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Modifications >> 3.0L Duratec

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warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
Re: Piston durability new
#430265 (Re: Travis) 10/14/03 11:40 PM

My engine in N/A form used to run 800 Celsius at 6700 rpm! This was after it was dyno tuned into the correct 12.5:1 A/F at 6700 rpm. I ran it a bit leaner in the lower rpm range but as it got up in rpm the temp still would climb. These engines just run hotter and they are made of more advanced materials than the average ford pushrod motors.
Turbo Tom's zetec is turbo so he is probably using fuel to keep the mixture cooler.
I try to run 12:1 or 12.5:1 with my turbo unit right now.
The only modifications that most of these people have made to their motors is boost. Some cracked pistons without having a dyno tune, like me.
-The hand porting jobs can be hit or miss I agree.
-BTW, I used the same tuning before and after the intercooler on my car. BEFORE I put on the intercooler I cracked two pistons. I put new pistons in the motor and then carefully drove it to the dyno in AZ to get the intercooler fitted and dyno'd with A/F.
The very first run with the intercooler on it and THE EXACT SAME A/F curve as previously when I cracked the pistons!! I put down 300 wHP and the A/F was 12.5:1

Therefore, the problem was in high combustion pressures/temps and possible that threw the A/F off enough along with the excess heat to make light detonation or it was just plain too much pressure.

Since then I have been running 50% more boost and no problems that I know of.

All your points are good except that:
1. Duratecs in good tune run high combustion temps.
2. The 99 and earlier pistons are definitely a weaker design...we have the pictures of the two types of pistons to prove it.



--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Travis
CEG'er

Reged: 10/14/03
Posts: 283
Re: Piston durability new
#430399 (Re: warmonger) 10/15/03 01:28 AM

Well is there anyway you could give me some specs on these engines? I dont have one or id figure it out myself. Im looking for a replacement for my zetec. Kinda figuring out what i want. It detonated the diffrential and while the tranny was on the floor i decided to upgrade engines while i was at it. So while im figuring my choice thought id learn about there weaknesses and this was a good place to start.

SO if youv got like a big data sheet on compression ratio`s valve sizes port flow data and everything else i could figure out what i could figure out and see if any of it could help you all find the solution.

--------------------
Ex-cat cams dealer. Today we do motor mounts.. Tommorow. Intake manifolds

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DeltarMN
CEG'er

Reged: 10/02/03
Posts: 134
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Piston durability new
#668297 (Re: warmonger) 07/20/04 12:05 AM

Question for you all. Would I run into this problem if I have replaced my Rods and Pistons with Forged ones?

--------------------
Midwest Duratec

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Roz 1999 SVT-C
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 11/13/02
Posts: 3506
Loc: San jose, Ca
Re: Piston durability new
#668339 (Re: DeltarMN) 07/20/04 12:46 AM

Most likly not...You may encounter this if you use an OE replacment aftermarket brand.


Lupe

--------------------
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles

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stilov
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/20/03
Posts: 2097
Loc: CO
Re: Piston durability new
#672419 (Re: Roz 1999 SVT-C) 07/24/04 02:19 PM

Hey what psi were you guys running and for how long before the pistons broke? Did you have the turbo for a while or just after it was running?

--------------------
98 E0 SVT with some stuff


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DemonSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/13/00
Posts: 9602
Loc: KC, MO
Re: Piston durability new
#672803 (Re: stilov) 07/25/04 04:52 AM

The non-revised pistons are not suitable for boost.

It is really that simple.

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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BiggsvT28
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/30/02
Posts: 2387
Loc: Schaumburg, Il
Re: Piston durability new
#673608 (Re: DemonSVT) 07/26/04 03:28 PM

I have maintained 8 psi for about 12,000 miles on a 98 with no problems.

--------------------
98 3.0 svt: Sold

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DeltarMN
CEG'er

Reged: 10/02/03
Posts: 134
Loc: Minnesota
Re: Piston durability new
#674406 (Re: BiggsvT28) 07/27/04 07:40 AM

So a late model 3.0L duratec (production date 6/99) would have the thiker thing and in theory should be okay?

--------------------
Midwest Duratec

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warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
Re: Piston durability new
#674437 (Re: BiggsvT28) 07/27/04 10:58 AM

Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
I have maintained 8 psi for about 12,000 miles on a 98 with no problems.




Then consider yourself lucky. I have pictures of broken ring lands from a cougar, a 3L (my own) and two 98 SVT's.


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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DemonSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/13/00
Posts: 9602
Loc: KC, MO
Re: Piston durability new
#674725 (Re: DeltarMN) 07/27/04 05:01 PM

Originally posted by DeltarMN:
So a late model 3.0L duratec (production date 6/99) would have the thiker thing and in theory should be okay?



I don't think so.

The 3L did not get the revised pistons until early in the 2000 model year. Though 2000 seems to be the bastard year for the 3L.

Pistons changed, heads/intakes changed, some had coil on plug, some had a combonation of parts. (clearing out the parts bins I guess??? )


Ideally a 2001+ oval port 3L is the best choice for any 3L build.
More "ideally" yet would be it's from an Escape/Tribute. (upgraded oil pan, pickup, P/S pump & pulley, new front cover, etc)

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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