't handle the fact that I'm telling you factual information, not marketing crap. You take my post and quote it, with a little comment after each quote, like that somehow PROVES that you're right.




If HAWK wanted their HPS pads on the autocross/track WHY the need for them to develope their HP+ autocross/track pads for the autocross/track?

Quote:

Well now people are going to come here and read through all this crap before they realize that it's okay to run HP+ and HPS pads.




Unless they read:

"The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more" --Auto-X Fil


Quote:

They'll probably start another thread and ask again because you had to act like you know what you were talking about and mindlessly bash your head against the keyboard, resulting in the inane drivel I see before me.




You're the one that's tripping all over your previous statements, not I.


Quote:

This site is not about one-upmanship or petty know-it-alls. The fact is, there is no problem at all with running these pads. You are backpedaling and looking for loopholes in what I said, just to save face, so that your pathetic little ego can get a boost.




You're the one that defends Kremit's setup for the street and then turn right around and agree with me that it's not that good of a choice for the track, due to the risk of fade with the HPS.

Quote:

Well I said it before, but maybe you didn't get it: You don't know jack about brakes. Suggesting that he use drilled rotors in the rear, for autocross, put the lid on that one.




Parking lot king, you missed the point that I was making about your statement for Kremit's HPS pads not being able to handle the heat. You expected me to say slotted so Kremit's street pads would heat up that much faster, and stay heated, for when he takes his Contour to the track?


Quote:

That is the worst tech I've ever seen passed off here. It's absolute rubbish. So how about you let the facts stand, so that people can learn the truth about brake pads. Go ask someone for a hug if you need a self-esteem boost that badly. You don't belong in the brake section of an online car forum if you're looking for Prozac.




You're letting your emotions get the best of you, warrior.

You're just making excuses and getting too upset over my original concern, which you've already confirmed, whether you're stable enough to catch it or not.

You said that the HP+/HPS setup might experience problems on the track, where Kremit will be. I knew that he'd be there...that's why I originally came out with the jaw-dropping notion that all HPS or all HP+ just might work best together, depending on the needs of the driver.

If you're cutting corners somewhere, don't expect the same results as somebody that doesn't cut those same corners.


"The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more" --Auto-X Fil


'nuff said

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1077666 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/17/05 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Thank you for proving my point. You are so in need of feeling like you were right that you pick the one sentence that you know was true by what I said and repost it. Well his needs are saving money and not wearing through all four rotors too fast, so I say his setup is perfect for his needs. Of course better pads all around is an improvement, but he is getting most of the benifits with less cost, which makes sense on a budget. You've backpedaled all the way, and now we're in agreement, since I've proven that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to ignore this thread because it's Monday and I have a long week of work ahead of me. I hope that you'll accept that facts are better to post than "I'm right" bullcrap, and leave this alone.





Look again. That was MY quote [several days old] that was reposted, not yours.

Thank you for proving my point, even tho' you're not quick enough to notice it yet. And you're the only one that's backpedaled all the way...using your *budget* crutch now, after you were forced to agree that his HPS pads won't do as well on the track, like I originally brought up.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078238 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/17/05 11:21 PM

Sonofanun, when am I going to a track? I haven't heard of me going to a track. Please inform me so I can be sure to make it.


ANYWAYS, the pads (all of them) held up fine in the mountains (www.tailofthedragon.com). You can ask other members (gmk,gulfcat,etc.) that were there if they agree that my brakes were good.

Of course, HPS is not as good as HP+. The rear does less braking, so it's not a big deal. I could have very easily spent the $20 more on the HP+ pads, but really, there would be no point. Wow, I'd get maybe .001 second faster in autox lap times. Since I'm only locally competive, that wouldn't matter.

The only thing you said that is right, is that HPS don't do as well on the track as HP+. That's like saying, when it rains, the ground is wetter than when it doesn't rain.

I have no plans on my car seeing a track and my brake setup works fine. End of story.

Thanks everyone for the few useful posts. Sorry to anyone reading this that had to read through crap.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078303 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/18/05 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Sonofanun, when am I going to a track? I haven't heard of me going to a track. Please inform me so I can be sure to make it.




So your Escort is your only track car? Kind of foolish to put track pads on your Contour, if you never plan getting it off of the street.


Quote:

Of course, HPS is not as good as HP+. The rear does less braking, so it's not a big deal. I could have very easily spent the $20 more on the HP+ pads, but really, there would be no point. Wow, I'd get maybe .001 second faster in autox lap times. Since I'm only locally competive, that wouldn't matter.




Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.

Quote:

I have no plans on my car seeing a track and my brake setup works fine. End of story.




HPS is what I would have gone with then...seeing that you've already stated that you're worried with rotor wear.


Quote:

Thanks everyone for the few useful posts. Sorry to anyone reading this that had to read through crap.




You're just a poser. You throw "Autocross & Track" pads on stock rotors, and street pads on the rear...then you say you'll never get that setup on the track. Does the same go for your adjustable gears? Ever adjust them, or are they just for looks? The reason why you're missing the top piece of your timing belt cover?

End of story.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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moxnix
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 07/20/00
Posts: 2100
Loc: VA
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078331 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 02:04 AM

Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.




AutoX is not the same as Track.

Who cares in a brake thread why he has adjustable gears or what use they are put to?

--------------------
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends

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hubert
Newbie

Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 2
Wheee, Lookie here, we've got a flyin' Nun... new
#1078352 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 02:27 AM

Originally posted by SonofaNun:



My CSVT has new calipers, SS brake hoses, KVR slotted and drilled rotors w/ KVR CF pads [no shims at all], went light on the grease [cars from the factory don't have grease slopped all over everything], followed the break-in guide lines. Great stopping power and I've never had a problem with noise.




Oh wow, the great Flying Nun lecturing us all on brake dynamics and setups while running blingtastic, jantastic, boulevard pimpin' cross drilled rotors.

FFOG for you pal.

A few declerations to aver against your rampant ignorance:

1. People who run cross drilled rotors are monkeys and also think of aftermarket shift knobs as a "mod."

2. Anyone who doesn't defer to someone with greater experience regarding the topic at hand, you know, like someone who's talking from actually having done "it" is a jackass (read: you, Flying Nunnie Penile Projectile)

3. Running staggered brake compounds, front to rear, cheesedick, is perfectly fine and is a common way to adjust brake bias in cars not equipped with manually adjustable proportioning valves; the utlization of compounds with different co-efficents of friction is a simple way to tune your braking force front to rear and is done ALL THE TIME by people whose brain isn't a wet noodle (read: everyone but you). Brake bias, look it up.

4. You can run a race pad in the front and a street pad in the rear just fine; I did so for years on the street and on the track and it was fine. No ill effects other than the standard added noise and dust on account of the track compound. Gasp, shock, horror ... facts ... what are you going to do, you can't run from facts, they'll find you sooner or later and burn down that Zepplin expanded to capacity with all the hot air you're spewing.

5. Depending on the driver's skill level, the vehicle's mass and the tires used, a high performance street pad or light duty track pad will work fine, can you guess why? Becuase the service envelope of the pads won't be exceeded by the application - care to guess? Because novice driver's aren't fast enough to beat down the equipment. I've used OEM pads in a pinch and simply adjusted my driving style, other novice track drivers go 2, 3 maybe even 4 events on OEM pads and rotors, before they need to replace them. See, there again, is that actually having been there and done it coming back to haunt you; spend less time waxing your Jantastic cross drilled rotors, and spend more time driving and you'll eventually come upon a clue. Then again, you probably won't.

6. Should you open your interweb mouth again on this topic, at least try and get some conductivity between those ears before doing so, because the utter nonsense in your commentary is virtual bleeding out through the ears of goo.

Warmest Regards,
Son of a [censored].

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hubert
Newbie

Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 2
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078358 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/18/05 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
How loud are autox pads supposed to be?
I put hawk autox pads on the front and street pads on the rear of my escort and is insanely loud when braking, though it does stop great. Just wondering if something is wrong or not?




It's perfectly normal. My pads (Cobalt Spec VRs) moan like stuck pigs when really cold and give a subtle chirp on initial application when braking after a decently long straight.

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078370 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 02:43 AM

Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Sonofanun, when am I going to a track? I haven't heard of me going to a track. Please inform me so I can be sure to make it.




So your Escort is your only track car? Kind of foolish to put track pads on your Contour, if you never plan getting it off of the street.


Quote:

Of course, HPS is not as good as HP+. The rear does less braking, so it's not a big deal. I could have very easily spent the $20 more on the HP+ pads, but really, there would be no point. Wow, I'd get maybe .001 second faster in autox lap times. Since I'm only locally competive, that wouldn't matter.




Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.

Quote:

I have no plans on my car seeing a track and my brake setup works fine. End of story.




HPS is what I would have gone with then...seeing that you've already stated that you're worried with rotor wear.


Quote:

Thanks everyone for the few useful posts. Sorry to anyone reading this that had to read through crap.




You're just a poser. You throw "Autocross & Track" pads on stock rotors, and street pads on the rear...then you say you'll never get that setup on the track. Does the same go for your adjustable gears? Ever adjust them, or are they just for looks? The reason why you're missing the top piece of your timing belt cover?

End of story.




WTF are you talking about!? I don't have track pads on the contour. I have the mintex crap from BAT on it. This thread IS ABOUT MY ESCORT. And my escort is not a track car. I don't own a "track car".



Sounds like I have track plans for my contour? Well, again I don't have a track car, and have no plans on taking my cars to any track. I have autox'd my contour a couple times and it's OK. I autox my escort regularly and it's locally competetive. But what is all this about a track?


I'm not really worried with rotor wear or anything. I was just stating the fact (only because you questioned it). There would not be a significant improve in braking with the hp+ pad in the rear. So by going with the hps pad, I save some money and rotor wear. Sorry if I confused you.



Just a poser? What am I posing as? Please tell me. Yeap, I put autox pads on the front and street performance pads on the rear with plain rotors. And I don't track it. I'm just not getting what you're saying here.

My adjustable cam gears on the contour. Yes I have a adjusted them. Did they add power? Heck if I know. It's a 4 banger auto contour. Who gives a crap?

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078372 (Re: hubert) 10/18/05 02:46 AM

Originally posted by hubert:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
How loud are autox pads supposed to be?
I put hawk autox pads on the front and street pads on the rear of my escort and is insanely loud when braking, though it does stop great. Just wondering if something is wrong or not?




It's perfectly normal. My pads (Cobalt Spec VRs) moan like stuck pigs when really cold and give a subtle chirp on initial application when braking after a decently long straight.



Thanks hubert.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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Kremithefrog
I have no life

Reged: 05/14/02
Posts: 21653
Loc: Albany, Georgia
Re: Wheee, Lookie here, we've got a flyin' Nun... new
#1078381 (Re: hubert) 10/18/05 02:52 AM

Originally posted by hubert:
Originally posted by SonofaNun:



My CSVT has new calipers, SS brake hoses, KVR slotted and drilled rotors w/ KVR CF pads [no shims at all], went light on the grease [cars from the factory don't have grease slopped all over everything], followed the break-in guide lines. Great stopping power and I've never had a problem with noise.




Oh wow, the great Flying Nun lecturing us all on brake dynamics and setups while running blingtastic, jantastic, boulevard pimpin' cross drilled rotors.

FFOG for you pal.




Check his sig for more ricer knowledge:

"Unlock the Power with Castrol SYNTEC"


And before anybody says anything, I know my contour is ricey (and hasn't really had a new mod done to it in close to 2 years). It's ok, it's an auto 4 banger beater. I would shoot myself if I even started in the direction of my old footsteps or sonofanun's current footsteps with a svt.

--------------------
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)

FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater

CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078518 (Re: moxnix) 10/18/05 09:16 AM

Originally posted by moxnix:
Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.




Quote:

AutoX is not the same as Track.




He's just gettin' evasive. Xcross isn't street.

Quote:

Who cares in a brake thread why he has adjustable gears or what use they are put to?




Because he's a joke...just look at his car. And he's the guy that started this thread, wondering about noise when Hawk's very own website clearly states that his HP+ pads will make noise.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078519 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/18/05 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
WTF are you talking about!? I don't have track pads on the contour. I have the mintex crap from BAT on it. This thread IS ABOUT MY ESCORT. And my escort is not a track car. I don't own a "track car".




[evasion duly noted]


Quote:

Sounds like I have track plans for my contour? Well, again I don't have a track car, and have no plans on taking my cars to any track. I have autox'd my contour a couple times and it's OK. I autox my escort regularly and it's locally competetive. But what is all this about a track?




[evasion duly noted]

I've used autocross as often as I've used track...usually in the same sentence.


Quote:

I'm not really worried with rotor wear or anything. I was just stating the fact (only because you questioned it).




No, you absolutely stated that was the main reason that you went with street pads on the rear...to save your rotors.

[quoted] There would not be a significant improve in braking with the hp+ pad in the rear. So by going with the hps pad, I save some money and rotor wear. Sorry if I confused you. [/quoted]

You just contradicted yourself.



Quote:

Just a poser? What am I posing as? Please tell me. Yeap, I put autox pads on the front and street performance pads on the rear with plain rotors. And I don't track it. I'm just not getting what you're saying here.




Just look at your riced-up, yellow painted, 4-cyl/auto signature...and you say that it's a Honda beater? LOL!!

Quote:

My adjustable cam gears on the contour. Yes I have a adjusted them. Did they add power? Heck if I know. It's a 4 banger auto contour. Who gives a crap?




Just for looks, as I expected. People that adjust them actually know why they have them and why they adjust them...and they probably don't have auto transaxles with that kind of shifter knob mod.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: Wheee, we've got YELLOW seats & heat shield!!! new
#1078522 (Re: Kremithefrog) 10/18/05 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Check his sig for more ricer knowledge:

"Unlock the Power with Castrol SYNTEC"


And before anybody says anything, I know my contour is ricey (and hasn't really had a new mod done to it in close to 2 years). It's ok, it's an auto 4 banger beater. I would shoot myself if I even started in the direction of my old footsteps or sonofanun's current footsteps with a svt.




You'd need taste and money to have my mods. Good exhaust, /////Alpine stereo system, complete KVR package, etc...nothing looks ricey, just better than stock...but you just grab up 2 cans of spray paint, scab-in 2 yellow seats w/ red harnesses and half-a** do everything else that you touch.

And you're dumb enough to suggest that Castrol Syntec is ricey? ((( eyes rollin' )))



http://www.contour.org/carprofile/carprofile.php?a=display&uid=1556

Profile for Kremithefrog

"your car is the biggest, most tasteless, piece of trash rice on this site." by jerseycat10

"well its good to see your only going for looks because your atx zetec could never be fast, i bet you'll never break into teh 16s... " by Russell

[image]http://www.contour.org/carprofile/profilepic.php?id=1397[/image]

[image]http://www.contour.org/carprofile/profilepic.php?id=1962[/image]

[image]http://www.contour.org/carprofile/profilepic.php?id=1476[/image]

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: Nice zero posting history, Hubert new
#1078528 (Re: hubert) 10/18/05 11:20 AM

Originally posted by hubert:
Originally posted by SonofaNun:



My CSVT has new calipers, SS brake hoses, KVR slotted and drilled rotors w/ KVR CF pads [no shims at all], went light on the grease [cars from the factory don't have grease slopped all over everything], followed the break-in guide lines. Great stopping power and I've never had a problem with noise.





Quote:

Oh wow, the great Flying Nun lecturing us all on brake dynamics and setups while running blingtastic, jantastic, boulevard pimpin' cross drilled rotors.




Because the biggest hissies have come from an xcross *champ* that is running SS lines with pads that can't take the heat...on stock rotors...and pad slappers that throw xcross pads on stock rotors?


Quote:

A few declerations to aver against your rampant ignorance:

1. People who run cross drilled rotors are monkeys




Chip Foose...and every single Contour owner here that buys and sells cross-drilled rotors, he didn't mean it.


Quote:

and also think of aftermarket shift knobs as a "mod."




Kremit...with his Mt Everest *knob* on his automatic shifter?

I have a B&M short throw.


Quote:

2. Anyone who doesn't defer to someone with greater experience regarding the topic at hand, you know, like someone who's talking from actually having done "it"




Like the guy that deferred to me on my point about the HPS pads and how they might fade when mixed with the HP+?


Quote:

3. Running staggered brake compounds, front to rear, cheesedick, is perfectly fine and is a common way to adjust brake bias in cars not equipped with manually adjustable proportioning valves; the utlization of compounds with different co-efficents of friction is a simple way to tune your braking force front to rear and is done ALL THE TIME by people whose brain isn't a wet noodle (read: everyone but you). Brake bias, look it up.




Read how Kremit did it for different reasons...to save money and his rear rotors...not because he was worried about brake bias tuning.

Don't put Kremit in the same class as the other x-crossers...just makes you look as if you're slurping him. Remember, he's the one that was confused about the noise after he bought and installed them, asking us, asking co-workers, asking dragon runners...even tho' Hawks very own website states that the pads will make noise.

Quote:

4. You can run a race pad in the front and a street pad in the rear just fine; I did so for years on the street and on the track and it was fine. No ill effects other than the standard added noise and dust on account of the track compound. Gasp, shock, horror ... facts ... what are you going to do, you can't run from facts, they'll find you sooner or later and burn down that Zepplin expanded to capacity with all the hot air you're spewing.




So...it's just kind of a macho wannabe thing? Yep, this baby is runnin' RACING pads on the street! Look out now!

Quote:

5. Depending on the driver's skill level, the vehicle's mass and the tires used, a high performance street pad or light duty track pad will work fine, can you guess why? Becuase the service envelope of the pads won't be exceeded by the application - care to guess? Because novice driver's aren't fast enough to beat down the equipment. I've used OEM pads in a pinch and simply adjusted my driving style, other novice track drivers go 2, 3 maybe even 4 events on OEM pads and rotors, before they need to replace them. See, there again, is that actually having been there and done it coming back to haunt you; spend less time waxing your Jantastic cross drilled rotors, and spend more time driving and you'll eventually come upon a clue. Then again, you probably won't.




I have a street set-up that looks and performs better than stock, which was already better than a Cobra of the same year...yes? Just what I wanted and just what was recommended by some of the regs here. If I wanted to xcross, I'd go with all HP+...and I wouldn't run SS lines with stock pads and rotors.

Slotted KVRs would look pretty sweet, compared to those stockers...yes? And since you can't stop blubbering about my drilled KVRs, it's because of how their pads supposedly react to the rain...we get quite a bit of rain here. You know, safety, better looks and better performance in all of the situations that they'll be in when I'm driving my CSVT.

Quote:

6. Should you open your interweb mouth again on this topic, at least try and get some conductivity between those ears before doing so, because the utter nonsense in your commentary is virtual bleeding out through the ears of goo.




Jealous much?


Quote:

Warmest Regards,
Son of a [censored].




LMAO!

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Auto-X Fil
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/11/03
Posts: 4140
Loc: Pennsylvania
Brake tech? new
#1078551 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 12:16 PM

SonofaNun, you're an idiot. Everyone who knows what's going on is laughing at you. You don't know anything about brakes or racing. This thread is about brakes, and using them on street cars that race. So why did you post?

You want to know how I knew that you have as much place here as what I left in the toilet this morning?

Let's start with your signature:

KVR Performance Rotors & Pads
"Unlock the Power with Castrol SYNTEC"

Drilled rotors are not functional. They don't work. They are a bad idea, and a waste of money. They are bling. They probably won't fail you on the street, but they will NOT stop you better that blank rotors in any way, shape, or form. no way at all. On the track they can downright dangerous, since they tend to crack at higher temps. Racecars don't use them. Track junkies don't use them. And yet:

Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Well, looks like Kremit's HPS street pads might send him into a bad situation at the track...maybe with drilled rotors on the rear...good rotors front and rear probably would get the most out of his "autocross & track" pads, but he's worried about the cost not the proper setup.





That's right, you recommended him to use drilled rotors at the track. You are a moron, and just gave someone dangerous advice. Did you know if you mix ammonia and bleach it gets your whites whiter? and like I mentioned, if you know ANYTHING about racing and high performance driving, you know Hawk. You don't. So it's pretty clear you're a newbie with no facts to back up his big mouth. You learned ten thousand times as much about brakes reading Rara's posts here than you did before CEG, I guarantee it.

And I note that you use the word track there. You see, this thread is about using pads at an autocross, yet you keep talking about the track. You say Kremit is going to the track. Then you get confused and call him a poser when he says he's not. Then you spout this off:

Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Quote:

Sounds like I have track plans for my contour? Well, again I don't have a track car, and have no plans on taking my cars to any track. I have autox'd my contour a couple times and it's OK. I autox my escort regularly and it's locally competetive. But what is all this about a track?




[evasion duly noted]

I've used autocross as often as I've used track...usually in the same sentence.





No, you used them interchangeably. This made it very clear to us that you didn't really grasp that there was a difference between the two.

That makes you even more laughable.

And more of an ass.

You're recommending someone do something for a track setup, when he's autocrossing. Let me get this through to you:

Autocross is not tracking the car. You can autocross on pads that would be bad for tracking, or pads like the HPS/HP+ that are good for track days. If you put full-out race pads on an autocross car, bad things are going to happen. They are very, very different, and the biggest differences in car setup are in the brake system. So you're giving advice about a very dangerous sport which you know nothing about.

Real nice, dickweed. Your spouting off may hurt someone someday. When a kid puts cross-drilled rotors and race pads on his car and slides through the first turn of an autocross into a corner worker, are you going to feel so proud of your little internet BS?

So I repeat: what are you doing here? You have no place answering questions and debating with the experts. Your place is to read and learn and ask questions.

So hubert shows up. You see, I showed this to some real race car drivers/builders/etc. because I thought they might enjoy a laugh. Well, I didn't think that after I so clearly refuted every little miniscule clump of puke you coughed up yesterday you'd come back for more. When hubert saw that, he couldn't help him self. He signed up and spouted off more facts. So I wouldn't pick on him for having a zero post count. You see, hubert knows his stuff. He has so much more experience than me that I'm his [censored], really. Since you're my b!tch, what does that make him to you?

And as for your personal attacks on Kremit: he has a riced-out Contour beater which never entered into this discussion until your ignorance of the topics at hand finally surfaced, as obvious as a sperm whale in a bathtub, for everyone to point and laugh.



He races an SCCA Solo II STS Escort, and hopefully he'll leave his ricer ways behind as he gets older. This is not a thread about his rice car. It's about his racecar. You know about one kind of car, and it's not the race car. Want to guess which one? Hind: you can talk shift knobs all day, because you seem to know your stuff there.


And then finally, if there was someone out there as dumb as you who hasn't realized your ignornace yet, you pull this one out of your ass:


Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Because the biggest hissies have come from an xcross *champ* that is running SS lines with pads that can't take the heat...on stock rotors...and pad slappers that throw xcross pads on stock rotors?
[...]
I have a street set-up that looks and performs better than stock. Just what I wanted and just what was recommended by some of the regs here. If I wanted to xcross, I'd go with all HP+...and I wouldn't run SS lines with stock pads and rotors.





Guess what, you illiterate mouthbreathing turdgobbler? Every time 'x' is substituted into a word it represents "cross". What the hell is "cross-cross"? It's autocross; auto-x, you ignorant crotch pheasant.

And we run STS, a class that doesn't allow rotor changes. Did you get that? We have no choice but to race with stock rotors. Mostly because... are you ready?

Stock rotors can provide excellent modulation and more than enough stopping power to exercise threshold braking, even with super-sticky STS tires. And they are more than up to the task of working with a high-torque compound like the HP* pads.

If you knew jack about brakes or x-cross (sic), you'd have known those two very important facts.

And yet, more insults. Guess what: I've had pad fade once, at the end of a very long autocross. I have a set of good pads ready to go, but I haven't bothered because my region doesn't have any courses that will fade my brakes. You see, street pads work just fine for x-cross (sic)...

Oh, never mind. You're not going to get it anyway. You're going to quote my post and cut it up into bite-sized little chunks so you can put "evasion" and other big words you don't understand in between, like a little post sandwich your mommy cut the crust of off.

Let me make completely sure you understand this before I go again:

You're an idiot. Everyone who knows what this thread is about knows it. You have wasted our time spouting off absolute rubbish and bad advice based on bullcrap marketing claims and internet hearsay. Everyone is laughing at you, and you're the only one who doesn't get it.

--------------------
-Philip Maynard
'95 Contour [71 STS | Track Whore]
'97 Miata [71 ES | Boulevard Pimp]
2006 autocross results

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: Auto-X Fil vowed to stay away from this thread new
#1078584 (Re: Auto-X Fil) 10/18/05 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
SonofaNun, you're an idiot. Everyone who knows what's going on is laughing at you. You don't know anything about brakes or racing. This thread is about brakes, and using them on street cars that race. So why did you post?




Nice fetch, monkey.

Quote:

You want to know how I knew that you have as much place here as what I left in the toilet this morning?

Let's start with your signature:

KVR Performance Rotors & Pads
"Unlock the Power with Castrol SYNTEC"

Drilled rotors are not functional. They don't work. They are a bad idea, and a waste of money. They are bling. They probably won't fail you on the street, but they will NOT stop you better that blank rotors in any way, shape, or form. no way at all.




Even in the rain, tiger?

Quote:

On the track they can downright dangerous, since they tend to crack at higher temps. Racecars don't use them. Track junkies don't use them. And yet:




Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Well, looks like Kremit's HPS street pads might send him into a bad situation at the track...maybe with drilled rotors on the rear...good rotors front and rear probably would get the most out of his "autocross & track" pads, but he's worried about the cost not the proper setup.





I explained that already, and you know it. YOU are the one that said Kremit's rear pads might tend to fade...so, aGAIN...with his set-up, you wanted me to suggest slotted rotors so they could fade just that much quicker? d'OH!

Quote:

That's right, you recommended him to use drilled rotors at the track.




[evasion duly noted]

Quote:

You are a moron, and just gave someone dangerous advice.




You're just getting waaaaaaaaaay too overly emotional over this.


Quote:

Did you know if you mix ammonia and bleach it gets your whites whiter? and like I mentioned, if you know ANYTHING about racing and high performance driving, you know Hawk.




That's why Kremit was SO confused about the noise when the pads are made to make noise...or you?...when your very first reply suggested that it was the fault of Kremit maybe not doing the job right? Never did you say it was normal for that pad to make noise.

Quote:

You don't. So it's pretty clear you're a newbie with no facts to back up his big mouth. You learned ten thousand times as much about brakes reading Rara's posts here than you did before CEG, I guarantee it.




I just learned, like always, that tennis court/Wal-mart lot xcross champs like you never come off as Master teaching the pupil, it always comes off as super-froth attempt to b*tch, slap, and scratch.

Quote:

And I note that you use the word track there. You see, this thread is about using pads at an autocross, yet you keep talking about the track. You say Kremit is going to the track. Then you get confused and call him a poser when he says he's not.




Because it's called an autocross *track* or *course*...never an autocross tennis court, parking lot, drainage ditch, etc?

Quote:

Then you spout this off:

Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Quote:

Sounds like I have track plans for my contour? Well, again I don't have a track car, and have no plans on taking my cars to any track. I have autox'd my contour a couple times and it's OK. I autox my escort regularly and it's locally competetive. But what is all this about a track?




[evasion duly noted]

I've used autocross as often as I've used track...usually in the same sentence.





No, you used them interchangeably. This made it very clear to us that you didn't really grasp that there was a difference between the two.




No, you're just trying to play with the words to find a way out.


Quote:

That makes you even more laughable.

And more of an ass.

You're recommending someone do something for a track setup, when he's autocrossing. Let me get this through to you:

Autocross is not tracking the car. You can autocross on pads that would be bad for tracking, or pads like the HPS/HP+ that are good for track days. If you put full-out race pads on an autocross car, bad things are going to happen. They are very, very different, and the biggest differences in car setup are in the brake system. So you're giving advice about a very dangerous sport which you know nothing about.




Nice kook rant.


Quote:

Real nice, dickweed. Your spouting off may hurt someone someday. When a kid puts cross-drilled rotors and race pads on his car and slides through the first turn of an autocross into a corner worker, are you going to feel so proud of your little internet BS?




You're projecting.

Quote:

So I repeat: what are you doing here?




You left this thread for good...remember?

Quote:

You have no place answering questions and debating with the experts. Your place is to read and learn and ask questions.




I started this all with the jaw-dropping notion that it would be best to run all HPS for the street, or all HP+ if you're going to be using them on race-day...and you're the one that confirmed that the HPS pads might fade before the HP+ pads...so that's a safety issue worth thinking about, I feel...but I always try to do it right or not do it at all.


Quote:

So hubert shows up. You see




With a zero posting history.


Quote:

I showed this to some real race car drivers/builders/etc. because I thought they might enjoy a laugh. Well, I didn't think that after I so clearly refuted every little miniscule clump of puke you coughed up yesterday you'd come back for more.




You vowed to leave this thread, with others looking on, but you return. Why?


Quote:

When hubert saw that, he couldn't help him self. He signed up and spouted off more facts. So I wouldn't pick on him for having a zero post count. You see, hubert knows his stuff. He has so much more experience than me that I'm his [censored], really. Since you're my b!tch, what does that make him to you?




Thought you were too busy this week. Nice work, pawn.


Quote:

And as for your personal attacks on Kremit:




I get it personal...***after*** others go there first.


Quote:

he has a riced-out Contour




And he has the nerve to say that my Syntec oil changes are ricey?


Quote:

He races an SCCA Solo II STS Escort, and hopefully he'll leave his ricer ways behind as he gets older.




And worry more about performance instead of cutting corners?

Quote:

This is not a thread about his rice car. It's about his racecar. You know about one kind of car, and it's not the race car. Want to guess which one? Hind: you can talk shift knobs all day




It'll be a big leap from Kremit's painted heat shields, shift knobs, yellow grill, wipers and seats to a good well thought out race car. I sure hope he makes it.


Quote:

And then finally, if there was someone out there as dumb as you who hasn't realized your ignornace yet, you pull this one out of your ass:


Originally posted by SonofaNun:

Because the biggest hissies have come from an xcross *champ* that is running SS lines with pads that can't take the heat...on stock rotors...and pad slappers that throw xcross pads on stock rotors?
[...]
I have a street set-up that looks and performs better than stock. Just what I wanted and just what was recommended by some of the regs here. If I wanted to xcross, I'd go with all HP+...and I wouldn't run SS lines with stock pads and rotors.





Guess what, you illiterate mouthbreathing turdgobbler? Every time 'x' is substituted into a word it represents "cross". What the hell is "cross-cross"? It's autocross; auto-x, you ignorant crotch pheasant.

And we run STS, a class that doesn't allow rotor changes. Did you get that? We have no choice but to race with stock rotors. Mostly because... are you ready?

Stock rotors can provide excellent modulation and more than enough stopping power to exercise threshold braking, even with super-sticky STS tires. And they are more than up to the task of working with a high-torque compound like the HP* pads.

If you knew jack about brakes or x-cross (sic), you'd have known those two very important facts.

And yet, more insults. Guess what: I've had pad fade once, at the end of a very long autocross. I have a set of good pads ready to go, but I haven't bothered because my region doesn't have any courses that will fade my brakes. You see, street pads work just fine for x-cross (sic)...

Oh, never mind. You're not going to get it anyway. You're going to quote my post and cut it up into bite-sized little chunks so you can put "evasion" and other big words you don't understand in between, like a little post sandwich your mommy cut the crust of off.

Let me make completely sure you understand this before I go again:




With "again" being the key word.

Quote:

You're an idiot. Everyone who knows what this thread is about knows it. You have wasted our time spouting off absolute rubbish and bad advice based on bullcrap marketing claims and internet hearsay. Everyone is laughing at you, and you're the only one who doesn't get it.




I'm laughing at you...and that probably goes for everybody that doesn't get your need to foam and froth over something like this.

BTW In case you missed it, HAWK expert, again, you were trying to make Kremit do his job over or make him at least worry about his installation, when all you were supposed to say is: Don't worry, it's normal, like others did on this thread, ones that haven't given your kind of outbursts?

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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moxnix
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 07/20/00
Posts: 2100
Loc: VA
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078591 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 01:24 PM

Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by moxnix:
AutoX is not the same as Track.



He's just gettin' evasive. Xcross isn't street.




He has never mentioned track except when you brought it up. As an AutoX/street mix those 2 different pads are fine. He has them more for AutoX but will also be using them on the street.

The only time you have mentioned AutoX before you were told that was all he did other than street with them was when you called them AutoX and Track pads. You said nothing about him using them for AutoX just that he was tracking the car.

Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by moxnix:
Who cares in a brake thread why he has adjustable gears or what use they are put to?




Because he's a joke...just look at his car. And he's the guy that started this thread, wondering about noise when Hawk's very own website clearly states that his HP+ pads will make noise.




There is a difference between knowing that the pads are going to make noise and actaully hearing the noise from them. When I first heard the noise from those type of pads I thought something was wrong with the brakes but I remembered that they make noise and did some research and found those types of noises are normal so I have no problems with somebody asking if those noises are the type of noise that you get from AutoX pads.

He has said many times in the past that he knows the contour is ricey and that he regrets some of the mods on it so I as well as many others on here are willing to let that stay in the past and move forward from there and answer serious questions that he may have.

Maybe you think everybody that does AutoX should use rotors like this?


--------------------
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends

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Stazi
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 11/18/00
Posts: 10015
Loc: The land of Vegemite and Foster's (Actually Livonia, MI)
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078615 (Re: moxnix) 10/18/05 01:44 PM

That's just ridiculous!

--------------------
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!

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SonofaNun
CEG'er

Reged: 07/27/04
Posts: 93
Loc: MeanGreen2 [took ya'll long enough LOL]
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078633 (Re: moxnix) 10/18/05 01:59 PM

Originally posted by moxnix:
Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by moxnix:
AutoX is not the same as Track.



He's just gettin' evasive. Xcross isn't street.




He has never mentioned track except when you brought it up. As an AutoX/street mix those 2 different pads are fine. He has them more for AutoX but will also be using them on the street.

The only time you have mentioned AutoX before you were told that was all he did other than street with them was when you called them AutoX and Track pads.




As does HAWK

http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/

Why?


Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by moxnix:
Who cares in a brake thread why he has adjustable gears or what use they are put to?




Because he's a joke...just look at his car. And he's the guy that started this thread, wondering about noise when Hawk's very own website clearly states that his HP+ pads will make noise.




There is a difference between knowing that the pads are going to make noise and actaully hearing the noise from them. When I first heard the noise from those type of pads I thought something was wrong with the brakes but I remembered that they make noise and did some research and found those types of noises are normal so I have no problems with somebody asking if those noises are the type of noise that you get from AutoX pads.




Hawk's very own website clearly states that his HP+ pads will make noise.


Quote:

He has said many times in the past that he knows the contour is ricey and that he regrets some of the mods on it so I as well as many others on here are willing to let that stay in the past and move forward from there and answer serious questions that he may have.




I'll leave it in the past just as soon as he stops trying to pretend that my oil and my mods turned my CSVT into the rice crap that he's worked so hard at creating.

Quote:

Maybe you think everybody that does AutoX should use rotors like this?





You're projecting.

--------------------
2000 CSVT

Bosal
KVR Pads & Rotors
B&M Shifter
/////Alpine System

KVR Carbon Fibre Pads feature:
Street Performance
Less Fade
No Warm-up
Low dusting
Kevlar insulated
Rotor friendly CF Weave
Integrally molded

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Hdbngr8
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 540
Loc: At a baseball game....somewhere
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078645 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 02:10 PM

Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Yes HP plus and HPS in the rear. I just said autox because hawk says that's what they're good for, and just to say it's a performance pad for anyone not familiar with the hawk line.

I don't really mind the noise, just wanted to make sure it's ok.




I don't know about mixing *track* pads on one axle w/ *street* pads on the other. Seems like they're be a conflict there. I'd go with all Plus or all HPS, depending on your needs. Anyway, took a quick look at Hawk's site. I've never heard of them, but I wouldn't mind trying out some of those HPS for myself.




Kremit, don't worry about mixing pads. I take my car to on-TRACK events, and I use TRACK pads on the front and STREET pads on the rear. Why? Because the rears don't do a damn thing on my car - the fronts are doing all the work. And I hope to God you don't even think about drilled rotors.

--------------------
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me

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weargle
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 03/06/03
Posts: 751
Loc: Morrisville, NC
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078652 (Re: Hdbngr8) 10/18/05 02:14 PM

SonofaNun, you pick one picture out of teh whole intarweb, and now you're an expert on autocross and brakes? You truly are a semen gargling ankle grabbing taint licker of the highest degree.

--------------------
Whirling dervish of FFOG.

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Hdbngr8
Veteran CEG'er

Reged: 04/30/04
Posts: 540
Loc: At a baseball game....somewhere
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078653 (Re: weargle) 10/18/05 02:15 PM

He reminds me of meangreen

--------------------
'98 SVT Red/midnight blue - a few mods
E0 wheels for sale - PM me

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Big Jim
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/03/00
Posts: 4693
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California, USA
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078656 (Re: moxnix) 10/18/05 02:16 PM

Wow. Swiss cheese brakes. Or maybe they are just cheesy brakes. I like the duct tape lower spring perches. It probably works about as well as the brake rotors.

Hey guys, some of you must have too much time on your hands or you need new hobbies.





--------------------
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited

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Andy W.Moderator
b0x @dm1n

Reged: 07/19/00
Posts: 4397
Loc: Columbia, MD
Re: autox pad noise new
#1078662 (Re: SonofaNun) 10/18/05 02:21 PM

This is done!

SonofaNun, you need to read more and talk less.

Your so called awesome KVR "setup" isn't all that special. The pads are hard as rocks and scary on cold mornings. I know, I had them. KVR rotors are just OEM blanks drilled, slotted, and label KVR. If you've read any of the stickies you might learn a thing or two. I'd take Bendix Ceramics and high quality blanks any day over your setup, in fact I do.

Just cause you bought a name doesn't make you an expert.

-Andy

--------------------
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


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