Contour Enthusiasts Group CEG

Modifications >> 3.0L Duratec

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SleeperZ
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 04/16/02
Posts: 2483
Loc: near Tacoma, WA
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#386509 (Re: svttour) 08/24/03 03:58 AM

Perfect timing on this topic....
I'm swapping to 19# (SVT) injectors from the stock 16# (Zetec) injectors (not enough fuel above 5.5k when on nitrous).
I am planning on using "MAF trickery" to compensate for the larger injectors, and since I already run lean between 800 (idle) and 1200 rpms (side effect of chip) the extra fuel shouldn't really hurt idle too much.

Good idea?

This is a temp fix until I can get to the dyno and get the chip reburnt (cam & cam gear tune).

--------------------
Frank McCoy aka Mod-deth aka Mid Life Crisis aka SVT Doood aka mcgainer is a SCAM ARTIST

Pre98 Zetec - Some Mods

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RaraAdministrator
"Absolut Rara."

Reged: 09/09/00
Posts: 3223
Loc: Westland, MI
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#390415 (Re: SleeperZ) 08/28/03 03:32 PM

Couple of quick comments about the tweecer.

1. Base tweecer currently costs ~$350 Tweecer RT currently costs ~$550.

2. Tweecer currently only works on the XGT1 computer (late 99 and 00 SVT computer) and isn't even officially supported. Further, the RT functions (data logging) are not supported currently for any of the EEC-V computers, but should be by the next software update for the tweecer.

3. The Tweecer is VERY powerful in what you can change in your engine calibration, and should not be used by those that are impatient, or unknowledgable in general engine tuning concepts. If you do somehting dumb with a tweecer, you can completely destroy your engine, and it will be no one's fault but your own.



Thanks to Tom for putting this stuff together for the group. I didn't get a chance to read through it all, but what I did read looks pretty decent. Though, IMHO, MAF trickery is a kludge and shouldn't be used, ever.

--------------------
Balance is the Key.

rarasvt@comcast.net

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cvkillacontour98
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 12/21/02
Posts: 1049
Loc: kissimmee, florida
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#487872 (Re: Rara) 12/26/03 05:57 AM

doesnt the o2 sensor let the ecu know the car is running rich or lean and correct the pulse width.thsi is my first ford most of the cars i had used cc instead of lbs per hour. im guessing toyota and ford fuel injection are different. from what i was told with toyotas going to big just caused a rich idle cause the pulse width could only be so short and full throttle put it in to closed loop wich ran it in a preprogrammed mode as if the stock injectors were in. liek on my odl mr2 it came with 185cc injectors and i switched them to 250cc injectors from a 2.0 and the mr2 had a 1.6. the car idled and ran real good but was a little rich at wide open throttle. soem peopel had tried 290cc injectors from a 3.0 non turbo supra but had a realy rich idle and real rich at wide open throttle. usually playing with the afm spring coudl adjust teh a\f ratio a bit. loosen it for richer and tighten it for leaner.

--------------------
98 contour s.e. sport mtx
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/503352

all mods shown on page



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unisys12
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/08/02
Posts: 3944
Loc: Corinth, MS
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#499281 (Re: cvkillacontour98) 01/11/04 03:02 PM

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
doesnt the o2 sensor let the ecu know the car is running rich or lean and correct the pulse width.




But remember, Tom stated that when you have that hugh difference (41%) in injector size, this puts the computer outside of it's learning curve. So the computer would not be able to compensate for it no matter what inputs it got. Yes it would try, but it would not be able to a satisfactory level. Hince all the information above.

I must say, I don't come in here much. Sort of like the GB Forum, it just depresses me. But I must say that I really enjoyed this great thread. Great work & great reading!!

--------------------
Phillip Jackson
`98 Mystique LS
262K+ and counting...
ATX rebuilt @ 151K

"This storm has broken me, my only friend!" RIP Dime

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gasmaster
New CEG'er

Reged: 07/16/01
Posts: 11
Loc: Freeman, MO
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#523527 (Re: warmonger) 02/06/04 05:13 PM

The physical process of the building the 3.0L hybrid in the SVT seems to be relatively straight forward. However, the hardware to change certain control parameters like injector pulse width, etc. is a gray area for me. I logged onto Tweecer and Greddy and I couldn't tell what product to use or any idea of how to use in it in recalibrating the controls for power and driveability. More info and explaination if you would please.

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warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#524032 (Re: gasmaster) 02/07/04 03:23 AM

Originally posted by gasmaster:
The physical process of the building the 3.0L hybrid in the SVT seems to be relatively straight forward. However, the hardware to change certain control parameters like injector pulse width, etc. is a gray area for me. I logged onto Tweecer and Greddy and I couldn't tell what product to use or any idea of how to use in it in recalibrating the controls for power and driveability. More info and explaination if you would please.




What, the 20 page dissertation not enough for you?

This isn't a thread intended for idle chitchat. Better that you start a separate thread if you want to talk about some specifics so that we can keep this a knowledge-based FAQ type of thread and spare the readers.

--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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gasmaster
New CEG'er

Reged: 07/16/01
Posts: 11
Loc: Freeman, MO
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#525383 (Re: warmonger) 02/09/04 01:15 AM

I came to the forum to ask questions because I thought I could get help from those who have already learned some lessons thru trial and error. Changing programming is nothing to take lightly especially and there aren't a lot of vendors out there waiting with baited breath to serve Contour owners. This is my first project with electronic engine controls. I've done dozens of carburated builds so I'm no rookie to building engines. Just trying to save myself some time and money in figuring it out myself. If you don't want to help, just say so! No need to be rude! I had questions about the 3.0L hybrid and I asked them in the 3.0L section and if you published a 20 page dissertation about reprogramming a PCM and the hardware to do it then I missed it.

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DemonSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/13/00
Posts: 9602
Loc: KC, MO
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must read! new
#525483 (Re: gasmaster) 02/09/04 03:15 AM

Start your own thread!

DO NOT ask question in an information thread (sticky) that is specifically about MAF & Injector sizing.

This thread was intended for only posting information about that particular topic and not asking unrelated questions.

Is it really that hard to comprehend???

BTW - DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION IN THIS THREAD - START A NEW ONE!!!

~~~~


Back on topic.


I was lucky to get a Pro-M MAF that is not only well calibrated but very stable and consistent in it's delivery of input signals to the PCM.
Though using the stock MAF is a good choice for the power levels any NA engine is capable of.


Also it is a good thing I could easily change the high & low slope in the PCM when I changed to the 24lb injectors. (Using a MAF to change injector size by "fooling" the PCM is not the proper way to do it at all!)

I increased the low slope setting in comparison to the high slope setting to help shorten the low rpm, light load, and idle pulse width and keep excellent drivability.

Though if I needed to I could just have shortened the minimum pulse width limit in the PCM calibration too I suppose.
However the way I did it actually improved my fuel mileage in cruising and light load situations.

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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giddyup306
CEG'er

Reged: 12/06/04
Posts: 197
Loc: Highly Modified
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must re new
#1135985 (Re: warmonger) 12/31/05 05:19 AM

Originally posted by warmonger:


1. Send your pcm in to the chip maker to have them read the code.





Tom,


Can you just tell someone like ADC the calibration code and go from there?


BTW I've been trying to send you some PMs but I don't think any got through. I've been having problems with this site lately.

Can you send me an email to

unchained1984@bluebottle.com?

Mike

--------------------
The ONLY 96 (engine) 3L
Build 'em fast. Spray 'em faster.
ricehatersclub.com

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MapOfTaziFoSho
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/01/02
Posts: 9065
Loc: The E.L.
Re: MAF/Injector sizing for your hybrids...must re new
#1197950 (Re: giddyup306) 03/22/06 08:05 PM

I think we should have an update here for the Xcal2 and the PRP from Brenspeed.

http://www.brenspeed.com/

--------------------
Born again on 04/09/06
FOR SALE:
Moonroof glass and motor MB sunshade
PM ME!


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